Mail Order Abortion

[Howl]

This will drive the extreme anti-abortion faction crazy.   I live in a state that has restricted abortion access to a great degree and has tried forever to give a death blow to Planned Parenthood.  My state gave a multi-million dollar grant to the anti-abortion Heidi Group, to provide women's health and reproductive services.  Heidi Group provided these services to a tiny percentage of the women they claimed they would serve (a few thousand vs 50,000) and finally got kicked to the curb last week.   The whinged and whined about how they were new to this whole thing, but of course their original proposal convinced a lot of people they were ready to go.  An epic tax-payer rip off and a political sop to Texas religious conservatives. But, as we all know, your can't give too much state money to an incompetent entity to keep religious conservatives happy. 

Heidi Group Heave-Hoed State finally kicks incompetent anti-choice health provider to the curb

But, I digress.  Back to the topic at hand. 

Women in the U.S. Can Now Get Safe Abortions by Mail  The founder of a global abortion-pill provider that has never shipped to the U.S. has quietly started a new service for Americans.

There is a LOT of information about how the pills work and that they are very safe, although they are much more effective and are recommended only for pregnancies up to 9 weeks. 

Currently, the FDA allows drugs to be imported from international sources for personal use and this is how individuals will be a able to access them. 

I'm convinced there will be at least some right-to-life women ordering these pills and having "miscarriages." 

[Duggarite]

As a foreigner, I find it really odd and sad that women in the USA have to use this. Seriously. I live in a Catholic country and abortion is legal. Up to 12 weeks without any kind of reason, after that in fetus with congenital diseases, maternal danger and rape up to 22 weeks. Historical catholic country, legal abortion. Women in the USA, the paramount of freedom, having mail order abortions. 

[Cartmann99]

From the second article that @Howl posted:

Quote

In an email, Kristan Hawkins, the president of Students for Life of America, criticized this service as unsafe for women. “Handing out deadly drugs through the mail is a disaster waiting to happen,” she said. “Women later in pregnancy or women experiencing an ectopic pregnancy in particular are in great risk—two things that must be determined by examination and not by some online questionnaire.”

When I asked whether Students for Life and other anti-abortion groups would try to shut down Aid Access and similar organizations, she said, “The pro-life movement will absolutely be committed to preventing this dangerous business from harming American women.”

Catherine Glenn Foster, the president of Americans United for Life, wrote that the organization “is exploring the possibility of Congressional intervention to protect women.”

 I'll never believe that Kristan or Catherine actually care about the health of women.

[Howl]

Quote

Kristan Hawkins, the president of Students for Life of America, criticized this service as unsafe for women. “Handing out deadly drugs through the mail is a disaster waiting to happen,” she said.

Women forced to seek unsafe illegal abortions is a disaster.  These women have zero concern for women, women's health, and especially, women who have given birth and must continue to make their way in life with zero support.  It's hypocrisy of the highest order.  

My sense about the Heidi Group referenced in my initial post?  They never really wanted to provide contraceptives, because at least some of those people probably don't believe in using birth control/contraceptives or believe incorrectly, due to profound ignorance, that many forms of birth control are abortifacients.  I can think of no other reason to waste millions of dollars to provide assistance to only a few thousand women, when your stated target was serving 50,000 women.

[Cartmann99]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

These women have zero concern for women, women's health, and especially, women who have given birth and must continue to make their way in life with zero support.  It's hypocrisy of the highest order.  

 This women aren't interested in taking constructive action to solve these problems, they just want to show off their pretty dresses while riding around on their moral high horses. 

[dramallama]

At this point, for many women in wide swaths of the US, there is little practical difference between today and times pre-Roe. What good is a right if there are so many hurdles that you realistically can't exercise it? TRAP laws have resulted in many clinic closures, providers are dwindling due to a combination of lack of easy access to training and fear of retaliation from protestors ranging from their homes being picketed up to being bombed or shot, and waiting periods if you live far from a clinic (some states are down to 1 clinic) requiring multiple days off of work and travel/lodging expenses, nevermind the cost of the procedure itself have all combined to make it exceedingly difficult for women living in poverty or paycheck to paycheck in conservative states to realistically access abortion care.  I'm glad this will be an option.  I hope the inevitable government crackdown won't be successful at stopping it.

[klein_roeschen]

Neither Misoprostol nor Mifepriston are deathly. But inserting a coathanger trough your vagina into your uterus or drinking turpentine and other homemade concoctions out of sheer desperation is dangerous and often deathly. On the homepage of the Vienna museum for abortion and birthcontrol you can find a good library on articles and books, some historic from the 19th century, on abortion, some in english and some very detailed about the methods they used. http://bib.muvs.org/lib/alle-kategorien/abbruch/englisch

[treemom]

Watching my country revert to the days of hangers has been horrifying. I look at young women like I was and I wonder what will happen to them?

