Loving Life at Home

[Jencendiary]

14 hours ago, Rubaiyat said:

@JMarie, it's a lot like those conspiracy theorists.  Where are all these supposed subversives getting all this free time!?!?  And how can I get me some?!?  Seriously, for an ebil librul, I've obviously been skipping WAY too many seminars.  Especially the ones on time management.  

And if anyone could get me one of those George Soros checks, I'd be much obliged.

[Sobeknofret]

18 hours ago, EowynW said:

As a curious newlywed, how did you women find out what number of kids was right for y'all? For us, who will hopefully having kids in our early to mid 30s, two just sounds the most practical for us. It means we won't have to buy a bigger car or house, and the baby stage will be over quickly so we can do family activities together for. Also I am confident that I could handle two but also still work on developing me and my life as well. But, and this is because of my fundie raising, to the same time, just two seems so modern and "selfish". And 3-4 sounds more like a "family" and it's so stupid. I would  having this trouble if I had debt be raised fundie with the whole "have all the blessings". Ugh. I have no one to ask in person because everyone in my circle is a diehard baby lovin' pro life conservative christian  person. 

Please note, I'm really not typical. I wanted more than one desperately, but during my pregnancy I developed pre-eclampsia and my son was born at 29 weeks. Regretfully, we made the decision to not have any other children because of my health and the number of therapies and such he ended up needing. We just felt that it would be unfair to both Darth Kid and any potential children we would have. It was a hard decision to make, one of the most heartbreaking we've ever had to do.

As it turned out, it was the very best decision because three weeks before Darth Kid "graduated" from all his therapies, his dad was diagnosed with non-Hodgkins lymphoma (I keep telling people that if I hadn't lived it, that the last 15 years would have seemed more like a bad soap opera plot!). 

There's no easy answer, and life does things to us that we couldn't have ever predicted. Just take it one child at a time (if you even decide that you want kids! It's fine to decide you don't too!), and let it unfold as it comes. 

[Kailash]

@EowynW My husband and I thought we would have 2 kids. But our first was so difficult we decided to stop at one. She takes everything out of me sometimes, even now at age 11. I wouldn't trade her for an easier child but I do feel a little jealous of my sister in law who has 2 kids. 

One thing that is important to me also that I don't hear other people mention much, is that I only had the number of children I could physically take care of during a natural disaster. We live in tornado alley and it's always been in the back of my mind. When I babysat for a friend, my husband and I discussed who was to be responsible for our child and who would be responsible for the one we babysat. I don't particularly worry during tornado season but I do try to be prepared. Plus, I figure there will most likely be other people's kids to help take care of in a disaster situation. I realize most people don't worry about these things.     

Eta: My husband's brother always felt responsible for their sister's death by drowning because he was supposed to watch out for her, even though there was an adult present. He never got over that self inflicted guilt. This is one of the main reasons I don't think siblings should be responsible for each other (like the Duggars do.) And if a family has more children than adults, how can a parent adequately keep an eye on all of them? Obviously some parents manage this better than others.

[guitar_villain]

On 8/3/2017 at 0:46 PM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

If sex is only fabulous when it's full of "potential "-- what about infertile couples?  Is the sex awful or should they not even bother? 

 

Ironically and speaking from some experience, infertility sex is pretty bad, at least far as it's possible for sex to be bad.

Wait for the stick to turn the right color, then schedule yourself every 36 hours after that.  Oh, and here's a long list of fun things you can't do since they will lower your chances of conception.  Come back in three weeks for some more invasive tests to see how everything is going.

It's really not very amenable to serious fun and I'm a guy.  It's worse for the woman.

[EowynW]

2 hours ago, Kailash said:

@EowynW 

One thing that is important to me also that I don't hear other people mention much, is that I only had the number of children I could physically take care of during a natural disaster. We live in tornado alley and it's always been in the back of my mind. When I babysat for a friend, my husband and I discussed who was to be responsible for our child and who would be responsible for the one we babysat. I don't particularly worry during tornado season but I do try to be prepared. Plus, I figure there will most likely be other people's kids to help take care of in a disaster situation. I realize most people don't worry about these things.     

