Happy Simchat Torah! (Except the Girls)

[GeoBQn]

We are approaching Simchat Torah, the joyous Jewish holiday when we celebrate the completion of the yearly Torah-reading cycle and begin it anew.  A local Chabad posted this ad for its pre-school Simchat Torah celebration.  Notice anyone missing?  I want to say something, but I work for the local Jewish Federation and post on Facebook for my job, so I don't think I can be seen critiquing synagogues.  Even if they "apologize for the oversight," this is probably accurate to what the event will be like.  My in-laws go to the other Chabad in the area for Simchat Torah even though they are not Orthodox.  When I asked her what the women do during the celebration, she said, "They throw confetti from behind the mechitzah."  This is why I can't get on board with people who say that "Chabad is the new Reform."

[Dandruff]

9 hours ago, GeoBQn said:

Notice anyone missing?

They're dancing in a closed windowless room, so as not to distract the Y chromosome holders.

[Howl]

@GeoBQn, Thanks for posting, but there's a lot of unpacking to be done for those of us without a Jewish background. 

It just shows boys on the poster, but invites all kids, so the implication is that the boys dance and the girls hang with their moms, throwing confetti?

Why is (or isn't) "Chabad the new Reformed"?

"Shtick provided" means what?  I went to google, and found the usual definition but also schtick, which has a slightly different meaning. 

[GeoBQn]

Simchat Torah is the holiday when we finish our yearly cycle of reading the Torah (one portion a week) and begin it again.  It is a joyful holiday that often includes signing and dancing with the Torah scrolls.  (The "schtick" in the poster refers to funny skits or games to enhance the fun.)  In Orthodox Judaism (Chabad being one Orthodox group), typically only men are allowed to touch, carry or read from the Torah.  During Orthodox services, men and women are physically separated from each other with a wall or curtain called a "mechitzah."  Though the goal is to keep men and women from being distracted by each other during prayer, in practice the women's section is often much smaller and completely blocks the view of the men's section, making it hard for women to follow what is going on.

Even though the poster invites all children to participate, the fact that there are only boys on the poster tells me that only boys will be allowed to dance with the Torah and do the most fun parts of the celebration.  The girls might be stuck with the women behind the mechitzah, not really a part of the event.  That makes me sad, because it is sending the message that they can't be full participants in Jewish life and that they can't have a relationship with our religion's most sacred objects and texts.  I got that message growing up, and it has taken me a long time to get over.

Reform Judaism is the least observant, and for a while it was the fastest growing and was seen as the most accepting of all Jews.  Chabad is a branch of Orthodox Judaism that actively tries to recruit Jews to become more religiously observant.  Now people keep commenting that Chabad is becoming more accepting ("the new Reform" movement) because they take everyone, they claim to be non-judgmental, and--most importantly--they don't require people to pay membership dues to use their services.  However, while they provide a lot of useful things, it isn't right for everyone because they promote a level of strictness that excludes a lot of people, like women and LGBT people.

For the record, not all Orthodox groups agree with excluding women.  I follow a group called Jewish Orthodox Feminist Alliance that works to increase opportunities for women to participate and be leaders in Orthodox Jewish rituals.  For example, on Simchat Torah they would encourage celebrations where women get to carry the Torah and read from it.

[front hugs > duggs]

Thanks @GeoBQn for that detailed explanation. I was raised (reform) Jewish (named, bat mitzvah'd, always observed high holy days, etc.) despite the fact that my mom was not Jewish and my dad is. I attended Chabad services and events throughout college and it did come up that my mother wasn't Jewish. By that point, I had already experienced a conservative Rabbi asking when I would be converting to Judaism. The Chabad Rabbi and his wife was on the surface very accepting. I'm not naive enough to believe she didn't have other thoughts in her head, but I appreciated that she was respectful enough not to challenge my being Jewish. There was also someone who would attend Chabad on occasion who identified as queer. 

Again, I'm sure they have their own thoughts behind closed doors, but I'm also distantly familiar with certain Hasidim who would never tolerate anything like that in their community. 

Also funny side note story: the Chabad family I knew had several children who were helping us bake Challah one day. They were trying to one up each other with the most un-Kosher thing. "A Cheeseburger!" "A BACON cheeseburger!" "A bacon cheeseburger on Passover!" "A bacon cheeseburger on YOM KIPPUR!!!" I was dying and that's when the mom had had enough of that  

[onekidanddone]

My daughter just became a Bat Mitzvah and her Torah reading was the death of Moses not exactly a party. I tried to get her to wait and read from Bereishit (the first portion of Genesis). Some how though my kid made it work and it rocked

[front hugs > duggs]

3 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

My daughter just became a Bat Mitzvah and her Torah reading was the death of Moses not exactly a party. I tried to get her to wait and read from Bereishit (the first portion of Genesis). Some how though my kid made it work and it rocked

Mine was about leprosy ! 

