Cincinnati Zoo Incident: Stop Blaming the Mother

[roddma]

I'm sure most here have heard of the Cincinnati Zoo incident ending with the death of a 17 yr old gorilla. I have to agree here.  Mothers still get the bulk of blame for parenting fails and other articles express this sentiment. I recall when  Jason Duggar (?)  fell in the orchestra pit and all fingers pointed to Michelle. Hey Boob was there too. 

She has suffered enough with an injured child and unwanted publicity .Every incident isnt a result of bad parenting.  Im sorry an animal had to be put down, but thankful the kid is alive. It doesnt take a genius to know kids can break your grip, and be gone in a split second. I have seen cases of true neglect. I'ts hard to make a judgement call from what the media gives. My only beef is how the parents thanked a god for protecting the child

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tova-leigh/stop-blaming-the-cincinnati-zoo-mother_b_10237134.html

[mstee]

Every person I've talked to about the situation has said "where were the parents?", not "where was the mom?". I've not read anything that says how difficult the barrier was to get through (was he under the fence in a couple of seconds or a couple of minutes?). I get that accidents happen quickly, even very bad and possibly fatal ones, so I'm torn on blaming the mom (after reading the dad wasn't present). I don't feel like there is enough info out to say "okay, this was neglect", but it does warrant an investigation. Obviously the zoo needs to reevaluate their enclosure. The mother may also need to reevaluate some things as well. 

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, roddma said:

I recall when  Jason Duggar (?)  fell in the orchestra pit and all fingers pointed to Michelle.

To be fair, Michelle's behavior and attitude after the fact (her apparent lack of concern and seeming to be more worried about getting the whole thing on camera than about whether her child was alright) were a major factor in her getting blasted. The criticisms I've heard regarding that incident have been more about Michelle's apparent indifference to her child's injury than the fact that an accident happened.

I definitely think that culturally speaking, there's very much an element of sexism in assigning more parental responsibility to the mother. In that specific incident, though, Michelle's actions were being critiqued, not just her presence at the time her child fell.

Regarding the zoo incident, I simply don't think that enough information has been made public for us to know either way whether the parents bear any responsibility. It's entirely possible they weren't paying attention - but equally possible it was a freak accident that could have happened to anyone. I think it's too early to rush to judgment one way or the other.

[roddma]

Men arent seen as caregivers or nurturers of kids. It's why they dont usually get called out for not showing concern or when something happens.

[Howl]

I was watching America's Funniest Videos a few days ago and watched a 3-year-old girl shinny up a refrigerator door (using mostly the handle) to get to something she wanted on top of the refrigerator.  She was fast, strong, and agile.  It made me realize that a highly motivated and impulsive 3-year-old could easily thwart a fence and some hedges in an instant.  What amazes me is that the kid  could fall over a cliff and into 1.5' of water and not suffer a debilitating injury.  I think the cliff into the moat area was about 10' high.  That's a substantial fall.  

I don't blame the mom and I certainly don't blame the zoo for shooting the gorilla.  This would be a very different conversation if the gorilla had inadvertently killed the child. 

[2manyKidzzz]

I haven't seen a good picture, or any picture really of the railing/fence. 

[FakePigtails]

21 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I haven't seen a good picture, or any picture really of the railing/fence. 

There's a photo here: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-syxeVV3ZYMM/UGtGywoFwWI/AAAAAAAADO8/73-D7A74ryg/s1600/IMG_5171.JPG

It appears the zoo is reopening the exhibit with a fence that's higher and that doesn't have those big gaps: http://www.wlwt.com/news/prosecutor-reviewing-cpd-investigation-into-zoo-gorilla-incident/39863244

My opinion mirrors @Mercer's, with an added element of surprise that an enclosure containing a deep moat and deadly animals can have fewer restrictions on its barriers than a balcony or pool.

