The Rebelution's Modesty Survey

[AnnoDomini]

therebelution.com/modestysurvey/browse

My mother and I have always had... differences of opinion about modesty. Last year she sent me this link to the modesty survey. Some of this I get, but some of it makes me really mad, like many of the comments made by the boys. For example, comments on questions about how important modesty is in a future wife or attitudes toward women who purposefully do not meet their standards of modesty include things like this:

Yes, you can turn me on, but don't expect me to respect you. Yes, I might find you attractive on the outside, but that won't make me think of you as attractive on the inside.

and this

If a girl flaunts herself, it changes everything about what I think of her. To start with, I automatically assume she is not a Christian or is not taking her walk with Christ seriously (I might even try witnessing to her). If she is a Christian, I'll probably tell her that she is being a sexual distraction (much more gently, of course). If you flaunt yourself, you have the attention of lots of guys, but you instantly lose their respect and admiration. I would never consider courting a girl that advertises her body like a product. /quote] And we have no way of knowing whether those boys mean something like this (which might be understandable while still wrongly judgemental):activeladieswear.com/images/Becca-Color-Code-Bikini-Set.jpg

or something like this (she's showing her ankles, wearing heels and a sleeveless top! oh the horrors): www.ceeksoft.com/projects/defashion/ima ... 1408.4.jpg

(edited for clarity)

[Jencendiary]

That you make a distinction between the two pictures - one as slutty and one as normal - leads me to believe that you're still part of the problem yourself. A woman should be free to walk down the street in either ensemble, or boyfriend cut jeans and a white tee, or a custom tailored business suit or anything in between without people assigning character judgments to her.

ETA: That came out harsher than I meant it to. What I am really trying to say is that while criticism of that survey and of the opinions you came up with is certainly valid, you can't let your own assumptions go unchallenged as well.

[Shirley MacLaine]

That you make a distinction between the two pictures - one as slutty and one as normal - leads me to believe that you're still part of the problem yourself. A woman should be free to walk down the street in either ensemble, or boyfriend cut jeans and a white tee, or a custom tailored business suit or anything in between without people assigning character judgments to her.

ETA: That came out harsher than I meant it to. What I am really trying to say is that while criticism of that survey and of the opinions you came up with is certainly valid, you can't let your own assumptions go unchallenged as well.

cosigned

[Guest Anonymous]

Would you mind not hotlinking images, please? It steals bandwidth from the original website. You can upload pics to tinypic very easily - you don't even have to register.

[AnnoDomini]

Ok let's say an outfit that would be characterized as slutty. I meant no actual character judgement.

[Austin]

No matter which outfit a woman is wearing from the two choices presented, it doesn't change that guys who think like this are childish asshats who refuse to responsibility for their own actions (or reactions).

So I don't think it matters in the least which outfit they would most likely identify as the "defrauding" sort.

[Guest Anonymous]

I hate the word 'slutty' and see no reason for any of the self-righteous rebelution crowd to heap judgement on lady 1, lady 2 or any other woman they come across.

The whole 'modesty' survey makes my skin crawl.

[AnnoDomini]

Lissar, what? I'd love to help, but I don't understand what exactly you want me to do. Post smaller pictures? Not post images? Whatever it is I'll try to do it if I can--I just need some direction. :)

[AnnoDomini]

It just makes me so mad to hear them judging those girls as 'not wife material' if they don't meet the boys' standards of modesty. Number one, that's just dumb and judgemental. Number two, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW THEIR STANDARDS??? Each boy's standard is different!

[fundiefan]

I see nothing 'slutty' about either outfit.

I'm of the mind that actions are 'slutty', if the word must be used, not clothing.

[Jencendiary]

Ok let's say an outfit that would be characterized as slutty. I meant no actual character judgement.

That's just the problem though - for a man who doesn't see women as people, no outfit will be pure or modest enough. Whether she's covered from the neck down to the wrists and ankles with a headcovering or wearing a bikini and cut off jeans, it will not stop someone who is inclined to objectify her.

It's all a ploy to ease women into the idea that they should be isolated for their own 'safety' or so they don't lead the men into temptation, when in fact the men in question should use their brains and not their glands. . .

(Same for behavior - what is one woman's acceptably sexual is another's 'slutty'. It's a personal decision for each person to make.)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Some guy on Rebelution muses: "If a girl flaunts herself, it changes everything about what I think of her. To start with, I automatically assume she is not a Christian or is not taking her walk with Christ seriously (I might even try witnessing to her). "

Well gee. All I have to say to that is, if you "witness" to me, it changes everything about what I think of you. You can witness to me, but I won't respect you.

...or to take another tack, hey, you know what Mr. Rebel? It's not ABOUT you. The world can merrily go on its way without your precious approval. There are plenty of better fish in the sea. Hopefully these guys' "target audience" will figure this out.

