Daughter training

[joe_mulcahy]

The reason they probably have far more books on training daughters than training sons is because men in this movement are morons who can't be trained to do anything but act like overgrown toddlers with a sex drive. Hence, with their religion to back them up, these men are used to getting everything they demand whenever want. Because you can't trust your spoiled toddler with a sex drive to cook, clean, cross-stitch or do anything other than make demands, there are few books geared toward training sons.

I'm so glad to not have been born to fundie parents, as I happen to LOVE cooking! One of my favourite toys as a child was an oven (that my dad painted black and white so that it would look like a real cooker instead of that Pepto Bismol pink thing geared towards girls only).

[joe_mulcahy]

Sorry about double posting, but since I can't delete the extra post altogether, I'll try and edit this to say something sort of worthwhile.

I dread to think how much materials of this type must have been used as part of the Duggar J'slaves's curriculum in lieu of proper educational materials that could have helped them in life? Not helped them through College Minus, but helped them make it through a real college and with a career outside the home. After all, didn't Bill Gothard's own brother abandon his wife and seven children? What if the husbands of one of these "trained" daughters similarly leaves her flat with several children to raise? These materials will do her no good if she has to raise those kids on her own.

[maybeizfundie]

Is it quite practical then?

I was thinking it would be kinda full of feminine / submissive stuff.

Well, it is that.

I haven't had it out since we moved, but what I remember thinking about it is that even though I already know all this stuff (being a well-trained daughter, lol) it would help me figure out how to convey those skills to my kids.

'Course, I got it and it was published before Google, YouTube, and e-books. I don't think I'd buy it, now.

[Kaylee]

The handful of books like this I've flipped through have all seemed more like guides than real instruction. Most have maybe a page or two on the topic, and suggest finding other resources for actual teaching. I have a copy of "Keepers at Home" somewhere that lists everything from character traits to homemaking skills to exercises, and is more like a list of merit badge ideas for a scouting program that anything else. I think things like that would good for stuff to add to homeschooling or for extra activities to do together, but it's a shame to think some people are using them as a substitute for an actual education.

If I was to try to write or implement some sort of homemaker "training" program, I'd probably use things like "Home Comforts" (a great book on housekeeping), one or two of the better hospitality books, "The Joy of Cooking", the Ball Blue Book (for canning & food preservation), maybe another book or two on baking & arranging food, a local sewing class, the old "Singer Sewing Book", a book or two on decorating, one of the etiquette guides that also gives information on place settings and things for entertaining, and Dr. Sears' Baby Book plus a few books on natural birth & breastfeeding if he's interested once she gets older. Most of that is stuff I ended up having to teach myself as a got older, and I also plan on teaching my son at least the basics of most things because it's just a shame that there are grown men (and women) who cannot cook a meal or fix a button or a hem.

[fundies_like_zombies]

I think it would be interesting to read it or polished cornerstones just to see what they are teaching their daughters. Just to see how restrictive it is and if it reads as indoctrination.

[Avalondaughter]

I have a food blog and of course read many other food blogs. I have found that many foodies are REALLY into the canning and preserving thing, often canning what they take from their own gardens.

Most of these folks are secular, liberal treehugger types. It's always funny to see how these types can converge!

[Burris]

Some sound like good things to have in your character but other like meekness were crazy and others like obedience is more like dog training.

I don't know that meekness is a bad quality - and, interestingly enough, it's usually associated with men in the Bible. Women are told to cultivate "a meek and quiet spirit," because such is precious in the sight of God, but men like Moses and Jesus are described as being meek.

There was a time when meekness was taught specifically to men, for example by Matthew Henry, who wrote A Discourse on Meekness and Quietness of Spirit - a title that referred to a verse about women, but which Henry applied to the menfolk as well.

Henry even has a chapter devoted to "When Meekness is Especially Required," where he begins his list with the comment meekness is necessary when giving reproof (i.e., dressing someone down).

Nancy Leigh DeMoss and her utterly shameless cash-cow of a "ministry," Revive Our Hearts, took a newer reprint of Henry's book on meekness, where the title has been changed ever so slightly - y'know, so as to avoid any confusion with the free version in the public domain - and aimed the message in it specifically at women (e.g., here, in the original broadcast; and here ).

I wish I were meek. I never stop trying, but I can never quite get a grip on it. When some people aim for meekness, they simply come off as passive-aggressive - an outcome I am all too happy to avoid. But real meekness - now there's a thing to chase after.

People like Mark Driscoll (and his "prize fighter" Jesus) would do well to remember the meek will inherit the Earth.

