Jessa Duggar's Courtship - Part 3

[happy atheist]

The big news broke somewhere in here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19243

Please try to limit this thread to discussion of Jessa's courtship and related matters.

 

Season 7 of 19 Kids and Counting is discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19302

And everything else about the Duggars is discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20491

[SamuraiKatz]

Ben is taking on his grandmother re: Ducky Phil...Ben's dad rejecting the Christian Identity movement...I hope the Ben/Jessa relationship lasts....though I would like to see a very long courtship.

[FJismyheadship]

And Ben protests abortion in Glenwood every Saturday afternoon.

[SamuraiKatz]

And Ben protests abortion in Glenwood every Saturday afternoon.

And I now have to take off points for harassing people about abortion.

[Coconut Flan]

Is Glenwood (population around 2220) such a hotbed of abortion that it needs protesting every Saturday?

[FJismyheadship]

Is Glenwood (population around 2220) such a hotbed of abortion that it needs protesting every Saturday?

I guess that depends on how many people in Pike and Montgomery County have abortions. Maybe its more that they don't have proper sex ed, and so he sees high schoolers getting pregnant and assumes the ones who's parents don't convince them to get married to the father get abortions.

Or Pike and Montgomery county are conservative enough he can get his petition to outlaw abortion signed. WalMart won't let him, but Wrights will. Enough people from the surrounding towns go to Glenwood on a regular basis, he might have some luck.

[singsingsing]

What is the Christian Identity movement?

Not surprised Ben protests abortion at a grocery store every Saturday, he seems fairly obsessed with the issue. Not to excuse his behaviour, but he is still a kid and is trying to impress his future in-laws. He may grow out of his more zealous ideals/behaviour (fingers crossed).

[NotALoserLikeYou]

What is the Christian Identity movement?

Not surprised Ben protests abortion at a grocery store every Saturday, he seems fairly obsessed with the issue. Not to excuse his behaviour, but he is still a kid and is trying to impress his future in-laws. He may grow out of his more zealous ideals/behaviour (fingers crossed).

Ben's dad grew up in the Christian identity movement which is a white supremacist religion that believes whites are the chosen people, blacks have no souls, gays should be executed, etc. He has renounced it.

[singsingsing]

Ben's dad grew up in the Christian identity movement which is a white supremacist religion that believes whites are the chosen people, blacks have no souls, gays should be executed, etc. He has renounced it.

Holy shite. Well, that's good to hear. :shock:

[FloraDoraDolly]

Ben's dad grew up in the Christian identity movement which is a white supremacist religion that believes whites are the chosen people, blacks have no souls, gays should be executed, etc. He has renounced it.

The most well-known Christian Identity organization is probably the Aryan Nations. They have (or had) a compound in Hayden Lakes, Idaho. I'm not sure what's going on with them since the founder Richard Butler died. Last I heard, they've split into different factions. In the 1980s and 1990s, they were involved in terrorist plots.

[Mela99]

Ben's dad grew up in the Christian identity movement which is a white supremacist religion that believes whites are the chosen people, blacks have no souls, gays should be executed, etc. He has renounced it.

Um, wow....

That's a start, I suppose... But do they believe women have souls or they're just here to serve?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Um, wow....

That's a start, I suppose... But do they believe women have souls or they're just here to serve?

White women have souls and are for breeding more white people.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Um, wow....

That's a start, I suppose... But do they believe women have souls or they're just here to serve?

Misogyny in the white nationalist movement is rampant. Like the fundies, white nationalists blame feminism for everything that has gone wrong in this world, except they put a racist spin on it. White women exist to birth white babies and cheer on their white men. A white woman who has a baby with a non-white man is betraying her race. While Quiverfull Christians are known to adopt non-white children from poor countries in an attempt to "save" them, white nationalists would never do such a thing. Homeschooling is popular in both movements.

[Mary C Doates]

The most well-known Christian Identity organization is probably the Aryan Nations. They have (or had) a compound in Hayden Lakes, Idaho. I'm not sure what's going on with them since the founder Richard Butler died. Last I heard, they've split into different factions. In the 1980s and 1990s, they were involved in terrorist plots.

Butler and Aryan Nations were sued by a couple of people who had been harassed by them. The victims won a multi-million dollar judgement, and Aryan Nations ended up declaring bankruptcy and selling the Hayden Lake property, along with other assets.

[pega127]

Ben's dad grew up in the Christian identity movement which is a white supremacist religion that believes whites are the chosen people, blacks have no souls, gays should be executed, etc. He has renounced it.

I wonder if JB knows about how Ben's father was brought up? Has Ben's father totally renounced his parent's horrible beliefs?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Why is Ben so obsessed with abortion. Its not like hes ever going to have one. I know he is a straight teenage boy, so an obsession with the female reproductive system is fairly normal, but this is just not normal...