[onekidanddone]

4 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Mine was about leprosy ! 

At least it wasn’t the rape of Dina

[SusanAtTheLastBattle]

On 10/4/2018 at 6:09 PM, onekidanddone said:

At least it wasn’t the rape of Dina

That portion (Vayishlach) also has Jacob wrestling with the angel, so it’s easier to find other things to say without having to talk about Dina. But those leprosy portions in Leviticus, man... wall to wall leprosy!

[AuntCloud]

Chabad is a cult. They are nice, always so nice and smiley, and how lovely of them to set up outposts in every corner of the earth so Israeli backpackers can have a proper Seder even in Kathmandu. 

Exclusion of women of all ages and an obsession with modesty are running rampant in orthodox communities in Israel, where the mainstream is decidedly inclusive and women are considered, you know, full humans who are an integral part of a healthy society. Traditionally, religious communities of all flavours had a certain degree of segregation that was absent in mainstream secular society, but lately the scales have tipped, the standards of segregation have escalated (for example, a complete separation of boys and girls in schools when 40-50 years ago elementary schools were co-ed. Or demanding army officials that no women should instruct religious soldiers). Chabad is no different, and rubs be the wrong way. They go out of their way to project niceness and advertise as welcoming and inclusive, when in fact they are anything but.

#endrant

[Skeptic]

On 10/4/2018 at 12:48 PM, front hugs > duggs said:

Mine was about leprosy ! 

Me too! Metzora was delightful. 

[mstee]

I had a friend who’s mom who taught at a Chabad preschool. The family was conservative Jewish to begin with, but the mom had to up her modesty and act meek at her job. She was otherwise a feisty woman who spoke her mind. It was interesting to see her play that role to keep her job. 

[cindyluvs24]

15 hours ago, Skeptic said:

Me too! Metzora was delightful. 

My son got that one but luckily the rabbi didn't make him do the full portion which I think had the part about spilling stuff - not the kindest thing to give to a 12 or 13 yr old boy.  I had the part of Leviticus that had the seven year rules and the quote on the Liberty Bell "Proclaim liberty throughout the land, and to all the inhabitants thereof."  I still remember that part after 40 years.  I thought it was very patriotic.

i don't remember what I had for my haftorah but my husband used to joke that his had Samuel L. Jackson's speech at the end of Pulp Fiction.

[MamaJunebug]

I have a respectful question for all who have been, or are, in conservative or Orthodox Judaism.  Here’s the background: my friend is a staunch liberal in all things (except proselytization!)  and a proud Jew.  He & I were talking about attending a Modern Orthodox learning session with a mutual friend who’s a member at that Shul. 

My friends went but I couldn’t. My extremely liberal friend texted a brief thumbs-up report along with a photo from the shul’s website.  I browsed the site & returned a photo of the divided sanctuary with the comment, “mechitzim make me sad.”

My friend flew off the handle. He shotgunned a series of statements declaring, “The women there are no shrinking violets! I never met one who is a snowflake!” and etc.

He also ranted that they CHOOSE the mechitza and thereby it’s not a sad thing. He went on to — it pains me to say this — basically spout the whole complementarian line about separate but equal, roles by gender, etc.

I replied with links to Spirutusl Sounding Board & The Wartburg Watch & (I think) a wiki on how separation of duties leads to the worst of patriarchy. 

He dropped the subject. 

LONG BACKGROUND FINISHED, here’s my question: what have YOUR experiences & observations been of women in these denominations?  

Editing to follow. 

[GeoBQn]

Conservative synagogues don't have mechitzahs.  "Conservative" can throw people off who aren't familiar with American Judaism, as it is the moderate denomination in terms of observance.

[Skeptic]

I grew up reform, but most of my extended family attended orthodox synagogues. Our local synagogue (which I only visited with my grandmother) kept the women on the balcony, which was a dump compared to how the lower level was furnished. In other synagogues, the curtain was placed in such a way that the view of the bima/pulpit was obstructed. Especially during my female cousin’s “bat mitzvah” (in quotes because she had zero participation in the ceremony except for a thank you speech at the end), her father and other family members read from the Torah on her behalf while the women’s section treated the service as a social hour, pushing strollers so babies would sleep and catching up with relatives. 

My aunt married an orthodox rabbi and rarely attended shul herself while her daughters were young. She’d have me over for sleepovers so my sister and I could experience Shabbat as young teenagers, and send us to shul in her stead. The women’s section followed along but was otherwise non-participatory. I’m an atheist but the inequality in worship is so stark. Even thinking about it now sends me into a rage. It’s a men’s club and the women are content raising the kids while letting the men circle-jerk over their holiness. 