[Geechee Girl]

I'm one of those people who asked, "Where were the parents?" and "Was the child not trained to keep to not climb on things?" The zoo is not a park, and not the place to be running wild with no home training. Even in the picture linked above, it appears to me that kid is climbing onto the fence and leaning in for a closer look.

[2manyKidzzz]

As to the safety of the old rail, the proof is in the pudding. My kids did stay in the double stroller while at the zoo, unless I had to hold them up to see something, then bag in to the stroller they went. They were "runners". That particular exhibit doesn't give a good view of the gorillas in my view. If the child could get over it, then it wasn't secure enough. 

I have often thought that railings at the zoo were not that great, National Zoo. It just crossed my mind at times. I hated even being near the lion exhibit. Eeeeeeek. 

[roddma]

The only thing separating you from wild animals is a railing and some bushes- not good.

[Toothfairy]

I feel bad for the gorilla but a silver back could've killed him in a second. We don't know the full story. I remember taking my kids climbing the cabinets ( they were like 3 or 4) while I was in the bathroom. My son fell and busted his lip. I was in the bathroom for a few minutes. 

[louisa05]

Our zoo had gorillas. You can see them inside through glass (huge enclosure with plenty of climbing, etc...space for them--if they are hiding in the back of that enclosure, they are hard to see) or outside from very far above the enclosure. They have access to go in or out as they choose unless there is a reason for closing it. 

There was a glass busting incident last year; but it is several layers thick, so the gorilla who busted it still could not get out. 

The pictures of the enclosures at Cincinnati astounded me by comparison. That seems a little too close for safety. 

 

[TeaGrannie]

There were witness statements that the child repeatedly said he intended to climb in with the gorilla. With that I fully blame the mother. Why did she not remove him from the exhibit or better yet the zoo itself? First warning to child if he was mine would have been an explanation of how real gorillas are not like cartoons and it is not acceptable to enter their home at the zoo. Second time a warning we will leave if he cannot behave. Third time leave exhibit/zoo. Since he apparently said this repeatedly I guess we'd have left and avoided the incident. 

I am by no means a perfect parent but that is a safety and respect issue, neither are negotiable. I had one child impulsive enough to think he might try and the other rivals Houdini for his ability to disappear. Shockingly neither ended up in a wild animal enclosure (sarcasm). They were taught to behave and listen. 

I don't believe the level of abuse she has taken on the internet is appropriate or that child services should seize her children but she should acknowledge she had some responsibility for the incident. I saw a screenshot of her thanking God for "being an amazing God" but not one freaking word of sympathy or apology to the zoo staff for the loss they suffered (until she got PR representation). 

Yes the vilification should stop but she also needs to acknowledge the damage done and think on how she can protect her child without relying on God. 

Sorry for the wall of text but I'm still feeling pretty passionate about this.

[Carol]

I am completely disgusted with the reactions to this story.  This was a 3 year old child.  Children dart, turn on a dime, they explode with energy and get away fast.  I didn't read anywhere that the child said he was going to climb the fence, I read that he asked his mom if he could go into the enclosure and she said no.  The fencing the zoo has needs to be made far more secure than it is.  Two strands of wire won't hold a child back who is determined to get where he wants to go.

Another thing...if this mom were white, slender, had only two children and her husband was professionally employed without a police record, do you really think people all over would have piled on the guilt?  Do you really think the zoo or the police would be investigating her?

I don't.

[2manyKidzzz]

Well, after giving this a bit of thought, it was in my mind the responsibility of the zoo to protect its animal. I thought the original railing was pretty awful. 

[Georgiana]

25 minutes ago, Carol said:

I am completely disgusted with the reactions to this story.  This was a 3 year old child.  Children dart, turn on a dime, they explode with energy and get away fast.  I didn't read anywhere that the child said he was going to climb the fence, I read that he asked his mom if he could go into the enclosure and she said no.  The fencing the zoo has needs to be made far more secure than it is.  Two strands of wire won't hold a child back who is determined to get where he wants to go.