Maybe Jimbob had this in mind.

If Jessa and Ben were ever left alone together-maybe the chaperone went to the bathroom, or was persuaded to look the other way, I can totally see him excitedly turning down a chance at the real thing once he spots Jill's books, leaving Jessa sat there on the bed giving him dirty looks as he reads a book about pregnancy and tells her about exactly what week of pregnancy the embryo develops a heartbeat, or that we all drank our own pee while in the womb.

[YPestis]

Ben is obsessed with abortions for the same reason that most fundies are obsessed with abortion: it's the barometer of the cultural wars. Abortion represents all that is wrong with the world (according to fundies): fewer children, female reproductive autonomy, and promiscuity (which fundies believe is the reason people get abortions). Notice that fundies typically don't protest or fret about going to war (wonder how many unborn and post-born babies are killed in one missile strike?), nor do they seem as concerned with the plight of the 11 million children that die every year from poverty. Nope, their focus is on forcing women to have unneeded ultrasounds, stripping women of their personal autonomy once they have a zygote in them, and ensuring our teens never know how babies are made.

Abortion has never been about "life" for fundies, it's represents the changing social fabric of our society. In the back of their minds, if they can combat abortion, then women will go back to their homes, gays will cease to exist and everything will be right with the world.

If fundies truly cared about the "sanctity of life", they'd be focusing money and energy on aid to poor countries for hospitals and water sanitation facilities because the number one cause of death for children under the age of 5 is diarrhea. They'd advocate for peaceful and nonviolent resolutions to the world's problems (rather than being so gleeful about the destruction of other countries).

Of course, I do not include all religious persons in this type of hypocrisy. Many religious organizations do try to combat poverty and campaign for peace around the globe. However, I think fundies experience a cognitive dissonance between their "pro-life" stance and their world views. Fundies may talk about the sacredness of life with one hand, and be all smiles about the bombing of Iraq with the other. I feel disgusted by their hypocrisy. Is life only sacred when it's in an American woman's womb? Must be true to a fundie.

[louisa05]

With all do respect, YPestis, kids Ben's age raised in that world don't think that deeply about it or any issue. They do what they are expected to do. But, in my experience, (and I taught at a Christian high school for six years, so my experience is a pretty large sample group, not merely a few anecdotes), the most vocal kool-aid drinking teens rarely become kool-aid drinking adults. They seem to become disillusioned later. I could give you a long list of examples from my students at that school. The winners of the annual "best Christian" awards (not called that, but that is what it meant) are the most progressive adults of all my former students that I have been in touch with.

ETA: I also think that the people at the top, the idea makers, do view the issue the way you say. But for a lot of the people standing in front of the abortion clinics and posturing about it on social media, it is merely a way to feel like a "good Christian/Catholic" because for so many of them, it is an easy issue to be self-righteous about. A former friend of mine spends all her energy telling the world that abortion, contraception and homosexuality are the scourge of society. She is a 43 year old virgin who does not date and thinks she has never met a gay person. It is easy for her to use those issues to prove her worth and virtue. Meanwhile, she is greedy, materialistic, thoughtless and the world's lousiest friend. But she will never use birth control, have an abortion or be gay, so in her mind she is holier than the rest of us. Or look at the Duck Dynasty moron immediately jumping to homosexuality when asked what he thinks is sinful. Because he doesn't have to worry about the log in his own eye if he can focus on that.

[freethemall]

Why is Ben so obsessed with abortion. Its not like hes ever going to have one. I know he is a straight teenage boy, so an obsession with the female reproductive system is fairly normal, but this is just not normal...

Aren't ALL fundies obsessed with abortion? Seems to be a given.

[gustava]

Butler and Aryan Nations were sued by a couple of people who had been harassed by them. The victims won a multi-million dollar judgement, and Aryan Nations ended up declaring bankruptcy and selling the Hayden Lake property, along with other assets.

I think the Southern Poverty Law Center handled the lawsuit. Mods, I hope it's OK to include their web address: http://www.splcenter.org/ as it fights for human rights.

[Closed Womb]

So, no Christmas engagement, I'm guessing. I know (or I'd suspect) they'd film for the show, but I'm guessing that Amy or Josh would say something on Instagram long before it airs.

Maybe All Power Jim Bob is just letting these two date court and get to know each other?

[nellautumngirl]

So according to Ben's Fb they visited the Mena Mountain Resort in Arkansas, you can go hiking, fishing, golfing or canoeing there. It looks nice.

[sunshine]

A good place for an engagement, uh?

[GeoBQn]

Yes, it reminds me of Chad taking Erin to that resort near them in Tennessee to celebrate their engagement.

[albanuadh_1]

Jessa never struck me as an outdoorsy type of girl. Guess you have to keep your guy happy...