[anjulibai]

Two of my coworkers at my last job (high school teacher) were Orthodox, one a woman, one a man. The man taught a different subject than me, but we talked a bit in the teachers' lounge. He was a nice guy, didn't seem to have a problem working with and for women (his chair, several APs and our principal were all women). 

The woman coworker taught the same subject as me, and her classroom was next to mine. She was a strong lady. Went through her mother's death and a divorce from an abusive, crazy husband while I worked there. Her community completely supported her throughout, providing her and her kids housing when her husband trashed their home, helped her with transportation when her car broke down, brought food by. She never gave any indication she felt like she was less than in her community or that she felt like she wasn't a full participant in her religion (and she was very observant). 

I imagine how women are treated and how women feel about their roles depends on the area and the specific community they live in. 

[SusanAtTheLastBattle]

On 10/10/2018 at 8:09 PM, MamaJunebug said:

LONG BACKGROUND FINISHED, here’s my question: what have YOUR experiences & observations been of women in these denominations?  

I have mixed feelings on the mechitza issue because I have friends who are feminist modern Orthodox women, whom I really respect. They sometimes justify the mechitza on the grounds that separate seating keeps the focus on prayer and not attraction. (Doesn’t work for queer people, obviously, and doesn’t even work for me as a straight person—ask me about the high holidays I spent studying abroad in Italy and praying behind a mechitza for the first time, hyper aware that everyone I was looking over the wall at was a dudely Italian dude!)

The Orthodox prayer groups that push the bounds the most to include women are called partnership minyanim (=prayer groups). They have men lead the parts of the service that traditional Jewish law explicitly specifies men must do, and have women lead every other part. Generally they have a mechitza down the center of the room, with an equally clear view of the prayer leaders for women and men. No women getting shunted into a balcony. But still a mechitza.

The crazy part is, the mechitza was widely excluded from Orthodox congregations in the early part of the twentieth century. It didn’t matter if it was the traditional understanding of the law—American Jews, trying to assimilate and aware of American norms, just wouldn’t put up with it. (Most American Orthodox women didn’t cover their hair at that time either). There was a big push to reintroduce mechitzas as part of the rightward turn of American Orthodoxy in the second half of the twentieth century. Here’s an article about pressure from the Orthodox Union on one of their last holdout congregations with mixed seating.

tl;dr Orthodox feminist women who push the boundaries of their communities are awesome; they generally don’t push back on mechitzas specifically; & that’s part of why I wouldn’t be even a lefty activist Orthodox woman

Also I’m posting on FJ on Shabbat, so, I’m pretty committed to being a Reform heretic anyway ?

[MamaJunebug]

@SusanAtTheLastBattle, @anjulibai @Skeptic @GeoBQn and everyone who was kind enough to answer: humble thanks. 

Your responses, and a few days away from my friend (our class is on a break) have led me to believe that he’s probably right and wrong.  He’s right that the women he knows, or knows of, in the more-observant denominations are there by choice and on their own terms, in which they have made peace with their status — or possibly they feel no need to “make peace” and are simply “all-in” with how things are. 

 

I think he’s wrong in his bizarrely complementarian bent, BUT given who he is — an accomplished, wealthy, white-appearing young man in the USA — he is neither inclined nor apt to see anything wrong with “separate but equal.”  He’s literally too young to remember South African apartheid; and being born & raised in the Reform tradition, he can’t imagine a world without female rabbis, congregational presidents, etc.

 

I also think he feels uneasy when I criticize anything Jewish, even expressing an honest feeling. We’ve only been pals for a couple of years and I’ve yet to convert.*  

 

So: yes, women in very patriarchal traditions can and do feel empowered (I’m living proof, coming out of the second-most-conservative of Lutheran denominations still a believer, aren’t I?); and yes, otherwise sensible, liberal people can have some whacked-out ideas, like, “complementarianism is just fine and COOL!”

 

Life goes on.  Thank you all, again!

~~~~~

* Last night at a merry family party, one of my kids teased me, “you and your Torah classes! Why don’t you just go ahead and convert, already?” — and I heard myself say what I’ve been thinking for quite some time:

”Because I don’t care about belonging anywhere, anymore — I just want to be a good person.”

And happily & miraculously, Steve Maxwell did NOT appear in a puff of sulfuric black smoke  with “The Good Person Test.”  It’s a sign! From Heaven! 8-D

[cindyluvs24]

The orthodox men will say women don't need an equal role in the synagogue because they're not obligated.  They have such an important job in the home etc.  

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, cindyluvs24 said:

The orthodox men will say women don't need an equal role in the synagogue because they're not obligated.  They have such an important job in the home etc.  

Conservative Lutherans have said the exact same thing.