[Briefly]

2 hours ago, klein_roeschen said:

Neither Misoprostol nor Mifepriston are deathly. But inserting a coathanger trough your vagina into your uterus or drinking turpentine and other homemade concoctions out of sheer desperation is dangerous and often deathly. On the homepage of the Vienna museum for abortion and birthcontrol you can find a good library on articles and books, some historic from the 19th century, on abortion, some in english and some very detailed about the methods they used. http://bib.muvs.org/lib/alle-kategorien/abbruch/englisch

I was going to say basically the same thing.  I really think that we are on the way back to that.  It's terrifying.  I may not like the idea of abortion, but I do think it should be legal and available.  Making it illegal does not stop it.  It just drives it underground.

[Duggarite]

On 10/22/2018 at 12:11 AM, Briefly said:

I was going to say basically the same thing.  I really think that we are on the way back to that.  It's terrifying.  I may not like the idea of abortion, but I do think it should be legal and available.  Making it illegal does not stop it.  It just drives it underground.

This is SO true. I have only been pregnant once and the result is a healthy four year old. I think that using contraceptive methods is the best option for birth control, and I have used them all my adult life except when I wanted to get pregnant (two months). I am not at risk of needing an abortion any time soon, but I also think that it should be available to every woman. Contraceptive methods fail, fetuses can be profoundly sick, rape is much more common than we all like to think, and some people sometimes will have unprotected sex. Whatever the reason, abortion should be legal, preferably free. The option of making a woman endure a pregnancy, childbirth and worse case scenario a life looking after a child she did not want is torture. Pregnancy is hard, childbirth is hard, lots of women die from pregnancy and childbirth every year, it is a dangerous situation, obviously much better in rich countries with good healthcare facilities, but still. I had HELLP syndrome out of the blue, on an otherwise healthy pregnancy, it was really dangerous and scary and I can only tell the story because I had a great team of highly trained professionals that helped me stay alive. I wanted to be pregnant, thinking someone could be in my position without wanting to be pregnant in the first place is just horrifying. 

 

[cindyluvs24]

I think these anti abortion people have some very Freudian issues with sex, the idea of other people having sex, and the idea of other people having sex that does not conform to certain "rules."  Taking away abortion and contraception is meant to punish the women and girls having the sex.  I've never heard of any of these right wingers propose asking for ID or parental consent before a boy buys condoms.  If "boys will be boys" but girls shouldn't, then who the hell are the guys gonna fu@!$&  ?

[cindyluvs24]

And they seem to think abortion didn't exist in the USA before 1970.   My mother's friends are all in their mid-seventies now.  My MIL would be 94.  They often spoke of the pre-Roe days if the topic came up.  If you had money,  you or your daughter could go to Puerto Rico or Mexico for a quick weekend holiday.  If your husband or father had connections, you could get the 2 doctors to sign the certificate that it was necessary for your health and go to your local hospital where it was nice and clean and safe.  If you didn't have either of these things, you took your chances and went to certain neighborhoods where there was a woman who would do these things.  

My mother went to college in Boston in the early 60's.  Apparently, there were enough girls "getting into trouble" and going into Roxbury "to get fixed up."  Every semester there would be at least one girl who "got sick" and ended up in the hospital with some unnamed illness.  

My MIL grew up in a neighborhood of 1st generation immigrants during the Great Depression.  Women routinely died.

[Hane]

I am all about bodily autonomy, but am one of those women for whom hormonal BC was a bad fit. I worry about the side effects a girl or woman might suffer from taking Plan B or medical abortion pills without the support/attention of a medical professional.  And I know that girls and women in certain areas would have no alternative but to use them, with or without medical care.

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, Hane said:

I am all about bodily autonomy, but am one of those women for whom hormonal BC was a bad fit. I worry about the side effects a girl or woman might suffer from taking Plan B or medical abortion pills without the support/attention of a medical professional.  And I know that girls and women in certain areas would have no alternative but to use them, with or without medical care.

As far as I've been able to discover, serious risks from using Plan B are vanishingly rare. I haven't been able to find documentation of a single death from Plan B, ever.  

Even RU-486 (abortion pill) only showed 22 deaths over a span of over 16 years. Everything I read says that it's just as safe or safer than surgical abortion. Giving birth is about 14 times more deadly. It is not (legally) given without the support/attention of a medical professional. You must go to a doctor or clinic to get it, and you return for a follow-up. Yes, you are going through much of the process at home, but hospitals kick you out fast even after major surgery, so this is no different in my mind. You can get an infection or start bleeding heavily while home after surgery as well (iirc, infection is the main cause of death with the abortion pill).   