 

See that's another thing that we've been discussing a lot. Both of us are more of the disaster preparedness/reasonable prep mindset and two kids would give us each one to be responsible for should something happen. We lived through a horrific tornado outbreak in April that has solidified our thinking. 

[SoybeanQueen]

On 8/3/2017 at 11:46 AM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

If sex is only fabulous when it's full of "potential "-- what about infertile couples?  Is the sex awful or should they not even bother?  What about after menopause?  Should the hubby divorce the dried up bag and get a new wife full of potential?

Oh I so want this woman to revisit her pronouncement when she is past menopause and all her "potential" is gone.

 

Oh! Oh! I know the answer, because I've been lectured by some rabid NFP-practicing Catholic women on this subject. Apparently, God has the potential to give you children after menopause, or during infertility, or when using NFP for birth control, but He does not have the power to circumvent a tubal ligation or other birth control methods.

Of course, that's not exactly how they worded it, but that was the only logical end conclusion.

[Lurky]

17 hours ago, SoybeanQueen said:

Oh! Oh! I know the answer, because I've been lectured by some rabid NFP-practicing Catholic women on this subject. Apparently, God has the potential to give you children after menopause, or during infertility, or when using NFP for birth control, but He does not have the power to circumvent a tubal ligation or other birth control methods.

So it's one of those "God is all-powerful, except when He's not" things? 

The contradictions in these arguments make me ragey.  I shouldn't have lesbian sex because it couldn't result in a child, so I shouldn't be allowed to get married - but it's fine for my dad to marry a woman over menopause/my friend with infertility from teenage years because of her chemotherapy and so on, but let's insult their sex lives anyway....

[Baxter]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I fell down the rabbit hole with this blog. I mostly just follow the Duggars, Bates and Maxwells. But I couldn't believe how normal these people are even if they are totally fundie. They certainly create a very shiny happy image on their blog and website. I should say that I am an atheist and pretty liberal in my beliefs in general so I basically don't agree with them at all in terms of abortion, birth control, etc. 

But then even though they have homeschooled their children, they obviously did a good job with it since one of the sons is a doctor and two other kids are dentists, including one of the daughters. In that way they seem so much better than the fundies who basically set their kids up to have a really difficult life with no proper education. This makes them so much more dangerous I think because they seem so normal.

But then they are spouting all of this patriarchal garbage, which only works if your husband isn't a complete tool.  You can tell on the blog that the dad is kind of erratic and that it bothers the mom but she just has to go along with it because that's what Jesus wants. He keeps buying new cars, sold their old house, got rid of the tv while everyone else was away. It's all so weird and so different from my own life but, for some reason, kind of alluring at the same time.

[milkteeth]

1 hour ago, Baxter said:

It's all so weird and so different from my own life but, for some reason, kind of alluring at the same time.

I've felt this way too at times, and I can imagine that there are genuinely good parts of living a life like that. For me I think part of the allure is how they all seem so confident that they're living the absolute correct way and have found the key to being happy in our messed up world.

You've got to remember it's all propaganda though. Both the Duggars and the Vision Forum fiasco have shown that you never know what's going on behind closed doors, and most these folks are all so brainwashed who knows what they're really feeling. I can't help but wonder how nice and normal they would be if one of their kids came out or a muslim family moved in next door. 

[Jug Band Baby]

On 8/3/2017 at 6:20 AM, Anonymousguest said:

In the comment section of the 5 reasons she's glad she didn't have a tubal, someone commented that her husband didn't want more because of her difficult pregnancies, and JF replies that she had easy pregnancies and deliveries so having more babies was an easy option for her and that if things were different they might have made other choices and that the commenter and her husband would have to choose together what was best. 

I read the last line of her reply as trying to get the woman's husband to listen to god saying more kids.  It was just couched in pretty words.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 8/3/2017 at 9:46 AM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

If sex is only fabulous when it's full of "potential "-- what about infertile couples?  Is the sex awful or should they not even bother?  What about after menopause?  Should the hubby divorce the dried up bag and get a new wife full of potential?

