Men Need Help

[debrand]

Permanent and chaste marriages along with the legitimate children they produce are a social feature that traditionally cultivated masculine ambition by rewarding it and channeling it towards benevolent ends. Men tend to love their wives and children, take satisfaction in working on their behalf, and used to gain commensurate social respect for doing so.

And yet, this kind of marriage is precisely what has been taken away from men in our society.

Okay, when did society stop allowing men to marry? I missed that news article. What is a chaste marriage? Does the writer mean a marriage in which both individuals were virgins when they married or one in which neither one cheats? If the husband works for the wife, is she the boss and he the submissive one?

Instead, our elites have sought to structure the family around child support instead of marriage. The mother has custody of the children, but she receives much of the necessary resources from elsewhere. This could be from her husband, but it could just as easily be from her ex-husband, her boyfriend, or the taxpayer. Where it comes from doesn’t matter so long as the child has resources and the woman is freed from any moral or social obligation towards these men.

Oh, I get it. The fault for this nonexistent problem is with the government and evil feminist.

Strong independent women in control of their own lives need no men and offer men no incentive to an ambition that benefits society. However, if that independence were as real as people pretend, there would be no alarm over men giving up those ambitions. Truly independent women would not need all the welfare, alimony, child support, paid maternity leave, government sponsored daycare, and so forth that other people (men) are supposed to provide for them. But if society truly does need such things from men, perhaps society should also honor and reward men for their contribution instead of pretending they are unnecessary. Perhaps they should make their ambition rational again.

This argument makes no sense. Why would men do less because they view women as equals? I am not alarmed over men not taking responsibility because most men that I know are responsible; actually, most adults that I know are responsible regardless of their sex.

I don't get the connections that they are making in the rest of the paragraphs. Apparently, the writer believes that there was a wonderful age in the past where children were never hungry or went without necessities in life. If women would just stay home with their kids, not compete with men and heap constant praise upon their husband, there would be no need for day care or welfare. Of course, my grandmother had to work in the fifties because her husband was a drunk and her children were left with strangers because he was too inebriated to care for them.

ladiesagainstfeminism.com/feminism-related-issues/are-men-irrational-for-opting-out-of-education-careers-and-families/

I admit that I just read the summary of the article on LAF and didn't follow the link. The summary annoyed me too much to follow the link.

[dairyfreelife]

lol, permanent and chaste marriages with legitimate children cause that always happened in the past :lol:

[debrand]

lol, permanent and chaste marriages with legitimate children cause that always happened in the past :lol:

There were NO illegitimate children before feminism! Feminism and the government use mind control to force unmarried people to copulate.

[Anny Nym]

There were NO illegitimate children before feminism! Feminism and the government use mind control to force unmarried people to copulate.

Which was invented in the 1970s, along with abortion, lesbianism and the female orgasm. And it all was invented by ebil feminists, who could easily been spotted by their short hair <- which was apparently also invented in the 1970s! :mrgreen:

I now see, this is from "Ladies against feminism". There I heard a good aphorism lately: "

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren´t." (yeh, it´s from Thatcher - it fits right in with the pack)

[terranova]

Is a chaste marriage one where you have sex with the lights out?

[FloraKitty35]

Is a chaste marriage one where you have sex with the lights out?

That's part of it, one can only have sex through a hole in the sheet, also.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

A large part of why some people think the "Good Old Days" were so good is because so much was unspoken of in polite circles and unreported in the newspapers. Pedophilia, rape, illegitimate children, adultery and so forth was swept under the carpet. Homosexuals stayed in the closet or led very secretive lives for fear of reprisals. Women didn't talk about their sex drives openly. All this stuff happened, it just didn't get discussed openly. Some women undoubtedly showed their partners how to perform cunnilingus and some probably never knew it was a possibility. Some women knew their husbands had affairs but turned a blind eye because they were expected to. Teenagers got pregnant out of wedlock but were bundled off to go give birth somewhere else or had a hasty marriage arranged* The good old days were just like today but with a lot more secrecy.