You have to be on the lookout for side effects after any procedure, and seek help if you have them. One of the well-publicized deaths was that of Holly Patterson in 2003. According to the information available, she went to the ER shortly after taking it with extreme cramps and bleeding. They gave her painkillers and sent her home; she returned to the ER a couple of days later and died from a massive infection. If this is accurate, and Holly told them she took the abortion pill, then it's likely the ER dropped the ball. 

And, as with any medical procedure, you can do everything right and still die or have serious side effects. It sucks and it's tragic, but Plan B and RU-486 are quite safe as far as medical treatments go. 

This got longer than intended, lol. I was just using your post as a jumping off point. I definitely agree that people should not be forced into using the abortion pill bc it's so hard to get a surgical abortion. 

 

[Briefly]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

This got longer than intended, lol. I was just using your post as a jumping off point. I definitely agree that people should not be forced into using the abortion pill bc it's so hard to get a surgical abortion. 

 

The other thing about the abortion pill is that it's not an easy process.  From what I have read, it's very hard on the woman's body and isn't instantaneous.  I would be worried about infection caused if the fetus does not totally get expelled, if there is anything still in her uterus.  If abortion is not legal, along with "back alley" abortion being dangerous, there are still serious risks with the pill if she doesn't have access to a doctor if it doesn't work right.  I'm not wording this well, I'm trying to express a real fear of the risks to women's health and lives if it's made illegal.

[katilac]

2 minutes ago, Briefly said:

The other thing about the abortion pill is that it's not an easy process.  From what I have read, it's very hard on the woman's body and isn't instantaneous.  I would be worried about infection caused if the fetus does not totally get expelled, if there is anything still in her uterus.  If abortion is not legal, along with "back alley" abortion being dangerous, there are still serious risks with the pill if she doesn't have access to a doctor if it doesn't work right.  I'm not wording this well, I'm trying to express a real fear of the risks to women's health and lives if it's made illegal.

I agree, people should have choices. Infection is one of the top issues with abortion via pill. You are meant to go for a follow-up and of course go in or call before if you have fever or other issues. This isn't always done, but on the whole the same can be said for many procedures.

What's fucked up is that a teen or young adult is much less likely to speak up if they have complications if their parents are strongly anti-abortion. If they're afraid to wake up mom and dad at 2 am because they don't want to risk them learning they took the abortion pill, that can let an infection sink in and increase the chances of dying. 

So many parents go absolutely nuts over the fact that minors can get birth control or even an abortion without getting permission or even letting them know.  They don't see it as a topic of discussion, the kid should do as the parents believe. 

About a dozen states don't require ANY parental involvement to get an abortion. Some require that one parent give permission, only three require both parents, and some don't require parental permission but do require that a parent be informed.  A Supreme Court ruling states that a minor can get judicial bypass for any of these requirements. In a couple of states, a doctor can excuse this requirement (not the abortion doctor, another one), which is probably a bit easier. And many use fake IDs, I'm sure. 

Of course, none of this is all that helpful if there aren't any clinics in your area.

 

[milkteeth]

One good thing about this pill is that after taking it, it's impossible for a medical professional to tell that you are miscarrying due to Misoprostol versus a natural miscarriage. I know that these organizations encourage women to go to the hospital if they are experiencing any complications and tell the doctor that they began to miscarry naturally. 

This is so much safer than the other abortion information that is out there on the internet, telling women to take massive doses of vitamin C or pennyroyal tea. Sadly thanks to the reactionary psychos in power now, women have also begun to run underground groups training each other how to perform first trimester surgical abortions like feminist groups did in the decades before abortion was legal.

 

"Whatever's your darkest question, you can ask me."

[OhNoNike]

This was an excellent episode of Criminal.

https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-70-the-procedure-7-7-2017

[dramallama]

It's infuriating that women have to resort to ordering abortion pills on the internet due to inability to access a local provider and it's certainly far from anything resembling an ideal situation, but it's unfortunately the safest option for some women in the face of our current reality.  "It's safer than knitting needles/punching yourself in the abdomen/parsley" is hardly a ringing endorsement and there are risks, but it's what we've come to.  It makes me sick, but I'm glad it's a service that's available for women who might otherwise resort to other methods in desperation.  The anti-choice rhetoric around "end abortion now!" is such bullshit.  As long as there have been pregnancies there have been abortions, and that won't change.  Your stupid signs and a dozen Supreme Court justices aren't going to change that, Spanky.