[Guest Anonymous]

No matter which outfit a woman is wearing from the two choices presented, it doesn't change that guys who think like this are childish asshats who refuse to responsibility for their own actions (or reactions).

For real. These guys say they get boners from looking at their mothers and sisters for goodness' sake. If they're telling the truth then I think they're pretty much beyond help. Frumpers, burkas, or mini skirts, they will always blame a woman for not dressing the way they think she should, and never themselves for their lack of self control.

[Jencendiary]

To quote the ever fab To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar: "Approval neither desired nor required."

[AnnoDomini]

Heh heh. My mother wants me to dress as modestly at home as I do in public. For my brothers' sake, apparently.

[Jencendiary]

Tell your mother that if your brothers are as weak as to be lead into lust by you in your bathrobe & slippers, she has fucked up as a parent.

[Guest Anonymous]

Lissar, what? I'd love to help, but I don't understand what exactly you want me to do. Post smaller pictures? Not post images? Whatever it is I'll try to do it if I can--I just need some direction. :)

Hotlinking is posting pics that are hosted on someone else's website. (When you use the web address that goes directly to the pic, and insert it in Img tags, as you did in your post.)

That uses the bandwidth from the business or personal website which the owner pays for. You can right click and save the image to your computer and upload it to a free hosting website to avoid hotlinking.

[doggie]

I see nothing 'slutty' about either outfit.

I'm of the mind that actions are 'slutty', if the word must be used, not clothing.

I fully are they are not slutty pictures.

What right does one person have to judge another in their beliefs. myself i would look at the judger first and find her flaws in life.

[AnnoDomini]

Tell your mother that if your brothers are as weak as to be lead into lust by you in your bathrobe & slippers, she has fucked up as a parent.

Sometimes I wish I could, but she already has 'mother insecurities' (brought on partly, I think, by my difficult years) compounded by depression (possibly brought on by her fourth miscarriage) and that would not make anything better, but rather worse.

[AnnoDomini]

Hotlinking is posting pics that are hosted on someone else's website. (When you use the web address that goes directly to the pic, and insert it in Img tags, as you did in your post.)

That uses the bandwidth from the business or personal website which the owner pays for. You can right click and save the image to your computer and upload it to a free hosting website to avoid hotlinking.

So I hotlink to a personal pic host website?

[Stickers]

Oh, I love how they call men be unable to control themselves a "stumbling block" :roll: it's just a little oops! when a men starts imaging a women naked because the ties of her swimsuit are showing out the back of her shirt!

[Kelya]

So I hotlink to a personal pic host website?

Right click on the picture, click save and save it to your desktop.

Then go to tinypic, http://tinypic.com/ and fill out the form, then edit your post with the link they provide. The link will be something short and will not take up bandwith from the harris brothers. I think they also won't be able to see as easily that we're discussing them, perhaps?

[PBrooke]

Vaguely related: when I was a teenager I was skinny with pretty giant boobs. I wore what everyone else was wearing, but on me they probably looked a little more pornagraphic than on some. However, since I was young when I "bloomed" and fairly innocent in general, I probably missed most of the looks from dirty old men (and not-so-dirty, not-so-old men).

My mother didn't have a problem with my clothes; again, it was my shape that was drawing attention, the clothes weren't going out of their way to be slutty, and my mom said something along the lines of, "enjoy it while you have it."

Even though I ultimately married someone I knew in high school, none of this would have affected my marriage prospects. Even if I'd purposely been dressing as "slutty" as I could, it shouldn't have mattered. Why? Because I wasn't getting married at fifteen. Teens push the limits of what they can wear, they experiment with who they are, and none of it should affect who they marry because they should in a completely different mindset by then - and mature enough to not care what went on in their partner's past.

[AnnoDomini]

Ok. The modesty survey link is straight to the site. The photos I put up however, are random images from google or whatever, NOT from the site. Oddly enough, there are no pictorial examples on the Harris' website. Would you still like me to tinypic future images?

I know about not directly linking to fundy blogs and such. I sort of forgot about applying it to this, since it isn't a blog or a message board.

[Guest Anonymous]

So I hotlink to a personal pic host website?

The goal is to link to somewhere (tinypic, photobucket, whatever) that is free for you to use but gets paid for their hosting through advertisements on their site. So, yes, if I understand your question.

Edited to add the following for clarification -

Ok. The modesty survey link is straight to the site. The photos I put up however, are random images from google or whatever, NOT from the site. Oddly enough, there are no pictorial examples on the Harris' website. Would you still like me to tinypic future images?

I know about not directly linking to fundy blogs and such. I sort of forgot about applying it to this, since it isn't a blog or a message board.

The images in question come from a site that sells active wear for women and from a software site, not the Harris Brothers. "Random images from google" are culled from people's websites. Tinypic is the way to go.