So, I was walking the Mall of America

[bekkah]

I saw this store and I had to take a double take. It boasted the "tradition of american boyhood". I COULDN'T believe that this was sitting in the mall of america. Here is the link with full description : [link=]http://www.mallofamerica.com/shopping/directory/jm-cremps[/link] Not breaking link b/c it is the mall of america website.

It has just so many Tool references!

[Sydney Fox]

Here's the on-line catalog. Sooo Tooly! Dougie, is that you?

jmcremps.com

*edited to put in the proper link

[Maggie Mae]

Here's the company website. It looks rather, uh, familiar. jmcremps.com/

[bekkah]

Maybe he rebranded? So that he could get the FJites off his back :P

[Maggie Mae]

It looks like JM Cremps has been around since at least 2010.

http://www.herald-journal.com/archives/ ... splin.html

But, I can't help but note the similarities in both the language, the layout, and even the photo on the front of the "adventure" catalogue to the stuff that Vision Forum and Hazardous Journeys peddled.

[thoughtful]

I think that's the company that may have bought a lot of the VF merchandise during the closing process.

ETA -- there was some discussion of the possible connection here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19945&start=620#p652204

TrueRebel1 posted that she got an ad from Cremps that was sent to her via VF.

[nelliebelle1197]

I think that's the company that may have bought a lot of the VF merchandise during the closing process.

ETA -- there was some discussion of the possible connection here:

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... 20#p652204

TrueRebel1 posted that she got an ad from Cremps that was sent to her via VF.

I am sure it is!

[Savoring Samsara]

A friend of mine, upon being at MOA and seeing that store, said, "Traditions of American Boyhood? Do they sell old Playboys?"

[artdecades]

once again, girls don't like adventure. Something about this site makes it seem like its a survivalist store masquerading as a boys adventure store.

This product really irks me, even though its par for the course in these circles.

jmcremps.com/No-Girls-Allowed-Devotions-for-Boys/productinfo/15678/#.Ut8XQGTTmuU

the description

STOP! Before you open this book, make sure there are no sisters, neighbor girls, or anybody else around who's wearing pink.

Obviously girls don't understand all the stuff that's important to you and what's going on in your life. But have you ever wondered if God does? Check out the devotions, cartoons, and puzzles in this book to find out more about who God is…and who He wants you to be!

And if you catch any snoopy girls trying to read this book, just tell them… NO GIRLS ALLOWED!

lol cuz girls are gossips and wear pink right :angry-banghead:

[Trynn]

once again, girls don't like adventure. Something about this site makes it seem like its a survivalist store masquerading as a boys adventure store.

This product really irks me, even though its par for the course in these circles.

jmcremps.com/No-Girls-Allowed-Devotions-for-Boys/productinfo/15678/#.Ut8XQGTTmuU

the description

lol cuz girls are gossips and wear pink right :angry-banghead:

That just... Really pissed me off.

[already hungover]

That just... Really pissed me off.

I don't have children and likely never will, but if any kid of mine - male or female - ever espoused this brand of overt sexism, we'd be having a come-to-Jesus meeting REAL quick. I'm hesitant to say that I'd outright ban any books from my house, but this one is cutting it close.

Seriously, it's not 1935 anymore.

[JesusFightClub]

It's this false dichotomy - girls are pink, alien creatures who can never understand a Real Boy .

"Featuring stories about everything from sports to superheroes, this colorful resource addresses a variety of boyhood-related themes---including bullying, being a good sport, generosity, and church participation."

Girls don't have anything to do with those themes, of course.

And I loved the reviews. "My son took great delight in making his sisters leave the room when he read it!" :angry-banghead:

There's an equally stupid one "For Girls Only": "This devotional will help girls ages 8-12 apply biblical concepts to their daily lives. Each devotion is written and designed with today’s tween and her issues in mind."

I notice that one doesn't tell girls to stop any snoopy boys reading the book, because that wouldn't be very submissive and help-meet worthy, would it now. However, it features "whimsical and girl-centric art" which is apparently very important. :roll:

[Cleopatra7]

I don't have children and likely never will, but if any kid of mine - male or female - ever espoused this brand of overt sexism, we'd be having a come-to-Jesus meeting REAL quick. I'm hesitant to say that I'd outright ban any books from my house, but this one is cutting it close.

Seriously, it's not 1935 anymore.

The "logic" of this seems to be if girls like a thing or want to participate in an activity, then boys won't want to do it. I've heard the same arguments for why there should only be altar boys and why there should be an all-male priesthood in the RCC, because if women start doing stuff, men/boys won't come to church. If God is so into having a boys only club, then why does it matter if women go to church? Probably if women stopped going to church, then they'd be blamed for setting a bad example for their husbands and sons. No matter what the situation is, it's always the woman's fault.

[Trynn]

Personally, there's no better way to get me to read something than to tell me I can't. Especially when I was a child, I'd have made sure to steal that book at some point.