Another thing...if this mom were white, slender, had only two children and her husband was professionally employed without a police record, do you really think people all over would have piled on the guilt?  Do you really think the zoo or the police would be investigating her?

I don't.

I do.  What happened here hasn't happened in the what, 40 years that exhibit has been open.  We need t find out WHY it happened to stop it from happening again.  We need to know who was responsible.  It's not anger, it's due diligence, and honestly there is ample evidence to investigate EVERYONE involved, including the behavior of the parents.  We need to understand the roles of all the key players in this.  A living creature was killed.  A child was almost killed.  This is serious and needs to be looked into from all avenues.  

Because if the child is NOT being watched, maybe the next time they climb they aren't so lucky.  Then we ask "Why didn't anyone investigate the parents' supervision when the child fell in at the zoo?!?  CLEARLY that was a red flag that the parents were not supervising!"

This all reminds me of when I worked at a restaurant and parents would let their kids run around and eventually one would fall and get hurt.  You could say "Oh, kids can fall in a minute.  There was nothing they could do!".  But that's not the point.  The point is that they never should have been allowed to be running around to begin with.  In the setting, they should have been seated or taken outside where it would be safer for them to run.  

The child should have been told not to climb on railings to begin with.  He should have been removed or forced to hold his parent's hand as soon as he was seen on railings.   If he was constantly attempting to climb, he should not ever have been unsupervised near a railing.  There's only SO fast a toddler can scale a wall unless he does it frequently.  It doesn't make sense that this is the FIRST time this child has ever been a climber AND he climbed fast enough that he did it too quick for his parents to react to.  

There's a lot of holes in that story.  It needs to be looked into, or in other words, investigated.  

[TeaGrannie]

24 minutes ago, Carol said:

I am completely disgusted with the reactions to this story.  This was a 3 year old child.  Children dart, turn on a dime, they explode with energy and get away fast.  I didn't read anywhere that the child said he was going to climb the fence, I read that he asked his mom if he could go into the enclosure and she said no.  The fencing the zoo has needs to be made far more secure than it is.  Two strands of wire won't hold a child back who is determined to get where he wants to go.

Another thing...if this mom were white, slender, had only two children and her husband was professionally employed without a police record, do you really think people all over would have piled on the guilt?  Do you really think the zoo or the police would be investigating her?

I don't.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/05/30/boy-zoo-gorilla-enclosure/

 

[Carol]

4 minutes ago, TeaGrannie said:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/05/30/boy-zoo-gorilla-enclosure/

 

I stand corrected.  I hadn't read this until you posted it.

[TeaGrannie]

I've seen a couple other versions of this too. Poor gorilla, poor caretakers too, it must of been heartbreaking to have to kill him. Necessary but heartbreaking just the same. The new fence doesn't look any better but hopefully they can keep it from happening again. 

[Carol]

39 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

I do.  What happened here hasn't happened in the what, 40 years that exhibit has been open.  We need t find out WHY it happened to stop it from happening again.  We need to know who was responsible.  It's not anger, it's due diligence, and honestly there is ample evidence to investigate EVERYONE involved, including the behavior of the parents.  A living creature was killed.  A child was almost killed.  This is serious and needs to be looked into from all avenues.  

This all reminds me of when I worked at a restaurant and parents would let their kids run around and eventually one would fall and get hurt.  You could say "Oh, kids can fall in a minute.  There was nothing they could do!".  But that's not the point.  The point is that they never should have been allowed to be running around to begin with.  In the setting, they should have been seated or taken outside where it would be safer for them to run.  

The child should have been told not to climb on railings to begin with.  He should have been removed or forced to hold his parent's hand as soon as he was seen on railings.   If he was constantly attempting to climb, he should not ever have been unsupervised near a railing.  There's only SO fast a toddler can scale a wall unless he does it frequently.  It doesn't make sense that this is the FIRST time this child has ever been a climber AND he climbed fast enough that he did it too quick for his parents to react to.  

