Things that make your head explode

[BrownieMomma]

So tonight I took my teens to see the movie "Freakonomics." Never read the book but have read excerpts here and there.

One segment talked about crime increasing in the 80's and 90's and it was predicted crime would continue to increase but then it didn't. It actually started to go down.

Levitt's reasoning was Roe v. Wade, he compared it to Romania's Coceaseu (sp) who had outlawed abortions and basically forced a lot of women to get pregnant and have babies they didn't want.

When they were talking about reasons for the decrease in crime, I was thinking it was related to population but I did not expect that! It really did bring to mind the accusation that Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist who wanted to reduce minority populations although of course Levitt said he wasn't being racist, that his finding applied to all mothers from all backgrounds.

Less unwanted babies meant less crime 15 years later.

I wonder if he has an explanation for the decrease in teen pregnancy.

My 16yo and 14yo were paying close attention the entire time. Mommy win :D Great discussions were held afterwards.

[Coco]

Love the book and the npr spots! i saw the movie on netflix about a year ago. It turned my queue into a business documentary-fest. :D They definitely have some interesting ideas. So did you see it in a theater? Did the theater have the "pay what you want to" thing going on?

[DGayle]

It makes sense. If you force women who don't want babies to have them, when most are already poor, you create more poverty, and poverty leads to crime by people just trying to stay alive. Wealthier women have always had access to abortive methods. Bans affect the poor most of all.

[Ivycoveredtower]

It makes sense. If you force women who don't want babies to have them, when most are already poor, you create more poverty, and poverty leads to crime by people just trying to stay alive. Wealthier women have always had access to abortive methods. Bans affect the poor most of all.

and the whole adoption thing is tricky. Say there is a girl who doesn't want a child but is convinced abortion is bad and that maybe she should go for adoption. many woman once they actually have the child can't/won't go through with the adoption because they become attached and think they can do it when really they can't and then the child is left with a mother who can't really care for them but doesn't want someone else to or is convinced she can. Then the child ends up in Foster care or worse it's a crazy cycle.

[It'sFunToRun]

It makes sense. If you force women who don't want babies to have them, when most are already poor, you create more poverty, and poverty leads to crime by people just trying to stay alive. Wealthier women have always had access to abortive methods. Bans affect the poor most of all.

It makes sense for middle class and rich women too. If they don't want to have a baby but are forced to, then they are probably going to be worse mothers so then the children would have worse childhoods and be more inclined to crime. I've read on the internet a lot of people saying "I don't ever want to have kids because I was abused by my parents and I'm afraid I'd continue the cycle." Or "I don't want to have kids because I know that I have an anger problem and not enough patience to be a good parent."

[Jana814]

It makes sense. If you force women who don't want babies to have them, when most are already poor, you create more poverty, and poverty leads to crime by people just trying to stay alive. Wealthier women have always had access to abortive methods. Bans affect the poor most of all.

Have to agree w/ u.

[BrownieMomma]

It makes sense for middle class and rich women too. If they don't want to have a baby but are forced to, then they are probably going to be worse mothers so then the children would have worse childhoods and be more inclined to crime. I've read on the internet a lot of people saying "I don't ever want to have kids because I was abused by my parents and I'm afraid I'd continue the cycle." Or "I don't want to have kids because I know that I have an anger problem and not enough patience to be a good parent."

If I understood correctly what they were saying, it's not even so much about poverty. It's about the mother wanting the child. Apparently unwanted children are more likely to become criminals. But idk, I think about that kid who drove drunk and plowed in to some people who were stranded on the side of the road, killing them.. and the kid got off due to "affluenza." I imagine that kid was wanted by his parents, they are wealthy... but maybe the difference is that he didn't set out to commit a crime? It just happened due to him being completely utterly selfish?

I saw the movie at a university theater, it was sponsored by a few campus groups so it was free to the public. Very nice deal.

No one at my church would get it, because we are supposed to go church no matter what, but I am really truly glad I took my teens to that movie even though it meant missing church.