I actually read a book called "on becoming a man." Because I desperately wanted to be one and enjoyed running around telling people, seriously upsetting one of the parents at my school. Her kid had been sexually abused, and it was implied that that was he source of the discomfort, at least, partially. Which I don't get anymore, all of a sudden, because I never mentioned sex when I talked about wanting to be a man...

I delighted in doing stereotypically male things and shunning girls things just so I could be different, and less... Well, undesirable. Plus it tended to confuse people, which I loved doing.

[tenth muse]

once again, girls don't like adventure. Something about this site makes it seem like its a survivalist store masquerading as a boys adventure store.

This product really irks me, even though its par for the course in these circles.

jmcremps.com/No-Girls-Allowed-Devotions-for-Boys/productinfo/15678/#.Ut8XQGTTmuU

the description

lol cuz girls are gossips and wear pink right :angry-banghead:

....A misogynistic jerk?

[dairyfreelife]

That description sounds like something primary school male students think...eww, girls. Pink and cooties, girls are so weird and gross. They tend to grow out of it by middle school at the latest when most decide...um, girls. I like them.

[MamaJunebug]

+1's to what JFC and Cleo7 said.

This whole thing being at MOA disturbs me - Minnesota and Wisconsin, I always think of them as the progressive lights of the Midwest.

The whole thing of boys vs girls is so familiar and so old. Having lived most of the 1950s to date, the idea of turning boys into manly boys is not new. Nor is the energy with which the cremps books take on the task.

Any boy who wasn't a little wild and unruly was "a problem." He had to be toughened up, couldn't be allowed to approach "sissy" status -- and what better way to fix the root problem than to separate him from female influences?

"Momma's boy" was as bad an epithet during my grade-school years as "mf" is now.

A "normal, snips'n'snails'n'puppy-dog's tails" boy wouldn't need the cremps "make all the girls leave before your open this" book, although such a boy might savor the fact that he is bigger and badder than girls and thus can make them disappear temporarily.

No, the cremps book would most plausibly be shoved into the hands of a boy like my cousin, who at age 11 loved playing with just-sitting-up me. (We have home movies, they're so precious to me.) This cousin had plenty of boys around him, and he liked them just fine, but he just wasn't interested in their running and jumping and knocking-things-over and seeing who could throw a rock farthest.

His idea of a good time was playing with Little Junebug. He enjoyed watching a baby human learn things, and helping her take the next step in growing up. He never swerved from that, and of course he's the one who's been with his fella even longer than my TSU and I have been married.

He is the one the concerned uncles (most of the aunts weren't too concerned) and his father would've pushed the cremps book on. "See, Cousin, you don't like girls. Because you are NOT LIKE a girl. Do you understand that?? You must understand that!"

This attitude exists to this day in the conservative religious circles I'm tangentially connected to. Women are easily deceived, women are weak willed. "Men will leave the church in droves rather than listen to a woman preach" or even "... be shown to their seat by a woman usher .... receive an offering plate passed by a woman usher ...." -- I heard those things all my life and still do, from certain ones.

Funny thing is, I've attended liberal Christian churches, and a Unitarian church and an Ethical assembly led by women, and the congregations are all 50-50 in gender makeup. It's at my conservative congregation that the makeup skews slightly to more females. Go figure.

But I digress and digress some more. cremps reflects nothing new but it's distressing to realize it's still around and still so obvious.

Some men - and women - feel the need to butch up their boys, and if making the boys physically remove girls from their presence is part of that, so be it. And so be it especially when it comes to religion, because you can't have girls learning alongside boys ... why, they all might get the idea that any old body can understand and embrace and eventually teach and preach that religion!

And moreover: if you make boys think that religion really belongs to THEM, they'll take over ably and voluntarily and you won't have to even consider thinking about women in leadership roles!

PS, I'm not confining my sadness to Christian sects who hammer away at gender separation. It's my understanding that there are quite a few in Judaism and Islam who do the same thing. It's pandemic. :doh:

[constantgardener]

That description sounds like something primary school male students think...eww, girls. Pink and cooties, girls are so weird and gross. They tend to grow out of it by middle school at the latest when most decide...um, girls. I like them.

Surprising how quickly they change, isn't it? Six months ago my 9-yr-old son would have been 'ugh, girls' but just admitted the other night that he 'would quite like a girlfriend'! And my younger son obviously didn't realise he wasn't conforming to the correct gender stereotype yesterday when he and I spent some time looking at pics of cute baby animals on the internet. :lol:

[Maggie Mae]

I noticed that the girl's book includes such fun activities as "to do lists" and "quizzes" where as the boys get crossword puzzles and secret codes to break. Because girls, what, don't want to do a crossword or break a secret code? Pro-tip: Not all boys like the same things. Same goes for girls.

[bekkah]

+1's to what JFC and Cleo7 said.

This whole thing being at MOA disturbs me - Minnesota and Wisconsin, I always think of them as the progressive lights of the Midwest.

The whole thing of boys vs girls is so familiar and so old. Having lived most of the 1950s to date, the idea of turning boys into manly boys is not new. Nor is the energy with which the cremps books take on the task.