She says,

Quote

When any of those elements are missing (marriage, faithfulness, procreative potential), sex is stripped of some of its power and meaning, and what is left is a distorted shadow of what was meant to be.

If you're infertile, why bother?  She's an offensive idiot.

I can't have more babies.  The power and meaning of sex hasn't changed.

On 8/3/2017 at 2:45 PM, EowynW said:

As a curious newlywed, how did you women find out what number of kids was right for y'all? For us, who will hopefully having kids in our early to mid 30s, two just sounds the most practical for us. It means we won't have to buy a bigger car or house, and the baby stage will be over quickly so we can do family activities together for. Also I am confident that I could handle two but also still work on developing me and my life as well. But, and this is because of my fundie raising, to the same time, just two seems so modern and "selfish". And 3-4 sounds more like a "family" and it's so stupid. I would  having this trouble if I had debt be raised fundie with the whole "have all the blessings". Ugh. I have no one to ask in person because everyone in my circle is a diehard baby lovin' pro life conservative christian  person. 

We thought we'd have move before having any.  After 2, we either had to move, or pack a 3rd into a small bedroom.  At that time, tiny apartment.    When we got our last house, which we're moving out of at the end of this month, we had space for a couple more, but affording the costs would mean nixing some of the activities out kids do.  Uh oh.  It's not about just what we want.  It's about how it's going to affect our kids' lives.  We don't feel right telling them to sacrifice for our choices.  If we were rich, more kids might be right, but we're not rich so this is right.  If we were poor, 1 might be right.  This isn't a case of poor people should get while rich get it all, but about being able to provide.

When you have 1, give it a bit, and see of another feels right, not only for you and spouse, but your kid.  I you have a 2nd, give it a but and see.  If you're on the fence, wait.  It's easier to have a baby if it does feel right than to unhave a baby if it goes the other way.

[Jug Band Baby]

16 hours ago, Baxter said:

Long time lurker, first time poster. I fell down the rabbit hole with this blog. I mostly just follow the Duggars, Bates and Maxwells. But I couldn't believe how normal these people are even if they are totally fundie. They certainly create a very shiny happy image on their blog and website. I should say that I am an atheist and pretty liberal in my beliefs in general so I basically don't agree with them at all in terms of abortion, birth control, etc. 

But then even though they have homeschooled their children, they obviously did a good job with it since one of the sons is a doctor and two other kids are dentists, including one of the daughters. In that way they seem so much better than the fundies who basically set their kids up to have a really difficult life with no proper education. This makes them so much more dangerous I think because they seem so normal.

Careful.  Some of the most dangerous fundies are the fundies who make their beliefs look comfortable and perfect.  We only see what they want to present.

I get the inkling their homeschooling involved private teachers and tutors at their home.  Good for getting them educated, though.

[Baxter]

Yes, I misspoke. I should have said they appear to be normal. Obviously they are not. I agree that they are very dangerous. I think all that patriarchal stuff is bs. My husband and I are equal partners and I have no trouble at all calling him out if I think he is wrong. We have one child and will maybe have a second. Yay for birth control! I think everyone should have equal rights.

I also mentioned that you can certainly see hints of the not so pretty parts of their life in their blog. But if I can see how certain parts of their life seem kind of appealing then I can totally see how someone who maybe doesn't look at things too closely might jump on board. So I agree that makes them very dangerous.

I should also mention the part that seems the most appealing is getting to be a stay at home mom. I got a year of maternity leave with my son. Yay for being Canadian! But I wish I could have stayed at home with him longer. My husband and I looked at it and certainly we would take a bit of a hit financially but it was doable. However, he is an engineer and he worries about the potential of getting laid off in the future. I'm a lawyer so if I stopped practicing it would be difficult for me to start working again if he couldn't find another job. I would need to get reaccredited, which is a huge pain. Luckily, I have been able to have a flexible schedule. I would still like to spend more time with my little boy though. But not have 12 children. That seems like hell.

 

[AuntKrazy]

@EowynW We have decided that 0 is the right number for us.  (being raised in fundie circles and infertile had a whole lot of baggage for me, including about not adopting since I cannot give birth myself)

And I say this because I'm not sure that we really set out to pick that; but it has turned into what is exactly right for us.  At your age, we both thought 1 or 2 kids would be ideal; but the timing was never right. (and there are no accidental adoptions!)  

What we will never regret is waiting until we were confident in our decision.  And the more we chose not to, the more we embraced that the only reason we really considered children to begin with was outside (aka family) pressure.  

I even know women who are angry with me that I married Mr. Krazy.  They believe that BECAUSE I knew about my infertility (as did he), I should have said no anyway and left him available to marry, support, and pop-out babies with someone else.  And all that to say that my conclusion from everything I have seen is this:  

Criticism is the consuming fire of this type of fundamentalism.  It craves more and more and never says, "Enough!" - if  the criticsm of my fundie acquaintances is not fueled by  my decision to not have children, then it is fueled by something else.  There is no satisfaction or ceasing of a desire to burn others for choosing differently and still experiencing grace.  No matter what you decide here, someone will criticize your choice.  

The right number of children is always this:  whatever circumstances and your choices bring you.  

[EowynW]

"Criticism is the consuming fire of this type of fundamentalism.  It craves more and more and never says, "Enough!" - if  the criticsm of my fundie acquaintances is not fueled by  my decision to not have children, then it is fueled by something else. "

 

@AuntKrazyOh its always something. Always. Coming from hard fundie family on both sides and still having to live near them (we are saving to move) has me so exhausted some days I just wish I could disappear. 

[Four is Enough]

Infertile sex is weird and sometimes inconvenient, not to mention occasionally painful and/or frustrating. It's no fun whatsoever to be counting your schedule and HAVE TO have sex TODAY!! And having sex just before your period, when you have endometriosis... it just hurts.

Postmenopausal sex ~ let us have a party!! It's fun, it's easier, it's spontaneous, Let's get it on!!

I do agree that committed sex.. as in with my husband, is the best sex I've had. EVer. And the second best sex I ever had was with a FWB. He and I were besties, we were loving towards each other, and we wanted to have fun. So we did..

[Anonymousguest]

My current infertile sex is the result of my own doing (tubal ligation) and it's pretty fantastic with my committed partner of nearly 30yrs. So, whatever. I've heard that sex is a "type" for us coming into the presence of God, and I'll go with that. No prospective children needed for that analogy, just orgasms.

[ADoyle90815]

Earlier this year, I got the copper IUD since even though I'm 41 and child-free, I thought I'd still be denied a tubal ligation. My plan is to hopefully leave it in for the full 10-12 years it's effective. It wasn't purely because of the election results, but I got sick of dealing with the pharmacy for birth control refills, and I wanted something longer term that I didn't have to worry about other than the monthly string check. While my tubes are "open," the rest of my uterus is closed until further notice.

[nastyhobbitses]

I got a hormonal IUD because I travel a lot and remembering my birth control is a pain in the ass. I have another three years of effectiveness, and unless in the next three years I get into a VERY committed relationship and make a home with that person and feel I'm in a place in my career where I can take maternity leave for a while, I'm getting another one put in immediately after this one has to come out. I'd like to have one or two children, but definitely not right now.

Honestly, sex was kinda crappy the first couple of months after I had the IUD inserted because it just hurt a lot, but once I got to an equilibrium, it was so much better because I no longer had to worry about whether or not I'd remembered my pill. And some of the best sex I ever had was with a FWB who really liked being adventurous in the bedroom and was really good about respecting my boundaries while also pushing them in the right ways (I was sexually assaulted by a boyfriend when I was 18, so consent and respect of my boundaries are paramount in the bedroom, even though I like to be -- as I said -- adventurous...in a way, doing dominance/submission play with my FWB helped me regain a lot of confidence and be more open and comfortable during sex, because I was relinquishing control, not losing control).