There's a lot of holes in that story.  It needs to be looked into, or in other words, investigated.  

Seriously, WTF are they going to investigate, that her child went under the wires and through the bushes and fell in the enclosure?  Do we investigate parents who lose their children in a grocery store?  In a dept. store? In a neighborhood?  I've been witness to all these scenarios and I've never blamed the parent(mostly because they are hysterically crying and blaming themselves).   And, by the way, the child was told repeatedly he could not go into the enclosure.  He's three, he did.  It was a tragic accident.

 

ETA, please do not interpret this as me having no feelings about the gorilla or the people who had to destroy him.  I am an animal lover through and through and I feel really badly for his keepers who lost a friend.  I can't imagine how hard that must have been.  That said, those who have had children must understand how this could happen.  Please, let's learn from it and stop the blaming.

[Georgiana]

13 hours ago, Carol said:

Seriously, WTF are they going to investigate, that her child went under the wires and through the bushes and fell in the enclosure?  Do we investigate parents who lose their children in a grocery store?  In a dept. store? In a neighborhood?  I've been witness to all these scenarios and I've never blamed the parent(mostly because they are hysterically crying and blaming themselves).   And, by the way, the child was told repeatedly he could not go into the enclosure.  He's three, he did.  It was a tragic accident.

 

ETA, please do not interpret this as me having no feelings about the gorilla or the people who had to destroy him.  I am an animal lover through and through and I feel really badly for his keepers who lost a friend.  I can't imagine how hard that must have been.  That said, those who have had children must understand how this could happen.  Please, let's learn from it and stop the blaming.

Right.  You've been witness to all of those because they happen to everyone.  Or maybe not everyone.  But MOST people.  Or frequently enough.  Sometimes stuff just happens.  

But not all stuff.  How many kids have you seen fall into a zoo exhibit?  I'm guessing 0 because it rarely happens.  This fence had been in place since the 70's with NO incidents.  So WHAT made this event different?  Was the fence ALWAYS an issue and for 40 years we've just been getting lucky that nothing happened? That is being investigated because maybe that IS the case and we need to radically overhaul our standards for zoo fencing nationwide.  Or was there something unique about the people in play at this particular time that contributed to this issue?  That also needs to be investigated.  

I think we need to investigate ALL sides of this story in order to get the full picture.  Because this is not losing a kid at a grocery store.  This is an uncommon event that needs to STAY uncommon, and in order to keep it that way, we need to understand all sides of the incident and how the various factors came into play with one another. 

[Mercer]

I do think this situation needs to be investigated from all angles - not with the intention of placing blame or punishing anyone, I think everyone has been blamed and punished more than enough already - but to see if there are any correctable issues and then correcting them. If this is truly just a freak accident that could not have been prevented by any means, then so be it, but this is a serious enough situation that I think it's important to at least try to figure out what could be done differently (whether by the zoo or by the parents) to keep it from happening again.

[devoe364]

I have no kids, but I have been a gymnastics coach since I was 14 (some of my babies are now coaches as well, one even represents Canada on occaision and attends the University of Minnesota) and I taught for 7 years. Have you ever tried taking 30 kids to the zoo? How about 100+ 11 year olds to another city? 

Every field trip, someone wanders off. Seriously, no matter how old the kids are. No matter how many chaperones you have. Someone wanders off and needs to be found. These are 10-15 year olds that I taught, and we still always lost someone. Always.

Now, nothing tragic happened. Usually, as they were older kids, they had just wandered away to look at something, or forgot what time it was, or something like that, and they were easily found. However, something could have happened. 

So I understand that no one is perfect and the best laid plans go awry when kids are involved.

I was also a runner as a child. We lived on my grandparents farm. I had FREE RUN of the farm. Yes, they discussed safety with me, and places I could and couldn't go, but I roamed that farm by myself all day every day from the time I was about 2 years old. 

When I was about 2 1/2, I was playing near the garage where my Grandpa was working on some piece of equipment. I often climbed the farm equipment. I climbed everything (there is a reason my Mom put me in gymnastics as a kid). I was climbing on the thresher. This wasn't uncommon for me to do.

That day however, my grandpa turned his back to pick up a wrench. When he turned back, he couldn't see me, or hear me. Panicked, he ran over to the machine, expecting to see his decapitated or badly injured granddaughter. Instead, I was sitting on the grass, having fallen through the blades, and I blithley informed my Grandpa that what I had been doing was dangerous. and I didn't do it again, until years later, when I was too big to fall. 

They would find me sitting in the middle of the honeycombs we had on the farm. With no stings at all, but whomever approached me to get me would get attacked. I also hit my Grandpa with a snowmobile that following winter... 

My Grandpa wasn't neglectful, nor was my Mom for leaving me with him. I was a pain in the butt child who liked to run and climb, and damn the consequences. Thank goodness my Mom never took me to the zoo until I was 17. 

[2manyKidzzz]

It could also be argued that the zoo does not offer a safe environment for children to view the animals. At the National Zoo, which I mentioned above, I felt very sketchy viewing some of the larger/dangerous animals with my children, who were locked in the double stroller anyway. I ended up just feeling sorry for the animals and not like the zoo thing. 

And adventurous child can never be discounted. When my youngest was young, I have mentioned here, he broke down a gate and went down the stairs before he was one. We removed pictures with glass fronts from the living room. Removed certain furniture. And I watched him like a hawk. It was exhausting. At this point, we didn't go to the zoo. Sick of it quite frankly from the older two. 

[McDoodleDoodleDoo]

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

It could also be argued that the zoo does not offer a safe environment for children to view the animals. At the National Zoo, which I mentioned above, I felt very sketchy viewing some of the larger/dangerous animals with my children, who were locked in the double stroller anyway. I ended up just feeling sorry for the animals and not like the zoo thing. 

And adventurous child can never be discounted. When my youngest was young, I have mentioned here, he broke down a gate and went down the stairs before he was one. We removed pictures with glass fronts from the living room. Removed certain furniture. And I watched him like a hawk. It was exhausting. At this point, we didn't go to the zoo. Sick of it quite frankly from the older two. 

I hear you, I am a stay at home mom with two littles and renting. We can only use pressure mounted baby gates and they are useless once your kid gets strong enough. Even our main coon cat can bring them down if she tries to climb it, even my cat can remove the door knob covers. 

 

My kids know esactly when I am vunerable to go crazy. When I am in the bathroom and when I am doing dishes is when the kids will wait to get into everything they are not allowed to do. I had to install a door knob that I can lock with a key for the pantry because they would break in and climb the shelfs to get snacks every time I pottied or if they happened to wake up at 3 am. I just wish there was a proper way to be able to lock ovens while they are on and dish washers. My cat has opened the oven before wanting to get at a roasting chicken. So far the kid's haven't been able to try to open the oven because I never leave the kitchen when I bake or roast anything anymore. It sucks.

Some kids and pets are incredibly smart and will find a way when their will is high enough. Chances are the Mom at the zoo wasn't watching her kids like she should have but there are children that even the most attentive of parents can't always keep 100% safe. Not everyone understand how mentally exhausting it is to be 100% attentive 24/7 can be years on end. It's even more difficult when you don't have many opportunities to excercise your brain when you're caring for babies to preschoolers. 

 

There is no way for us to know if the mother was complete shit out of habit or if it was because of a few distracted seconds with a crazy kid. I have seen more than enough stupid behavior at our zoo with parents encouraging it. Our zoo has a metal life size giraffe statue. Almost every trip to the zoo I see parents taking pictures of their kids sitting on top of it's head and the statue is over concrete. It terrifies me every time. I often see parents place their toddler on top of the petting zoo goats back for pictures too. The zoo is full of shitty parents and overwhelmed ones trying to keep track of more they can handle. I am not surprised more accidents are not reported more often TBH.