Any boy who wasn't a little wild and unruly was "a problem." He had to be toughened up, couldn't be allowed to approach "sissy" status -- and what better way to fix the root problem than to separate him from female influences?

"Momma's boy" was as bad an epithet during my grade-school years as "mf" is now.

A "normal, snips'n'snails'n'puppy-dog's tails" boy wouldn't need the cremps "make all the girls leave before your open this" book, although such a boy might savor the fact that he is bigger and badder than girls and thus can make them disappear temporarily.

No, the cremps book would most plausibly be shoved into the hands of a boy like my cousin, who at age 11 loved playing with just-sitting-up me. (We have home movies, they're so precious to me.) This cousin had plenty of boys around him, and he liked them just fine, but he just wasn't interested in their running and jumping and knocking-things-over and seeing who could throw a rock farthest.

His idea of a good time was playing with Little Junebug. He enjoyed watching a baby human learn things, and helping her take the next step in growing up. He never swerved from that, and of course he's the one who's been with his fella even longer than my TSU and I have been married.

He is the one the concerned uncles (most of the aunts weren't too concerned) and his father would've pushed the cremps book on. "See, Cousin, you don't like girls. Because you are NOT LIKE a girl. Do you understand that?? You must understand that!"

This attitude exists to this day in the conservative religious circles I'm tangentially connected to. Women are easily deceived, women are weak willed. "Men will leave the church in droves rather than listen to a woman preach" or even "... be shown to their seat by a woman usher .... receive an offering plate passed by a woman usher ...." -- I heard those things all my life and still do, from certain ones.

Funny thing is, I've attended liberal Christian churches, and a Unitarian church and an Ethical assembly led by women, and the congregations are all 50-50 in gender makeup. It's at my conservative congregation that the makeup skews slightly to more females. Go figure.

But I digress and digress some more. cremps reflects nothing new but it's distressing to realize it's still around and still so obvious.

Some men - and women - feel the need to butch up their boys, and if making the boys physically remove girls from their presence is part of that, so be it. And so be it especially when it comes to religion, because you can't have girls learning alongside boys ... why, they all might get the idea that any old body can understand and embrace and eventually teach and preach that religion!

And moreover: if you make boys think that religion really belongs to THEM, they'll take over ably and voluntarily and you won't have to even consider thinking about women in leadership roles!

PS, I'm not confining my sadness to Christian sects who hammer away at gender separation. It's my understanding that there are quite a few in Judaism and Islam who do the same thing. It's pandemic. :doh:

Next time, I go shopping at Moa I am going to go in the store and look at their stuff. My friend and I laughed at it but I had no reason to go in the store and she would have thought it weird if I did. I'm a closet fundie watcher. Minnesota is progressive in so many ways and that is why it shocked me so much to see it. It just screamed Vision Forum. The sad thing is the people who were shopping in there did not look fundie and that is the most scary fundie IMO. I don't want to leave my state because we have had made great strides in equality and they keep their hands off of my reproductive tract. It just shocked me.

I grew up in a rural area of Minnesota and I saw a lot of Mennonites but no true hard core fundies. Minnesota doesn't really care what you are. We don't ask because its not nice to ask personal beliefs or to get into anyone's business. Good ol' Scandinavian

[Lainey]

I would have been into all kinds of stuff from that store when I was a kid. I think it's stupid the way they insist on such clear-cut gender roles. It makes me wonder why they're so threatened by females.

[Eater of Worlds]

The discussion of gender roles in church made me think of this article I just read today. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/12/evangel ... g_partner/ It's about how favoring the men's roles perpetuated abuse, and the women and girls had no voice whatsoever.

[salsa]

I noticed that the girl's book includes such fun activities as "to do lists" and "quizzes" where as the boys get crossword puzzles and secret codes to break. Because girls, what, don't want to do a crossword or break a secret code? Pro-tip: Not all boys like the same things. Same goes for girls.

It's part of the brainwashing. If you're consistently being shown and told that girls (or boys) don't like such things, then, in your attempt to be ladylike, you'll eschew them, too.

For example, I remember going on a way-cool helicopter ride in Hawaii, when I was just a few weeks shy of 9 yrs old. My mom was scared and I observed her being scared and I pretended to be scared, too, because I thought it was ladylike. I couldn't contain my curiosity when we flew over a volcano, not that I could really interpret what I saw ... but to this day I hate how much I missed out on, in my attempt to be like my mom.

Yes, I was taught that women are inferior, so I tried to be inferior.

Unfortunately, I was unsuccessful at being inferior and I carved out a life for myself! :nenner:

[Stephanie66]

Minnesota is progressive. Wisconsin? Not so much.

I live not far from the MoA and I never go there. It's too hard to find parking and then I usually am going for one thing in particular or for an event. (They have great dog homemade dog treats in a kiosk by Macy's, I think 2nd floor.)

[fullmetalheart]

I live about 20 minutes from the MOA and usually take the bus when I go there to avoid the parking problem. Kinda horrified this is in my state.