* My 18 year old mother got pregnant in the 50's out of wedlock. Her plan --if my father did not marry her-- was to get on a bus that would go as far as possible from her home town with what little money she had. A sad little plan and who knows what would have happened to her? Fortunately my father went against his priest's advice and married her.

[Childless]

How come the people that expect men to be all tough and manly are also the ones that gripe about how women have beaten them down? If they're so tough and manly, why is a little competition from a woman enough to make them run away and vow to never try anything ever again? I have more respect for men than that. I don't think they're so weak as to crumble at a little extra competition. Most men I know value a challenge and just try harder when there are more people to beat.

I'm a very independent woman. If I had to go it alone with my son, I'd be perfectly capable of caring and providing for him without child support or government help. My husband values that independence. He's said on multiple occasions that it was one of the things that attracted him. He liked that I wasn't clingy or needy and that I had my own life and didn't make him the center of my universe. He's comforted by the fact that if something happened to him, he'd know our son and I would make it just fine. He's not only a hard worker, but also an expert at child care, so in turn, I'm comforted by the fact that if something happened to me, my son and husband would be just fine also. This set up that fundies desire for everyone (dad works and mom does all the housework/child care/etc.) completely breaks down if there's a death or severe injury of either adult in the household. It's much better for both the man and woman (or woman and woman or man and man) to be well versed in every aspect of life, so they are capable of taking over if the worst happens.

[JesusFightClub]

A large part of why some people think the "Good Old Days" were so good is because so much was unspoken of in polite circles and unreported in the newspapers. Pedophilia, rape, illegitimate children, adultery and so forth was swept under the carpet. Homosexuals stayed in the closet or led very secretive lives for fear of reprisals. Women didn't talk about their sex drives openly. All this stuff happened, it just didn't get discussed openly. Some women undoubtedly showed their partners how to perform cunnilingus and some probably never knew it was a possibility. Some women knew their husbands had affairs but turned a blind eye because they were expected to. Teenagers got pregnant out of wedlock but were bundled off to go give birth somewhere else or had a hasty marriage arranged* The good old days were just like today but with a lot more secrecy.

Exactly.

I hear lots of people say "In the good old days, there wasn't all this paedophilia and these attacks on children. Nobody had to deal with those sort of people. The world has got a lot worse." So I asked my mum and dad about it and they said "Nope. It was the same."

In my dad's town there was "the funny man" and "not a nice man" and you were told not to speak to them on the street or (especially) go in their houses. There were also people who had been to the jail for doing things people didn't talk about, but they whispered about.

My mum lived near "a bad man" and she was warned never to take a short cut through the neighbourhood she lived in because it went past the bad man's house...

[thoughtful]

A large part of why some people think the "Good Old Days" were so good is because so much was unspoken of in polite circles and unreported in the newspapers. Pedophilia, rape, illegitimate children, adultery and so forth was swept under the carpet. Homosexuals stayed in the closet or led very secretive lives for fear of reprisals. Women didn't talk about their sex drives openly. All this stuff happened, it just didn't get discussed openly.

And even that has come and gone in waves, in various eras and places.

Many Victorians had a fascination with violent and/or sexual crime -- lurid and detailed descriptions in newspapers were common, and the sale of Penny Dreadful stories was booming.

[Mama Mia]

Exactly.

I hear lots of people say "In the good old days, there wasn't all this paedophilia and these attacks on children. Nobody had to deal with those sort of people. The world has got a lot worse." So I asked my mum and dad about it and they said "Nope. It was the same."

In my dad's town there was "the funny man" and "not a nice man" and you were told not to speak to them on the street or (especially) go in their houses. There were also people who had been to the jail for doing things people didn't talk about, but they whispered about.

My mum lived near "a bad man" and she was warned never to take a short cut through the neighbourhood she lived in because it went past the bad man's house...

So true. And. Think part of the perception problem is due to the Internet and 24 hour news.

Not just conservatives, but most parents of young children, seem to think there is evil lurking behind every bush because you don't just hear about the relatively rare stranger kidnapping in your own city, you hear about what happens everywhere, all the time. So of course it seems like there is a huge increase in pedophiles and risks and murder and kidnapping.