[fundies_like_zombies]

I kinda feel like the fundy girls meekness is like doormat training not just not being prideful.

Which is the craziest daughter training book? I want to read one for real! lol!!

[Mommy22alyns]

I have the Level One Pearables book for girls. They actually do have a series for boys too. http://www.christianbook.com/lessons-re ... ew=details

Anyway, the book for girls covers simple things like:

Vacuuming

Sweeping

Washing dishes

Using the stove

Learning to peel

Really basic stuff at the Level One (6 and up). A tiny bit of organization and sewing too. I really need to get off my duff and implement this with the girls.

[aggythenostic]

I thought that was learning to pee, and I was all - dou have to teach girls how to pee? LOL

I'm sorry, but so much of this seems well, simple to learn on your own. You just SHOW them. My mother worked full time and she managed to show me how to push a vacuum cleaner around, and how to wash a dish. It's not that hard. Really.

[alphaeta08]

I thought that was learning to pee, and I was all - dou have to teach girls how to pee? LOL

Oh my God, I thought the exact same thing! I was like, "Well, hopefully you have that figured out pretty early." :lol:

And I agree, I knew how to do all those things by age... eight, despite my mom never saying, "Okay, we're going to learn to vacuum today!" If you live with someone who does these things, you'll figure it out without a training course. :roll:

[kb2]

Seriously, learning to peel? Don't you learn to peel stuff by putting a knife/peeler in one hand and a piece of fruit/vegetable in the other? Do you need a book for that?

I really...I just don't get it. I've become a bit of a champ lately at not dropping the potato in the trash while I'm peeling it, mostly by dropping a bunch of potatoes in the trash and going, ARRGGH, and then debating whether the trash is clean enough to fish it out or if we were going to be down one potato. But I just don't know how a book is going to teach you the hand-eye coordination. Even if it's all like, "Now, hold the potato firmly so it doesn't fall in the trash while you peel it," you know you gotta accidently drop it a few times anyway. You need the aggravation of a history of lost potatoes to hold it firmly enough, I really don't think there's any other way.

[GeoBQn]

Whenever people describe home ec skills as "women's work" or getting a "PhD in Homemaking," I think of my dad telling me about when he moved into his first apartment. (His parents were from a Jewish immigrant background where children lived with their parents until marriage--and sometimes during the early years of their marriage as well. When he announced he was moving out at age 24, his father responded, "Why move out when you can live here for free?!?") On the first day in the apartment, his roommate patted him on the shoulder and said, "GeoBDad, I am going to teach you everything you need to know about living on your own." For the next week, he learned how to do laundry, how to clean up stains on different services, how to boil water and cook meat, etc. It wasn't a glamorous life, but he had all the lifeskills he needed. Growing up, my dad was the one who cleaned the house and taught me how to do laundry.

Just as we wonder how fundy women would cope financially if the husband died or left, I have to wonder what fundy men would do without their wives. When Nebraska had that child abandonment law fiasco, there was a famous case of a 34-year-old father abandoning his 9 children, ages 17 to 1. He said he did it because his wife had died and he didn't know how to take care of his kids.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/tri ... ves-n.html

[Deleted12]

I really...I just don't get it. I've become a bit of a champ lately at not dropping the potato in the trash while I'm peeling it, mostly by dropping a bunch of potatoes in the trash and going, ARRGGH, and then debating whether the trash is clean enough to fish it out or if we were going to be down one potato. But I just don't know how a book is going to teach you the hand-eye coordination. Even if it's all like, "Now, hold the potato firmly so it doesn't fall in the trash while you peel it," you know you gotta accidently drop it a few times anyway. You need the aggravation of a history of lost potatoes to hold it firmly enough, I really don't think there's any other way.

The Lord put it upon my heart that I need to reproach you with a meek and gentle spirit and suggest that maybe you should peel the potatoes over the sink? :P

[Dinorah]

The idea that you'd need 7 years to garner homemaking skills is ridiculous. Plenty of people study, work and run homes, it's not that hard. I'm not going to win "homemaker of the year" anytime soon, but I'm quite a good cook and was never actually taught to, I learned by watching my parents do it and learned quickly by myself when I left home.

[maybeizfundie]

I wonder if these books are directed at folks who for whatever reason didn't pick things up in their childhood, and may be worried they won't be able to pass along the skills to their children? In a lot of ways, many of the women in the generation before mine who "went fundie" did so in "rebellion" to their mother's generation who'd rebelled against the whole homemaker thing.