[nausicaa]

If I understood correctly what they were saying, it's not even so much about poverty. It's about the mother wanting the child. Apparently unwanted children are more likely to become criminals. But idk, I think about that kid who drove drunk and plowed in to some people who were stranded on the side of the road, killing them.. and the kid got off due to "affluenza." I imagine that kid was wanted by his parents, they are wealthy... but maybe the difference is that he didn't set out to commit a crime? It just happened due to him being completely utterly selfish?

I guess it depends on your definition of "unwanted."That affluenza kid reminded me of the kids I would meet when I was a nanny in a really wealthy area for a little girl who went to a super posh private school. It was shocking how many wealthy, well educated people had unwanted kids. Sure their kids were fed and clothed, but many had no bed times, no guidance, no rules, day and night nannies so they never actually saw their parents (just to be clear, the parents of the girl I nannied were great and not like this at all).

In one case it was pretty clear the parents had adopted their two kids to further a potential political career. They had no idea what the kids were into in terms of shows/toys/music/food, and couldn't stand to be alone with their children. Both parents were retired from corporate jobs, yet they had a day nanny, a cook, a tutor, and a weekend nanny. When the children were babies there had been a night attendant as well for feedings/changings. I stayed with them for four days once (God help me...) and never actually saw the mother interact with the kids, let alone touch one of them, and the father just treated them like a nuisance when he paid any attention at all. It was insane. And really, really sad.

The kids weren't unwanted in terms of a surprise pregnancy, so access to abortion wouldn't really reduce situations like this. But there are definitely unwanted wealthy kids. The fact that the affluenza kid had his own house when he was 15 makes me think it was a situation like the one above. I also believe both parents in that case had criminal histories of theft, assault, aggressive driving, domestic abuse. S

[BrownieMomma]

Not quoting all of the above but agreeing, I guess it depends on how you define "wanted." I do know people who have children because it is expected, some like those politicos you mentioned but also I once had a pastor and his wife who adopted three children but I swear, he was a terrible father. This was a Pearl church, as passed around by the ladies, the pastor never specifically talked about the Pearls from the pulpit but still. It did cross my mind sometimes that he adopted those kids to further his career as a pastor.

I know when I think of crime wave I think of things happening in the streets, in poorer neighborhoods but things happen in better neighborhoods too and I also agree that reduction by abortion is unlikely to happen however the net effect is the same - kids who are not really wanted growing up to either exhibit criminal behavior or just be jerky douchebags, be they man or woman.

[Jana814]

That is so sad when I read about what has been posted above about people have kids in order to further their careers. (A Simpsons episode comes to mind when Troy McClure marries Marge's sister Selma to further his career & then wants to have a kid for the same reason).

[nausicaa]

Not quoting all of the above but agreeing, I guess it depends on how you define "wanted." I do know people who have children because it is expected, some like those politicos you mentioned but also I once had a pastor and his wife who adopted three children but I swear, he was a terrible father. This was a Pearl church, as passed around by the ladies, the pastor never specifically talked about the Pearls from the pulpit but still. It did cross my mind sometimes that he adopted those kids to further his career as a pastor.

I know when I think of crime wave I think of things happening in the streets, in poorer neighborhoods but things happen in better neighborhoods too and I also agree that reduction by abortion is unlikely to happen however the net effect is the same - kids who are not really wanted growing up to either exhibit criminal behavior or just be jerky douchebags, be they man or woman.

I definitely agree that poverty only exacerbates things, but I can see a lot of the neglected wealthy kids turning to hard drugs, drinking and driving, and/or domestic violence as they get older. And not being able to hold down a job so their parents provide them with a sinecure or they just take hand outs from them. So while they wouldn't be on welfare or in a gang necessarily, I would still consider them unproductive members of society at best, and an actual drain at worst.

[nausicaa]

That is so sad when I read about what has been posted above about people have kids in order to further their careers. (A Simpsons episode comes to mind when Troy McClure marries Marge's sister Selma to further his career & then wants to have a kid for the same reason).

It was really sad. And the daughter, who was my charge's age, was a real sweetheart when I was one-on-one with her. She's now at a boarding school and nearly 18. I hope she can get herself a diploma from a respected university and then make a good, independent life for herself with that. Unfortunately the son is not doing well at all.