Biblical Heroines

[halcionne]

I'm not putting this in the Duggar thread, because it's more of a general fundie topic, even though Jessa's announcement inspired my post.

I haven't studied the bible much, but I often wonder about fundies' baby naming practices. There are many fine names in the bible, but fundies definitely have their favorites. As a feminist, I have a different idea of which biblical woman I might name a daughter after. But, like I said, I haven't read enough of the bible to know who these women are.

Esther is a figure I know and admire, and fundies do, too. Deborah and Jael seem pretty cool, but I haven't read much about them. Love Mary Magdalene, but I suspect she still has a bad reputation with fundies.

Anyway. I want your thoughts on bible heroines, FJ. I found this entertaining link: womeninthebible.net/ but I can't tell what the site owner's religious stance or personal biases might be. From the "Heroines" page (I don't know Rahab's story at all):

Rahab the Prostitute lived in a seedy part of town that turned out to be the right address... :D

I'm very interested in which women might be more highly esteemed in different denominations, if that makes sense, and from a Jewish or Muslim perspective, too.

[clueliss]

Off the top of my head - little thought involved and rather obscure - Jael (Yael in Hebrew and one of my internet friends who is both a Brit and Orthodox Jew has a daughter named this).

Noted for taking a tent stake and stabbing a guy in the head (I think).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yael

link not broken because it is wikipedia.

[Esther]

I like Yael, I like Judith. I like Moses' wife, Tzippora, but that may be because my Hebrew name is Rachel Tzippora.

I like Esther, too, but I must say my heroine in the Esther story is Queen Vashti - GO HOME, AHASUERUS, YOU'RE DRUNK. :D

[Georgiana]

Magdalene is one of my favorite Catholic names.

I also love how Fundies complain about Easter/Ishtar (which is incorrect, Easter comes from Ēostre/Ostara) but use the name Esther which was the heroine's Babylonian name given when she entered the harem and which actually may have been derived from Ishtar (the heroine's given Hebrew name was Hadassah).

I also like Michal.

[halcionne]

Off the top of my head - little thought involved and rather obscure - Jael (Yael in Hebrew and one of my internet friends who is both a Brit and Orthodox Jew has a daughter named this).

Noted for taking a tent stake and stabbing a guy in the head (I think).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yael

link not broken because it is wikipedia.

I was vaguely aware of the tent peg story; what a badass. And no one, including me, seems to know how to pronounce Jael in American English. The Y spelling solves that problem. :D

I like Yael, I like Judith. I like Moses' wife, Tzippora, but that may be because my Hebrew name is Rachel Tzippora.

I like Esther, too, but I must say my heroine in the Esther story is Queen Vashti - GO HOME, AHASUERUS, YOU'RE DRUNK. :D

:lol: :lol: Vashti! I'm reading the wikipedia entry and now I have a new crush.

Magdalene is one of my favorite Catholic names.

I also love how Fundies complain about Easter/Ishtar (which is incorrect, Easter comes from Ēostre/Ostara) but use the name Esther which was the heroine's Babylonian name given when she entered the harem and which actually may have been derived from Ishtar (the heroine's given Hebrew name was Hadassah).

I also like Michal.

Re bolded: fascinating. Get it right, fundies. And every American ever, probably.

I'm learning so much from you guys, thanks. Tell me more! Why is Ruth so popular with fundies, but Deborah isn't? I have my theory. :roll:

[halcionne]

I like Yael, I like Judith. I like Moses' wife, Tzippora, but that may be because my Hebrew name is Rachel Tzippora.

I like Esther, too, but I must say my heroine in the Esther story is Queen Vashti - GO HOME, AHASUERUS, YOU'RE DRUNK. :D

Here's an embarrassing question: What was the dominant religion in Persia at the time?

A quick, short answer is fine; I don't know how to google things like that without getting bogged down with too much information that assumes I have a particular understanding or perspective already. I have zero understanding or perspective about ancient religions, except for Greek, Roman, Norse mythology in the most generic way possible. I've been out of school a long time. :embarrassed:

[BullyJBG]

Deborah, Anna, Esther, Ruth, Priscilla, those are mine. Deborah was a real leader, and her husband supported her in the background. Priscilla is always mentioned before her husband Aquila, but they seemed to have been a strong team. Anna I relate to except I hope never to get that old! But, she was a widow WAY longer than she was married, and she must've endured a whole lot of you-know-what for that! After all, I guess living in the temple was the only option for her if she didn't have sons to care for her and her parents were dead. Esther, because she risked her life; never really thought much about that, especially when, after her praying and fasting "if I perish I perish". Ruth, also a widow, who took a brave step in going with Naomi, even though her parents would've likely welcomed her back too, and found a new husband for her.(or maybe she wanted to be sure she wouldn't end up with one who already had wives?)

I may think of more. Some can melt my heart like Rahab. She began as a prostitute, then met the "spies", helped them in their hiding, and eventually married one of them. And Miriam, who bravely stood up for Moses who was supposed to have been killed.

This is the most interesting FJ topic....... :)

[ladyamylynn]

Here's an embarrassing question: What was the dominant religion in Persia at the time?

A quick, short answer is fine; I don't know how to google things like that without getting bogged down with too much information that assumes I have a particular understanding or perspective already. I have zero understanding or perspective about ancient religions, except for Greek, Roman, Norse mythology in the most generic way possible. I've been out of school a long time. :embarrassed:

Probably Zoroastrianism.

[halcionne]

Deborah, Anna, Esther, Ruth, Priscilla, those are mine. Deborah was a real leader, and her husband supported her in the background. Priscilla is always mentioned before her husband Aquila, but they seemed to have been a strong team. Anna I relate to except I hope never to get that old! But, she was a widow WAY longer than she was married, and she must've endured a whole lot of you-know-what for that! After all, I guess living in the temple was the only option for her if she didn't have sons to care for her and her parents were dead. Esther, because she risked her life; never really thought much about that, especially when, after her praying and fasting "if I perish I perish". Ruth, also a widow, who took a brave step in going with Naomi, even though her parents would've likely welcomed her back too, and found a new husband for her.(or maybe she wanted to be sure she wouldn't end up with one who already had wives?)

I may think of more. Some can melt my heart like Rahab. She began as a prostitute, then met the "spies", helped them in their hiding, and eventually married one of them. And Miriam, who bravely stood up for Moses who was supposed to have been killed.

This is the most interesting FJ topic....... :)

You mentioned some I had forgotten, and I don't know many of their stories very well, if I know them at all. I like the story of Esther because (when I read it many years ago) it came across to me as a good example of the power of subversive tactics. I love subversion, being a nonconfrontational person myself, and I think it's a great strategy for people who don't have a lot of obvious power otherwise.

[chaotic life]

My youngest daughter's middle name is Hadassah. She named both for a strong queen and for her brother's heritage as Hadassah is a common name in West Africa.

Junia is named in scripture as a female Apostle, her ranking is not given as less than the make Apostles of her time. Susanna and Johanna followed Jesus and stayed when the men were afraid and ran away. They were the first to see the risen Jesus (if you believe the NT).

[eri]

I'm not putting this in the Duggar thread, because it's more of a general fundie topic, even though Jessa's announcement inspired my post.

I haven't studied the bible much, but I often wonder about fundies' baby naming practices. There are many fine names in the bible, but fundies definitely have their favorites. As a feminist, I have a different idea of which biblical woman I might name a daughter after. But, like I said, I haven't read enough of the bible to know who these women are.

Esther is a figure I know and admire, and fundies do, too. Deborah and Jael seem pretty cool, but I haven't read much about them. Love Mary Magdalene, but I suspect she still has a bad reputation with fundies.

Anyway. I want your thoughts on bible heroines, FJ. I found this entertaining link: womeninthebible.net/ but I can't tell what the site owner's religious stance or personal biases might be. From the "Heroines" page (I don't know Rahab's story at all):

I'm very interested in which women might be more highly esteemed in different denominations, if that makes sense, and from a Jewish or Muslim perspective, too.

Esther is the anti-feminist to Vashti's feminist.

The Book of Esther makes me sad. "Stand up to your husband? Lose everything you love. Win a sex contest? Become the king's favorite."

[GenerationCedarchip]

Hannah is one that always makes me feel such a bittersweet mix of emotions. She yearns and yearns for a child, but then when she finally gets Samuel, he is dedicated to the temple and so she doesn't really get to raise him. From the text, you can tell that the journey to the temple is far, so she rarely even sees him and the thought of that makes me so sad. She does get blessed with other children after Samuel and her husband loves her, so her story has happy parts, too.

Priscilla/Prisca is one from the New Testament that I've always liked. She is always mentioned with her husband, Aquila, and they together worked with Paul spreading the Gospel. It's clear from Paul's letters that he valued them both and he seems to see them both equally. From what I know of the history of the early church, it took a lot of courage to do what they did, and it's the strength and courage I admire. I wish the Bible had more information about them, though.

[ladyamylynn]

I was always fascinated by Damaris, the Athenian noble woman who converted following a speech by Paul. It's speculated that she was an educated courtesan.

[halcionne]

Esther is the anti-feminist to Vashti's feminist.

The Book of Esther makes me sad. "Stand up to your husband? Lose everything you love. Win a sex contest? Become the king's favorite."

Is it possible to admire them both? Honest question.

[eri]

Is it possible to admire them both? Honest question.

Absolutely not. Otherwise I would have to ask why you are on a Duggar snark forum.

[halcionne]

Absolutely not. Otherwise I would have to ask why you are on a Duggar snark forum.

Are you having fun with me? Because last time I thought we were having fun when it suddenly turned ugly. :?

I'm not ready to choose between Esther and Vashti. What do you think of Judith, "beautiful, but deadly" womeninthebible.net/heroines.htm#JUDITH

[onlyme]

Well, Esther risked her life to entreat the king to intervene for her people. I think what really gets fundie attention is the line "and if I perish, I perish." so ready for martyrdom.

Abigail held David off from committing senseless mass murder by bringing food and acknowledging the fact that her husband was an ass. Somehow that part always gets left out of the books on submission.

The Bible simply doesn't have enough names for girls though, if I had a nickle for every Hannah....

[2xx1xy1JD]

Miriam is considered to be a prophet in her own right.

Deborah and Yael kick ass.

Esther and Vashti go together in mind. Vashti shows the dire consequences of defying the king, the awful mindset of his advisors and the relative lack of power of women in that setting. Esther shows how, knowing all that, she was still brave enough to stick her neck out to save her people.

[ophelia]

I really like the name Miriam. And Yael, altough it is not that easy to pronounce in German. And it doesn't go well with my family name which I, the evil feminist that I am, intend to keep.

[formergothardite]

Miriam is considered to be a prophet in her own right.

Deborah and Yael kick ass.

Esther and Vashti go together in mind. Vashti shows the dire consequences of defying the king, the awful mindset of his advisors and the relative lack of power of women in that setting. Esther shows how, knowing all that, she was still brave enough to stick her neck out to save her people.

ITA. Both women were brave in handling the circumstances they were put it. Esther did win a sex contest(something that I did not realize till I was an adult. :embarrassed: Growing up it was explained as she went and had dinner with the king.), but it isn't like she was a reality tv star willingly going into this, she was forced against her will and then was willing to die for the opportunity to save the lives of her people.

In Luke there is a group of women who travel with Jesus(no mention of their husbands traveling) and support him using their own money. Fundies rarely(if at all) discuss these women and if they do they treat it like they do Deborah and say that the husbands were there and the women totally were still being keepers at home. :roll:

[GenerationCedarchip]

ITA. Both women were brave in handling the circumstances they were put it. Esther did win a sex contest(something that I did not realize till I was an adult. :embarrassed: Growing up it was explained as she went and had dinner with the king.), but it isn't like she was a reality tv star willingly going into this, she was forced against her will and then was willing to die for the opportunity to save the lives of her people.

In Luke there is a group of women who travel with Jesus(no mention of their husbands traveling) and support him using their own money. Fundies rarely(if at all) discuss these women and if they do they treat it like they do Deborah and say that the husbands were there and the women totally were still being keepers at home. :roll:

I didn't know that until I was grown, either. The story of Esther was often trotted out in Sunday school classes, but we were always taught that she went to meet the king and that they would have talked long into the night so he could get to know her.

[halcionne]

I found the author of the website I've been browsing--Elizabeth Fletcher. Her book is called Women in the Bible: A Historical Approach. Her writing is enjoyable and accessible to this layperson.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Well, Esther risked her life to entreat the king to intervene for her people. I think what really gets fundie attention is the line "and if I perish, I perish." so ready for martyrdom.

Abigail held David off from committing senseless mass murder by bringing food and acknowledging the fact that her husband was an ass. Somehow that part always gets left out of the books on submission.

The Bible simply doesn't have enough names for girls though, if I had a nickle for every Hannah....

Hannah seemed to be really common for a while among women who had gone through infertility. One person posts a story about how she finally has her miracle baby and posts it online, then everyone else reads the story and thinks that's the perfect name if they've gone through something similar. [Girl 2 is not Hannah, but that's pretty much the way I gave her a "unique and meaningful" name which has since skyrocketed in popularity.]

[Trynn]

I saw this thread and had to blink a bit because I thought it said "biblical heroin."

[sockinshoe]

Interesting fact about Rahab: In Dante's divine comedy, he places her in the Heaven of Venus because she was so generous, giving, and loving. I always admired that literary choice.

I think my favourite Biblical heroine names are Judith, Naomi, Hannah, and Yael. Unfortunately, I can't really see myself naming a child any of those. One of them is my given name and the others are either family names or difficult for my foreign relatives to pronounce. I've also always enjoyed the passage of Exodus where Tzipporah has to perform an emergency circumcision (always gave me the giggles).