If you think about it as a natural part of childhood learning, well, it does end up taking 7 years (or more), learning gradually, starting with simple things and increasing in skill as you get older. It's just not formal "lessons" from a book.

[Confused_by_religion]

The idea that you'd need 7 years to garner homemaking skills is ridiculous. Plenty of people study, work and run homes, it's not that hard. I'm not going to win "homemaker of the year" anytime soon, but I'm quite a good cook and was never actually taught to, I learned by watching my parents do it and learned quickly by myself when I left home.

Well, if you want to teach your daughter to be a master gardener, rock at cross-stitch and sew their bras by hand, it might take a while. I guess the purpose is to make it seem as if these girls got a really good education comparable to evil worldly degrees. And then it would be deeply symbolic. Didn't this old testament guy wait seven years until he could marry this girl? And wouldn't that be a splendid example to any impatient SAHD or eager young man?

[Bookworm89]

Why do thy need books to learn to do all of that, and why do they think public school won't teach it.When I was in the 8th grade everyone was required to take cooking, sewing, woodworking, and metalworking. 9th grade you picked two of the four to learn that year, same with 10th grade. They think they girls need 7 years to learn all of that. I learned it in half that time and while in public school most of the day.

[kb2]

The Lord put it upon my heart that I need to reproach you with a meek and gentle spirit and suggest that maybe you should peel the potatoes over the sink? :P

But then I would have to get all the dirty dishes out of it. :D

[nuri]

Why do thy need books to learn to do all of that, and why do they think public school won't teach it.When I was in the 8th grade everyone was required to take cooking, sewing, woodworking, and metalworking. 9th grade you picked two of the four to learn that year, same with 10th grade. They think they girls need 7 years to learn all of that. I learned it in half that time and while in public school most of the day.

Not all schools are able to offer those classes anymore. That's actually a really intensive family and consumer science courseload for a curriculum. The middle school my husband is at doesn't offer any home ec/shop type classes, which was when I took it.

Count me as a person who could use an adult course in home ec though. I never learned as a kid, and I learn best in a class setting. Trying to do it on my own as an adult is frustrating.

[maybeizfundie]

Yeah, those were definitely not required classes in my public highschool. I'm not even sure they had a home-ec course. And wood/metalworking was considered something for the vo-tech kids who didn't care about academics but had to fill their schedules.

[fundies_like_zombies]

Forgot Polished Cornerstones too that looks like a huge book.

I don't know much 'bout cleaning and schedules and stuff. Maybe I need a course!!

[fundies_like_zombies]

Seen that there is a study on beautiful girlhood starting ..... that book sounds so old fashioned! lol!! Not sure what they get out of it now.

btwixtandbtweenblog.com/wordpress/?p=1688

[lilwriter85]

My homeschooled daughter and sons are raised the same. They all cook, clean, do dishes etc. The boys walk the dogs and the girl does the cat litter, only because they worked it out themselves that way.

I am teaching my daughter to be a strong woman who can do whatever she wants in her life. She likes to sew(lady gaga clothes for barbies) and she plays hockey and is a green belt in Tae Kwon do. She wouldn't wear a frumper unless I paid her to go undercover at a Maxwell convention(she probably still wouldn't). I cannot imagine training my daughter to think she is LESS than her brothers. She is against the fundie lifestyle and gets as mad as I do when women are held back.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a food blog and of course read many other food blogs. I have found that many foodies are REALLY into the canning and preserving thing, often canning what they take from their own gardens.

Most of these folks are secular, liberal treehugger types. It's always funny to see how these types can converge!

Foodies can and do preserve a lot of stuff. I did the country living grow it all hippy thing over 20 years ago. And up to this year I grew most of it, but, at the age of 60 I have a different direction with my life. Yea I'll whip up a confit d'oie, if the mood strikes me. I will still dry tomatos. But its not a vocation. Now its more project oriented. I'll make real kim chi in the fall simply because I like one superb jar of kim chi in the spring. Because I canned so extensively in past years, I do prefer to purchase quality mass produced products, and spend my time doing other things. Besides one's palate gets kinda dull if you are consuming the same version of tomato sauce month in and out. Farm to market and local growers, provide a greater variety of fruit and produce than I can grow myself. I get to pick and choose, freeze some, maybe put up a couple of jars of jam.

Politically I'm left of Mother Jones and I've been called a crunchy granola type by some that don't understand my changing disguises. When I stalk frumpers I do like to wear leopard print high heels, just to put an edge on it :dance: