My kids don't need to know math or about the equator

[Ampak]

ATI royalty, Chris Hogan, said that character development was more important than education during this weeks Embassy Institute Live broadcast. A viewer asked how to handle family inquiries and rebuttals about homeschooling. Hogan responded by using two examples of his family questioning the effectiveness of their ATI curriculum. 1- His family was quizzing the children with math questions and approached Chris about the children's competency. 2- Relatives confronted Chris appalled that the children didn't know what the equator was. He laughed both off, and encouraged the ATI families by telling them that character set the stage for successful relationships and marriages; something obviously lacking in our culture. He then said ATI families should question how much money the relatives were going to waste on college degrees. He was extremely arrogant and condescending about the whole thing!

embassyinstitute.org/media/embassy-live-how-prepare-stress-holiday-season

[BravaAmica]

ATI royalty, Chris Hogan, said that character development was more important than education during this weeks Embassy Institute Live broadcast. A viewer asked how to handle family inquiries and rebuttals about homeschooling. Hogan responded by using two examples of his family questioning the effectiveness of their ATI curriculum. 1- His family was quizzing the children with math questions and approached Chris about the children's competency. 2- Relatives confronted Chris appalled that the children didn't know what the equator was. He laughed both off, and encouraged the ATI families by telling them that character set the stage for successful relationships and marriages; something obviously lacking in our culture. He then said ATI families should question how much money the relatives were going to waste on college degrees. He was extremely arrogant and condescending about the whole thing!

Embassyinstitute.org/media/embassy-live-how-prepare-stress-holiday-season

Well, his kids are going to be polite when they ask if you want fries with that.

[doggie]

Well, his kids are going to be polite when they ask if you want fries with that.

Does not sound like they have that good of an education more like migrant worker jobs or panhandling on a street corner.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Is there any job in the world that you can get through being barely literate and unable to do basic math, but have excellent manners?

Maybe its a good thing that ATI character training also includes joyfully doing chores without complaint, as I am sure the only employment these kids will get is scrubbing toilets or cleaning floors and stuff.

[Melissa1977]

At least he's telling the truth. Not like Duggars, that fake homeschool classes.

Yes, fundies want illiterate kids. Easy to manipulate. And not spending a dollar in education.

But please, stop saying that homeschooled fundies can go to college or start companies or be leaders. Illiterate people, with few exceptions, are going to be low-payed-workers. Or worst than that: are going to "minister" and live in extreme poverty (Anna Duggar brother-in-law, Pearls' son-in-law, etc).

[formergothardite]

I remember hearing this line of thinking while we were in ATI. They would also tell stories of ATI students who were approached and offered jobs based only on their character and clear, shining eyes. My parents got fussed at by other ATI families for putting so much time and energy into our education and not sending us to do all these character building ATI activities. Making an idol out of educating your children or something like that.

[latraviata]

I remember hearing this line of thinking while we were in ATI. They would also tell stories of ATI students who were approached and offered jobs based only on their character and clear, shining eyes. My parents got fussed at by other ATI families for putting so much time and energy into our education and not sending us to do all these character building ATI activities. Making an idol out of educating your children or something like that.

Yes, that's exactly how Cuteneurorad got his job....... :lol:

It all sounds like Catholic Europe 100 years ago.

The priest and the director of the local factory to each other, 'you keep them stupid (priest) and I (director) will keep them poor.'

[ILoveJellybeans]

I remember hearing this line of thinking while we were in ATI. They would also tell stories of ATI students who were approached and offered jobs based only on their character and clear, shining eyes. My parents got fussed at by other ATI families for putting so much time and energy into our education and not sending us to do all these character building ATI activities. Making an idol out of educating your children or something like that.

Clear shining eyes?

The only thing that comes to mind by thinking of ATI children and their eyes is the way their smiles never reach their eyes, which are sad and full of hopelessness and despair that could only come from blanket training, spanking and brainwashing.

[formergothardite]

Gothard tells a story about how he went to Russia with a bunch of ATI students and some Russian guy said that the ATI students had such clear, shining eyes. He used this as proof that avoiding rock music and studying the Bible will brighten your countenance. Ends up it was a mistranslation and the guy didn't really say that.

[August]

Is there any job in the world that you can get through being barely literate and unable to do basic math, but have excellent manners?

Maybe its a good thing that ATI character training also includes joyfully doing chores without complaint, as I am sure the only employment these kids will get is scrubbing toilets or cleaning floors and stuff.

Door greeter at Walmart? Everything else I can think of needs both excellent manners and basic math. Except for Captain of Industry, which just needs the math.

Clear shining eyes. Eye drops will take care of that for you.

[FloraKitty35]

What about a cold wet nose?

[Conuly]

*facepalm*

There were so many reasonable, plausible ways to respond to these concerns. He could've said that its impolite to go up and quiz kids to prove their education is inadequate and his kids don't do well when suddenly put on the spot like that. He could have said that they're still working on their math facts and that now that they know the kids have a gap in their understanding of geography they'll start on that. He could've said that these well-meaning relatives were unknowingly working above the level of most children in that age range. He could've pointed out that although knowledge of geography was somewhat lacking, the kids are doing super well in history and foreign languages, much better than their peers.

Heck, even though its an utter cop-out he could've claimed that they're doing better than the local public schools! That STILL would be better than "academics aren't that important". Academics are important for life, academics are important for fully understanding your religion (whatever religion it is), academics are important for general mental acuity, and it's a ridiculous lie to imply that one cannot have a good character and also be well-educated.

[Burris]

Here is the pretence that character training and general education are somehow at odds such that teaching one will damage what a student has learned about the other. This is perhaps the biggest lie fundamentalist leaders have managed to inflict on their followers.

With these people it isn’t even an argument about the merits of college versus the merits of apprenticeship or vocational training; it’s an argument about whether any form of higher education is actually necessary (unless, of course, that higher education is in law or theology (etc.) and is being spent on the son of a current leader).

I think there are several separate but linked groups in operation here:

(1) For the fundamentalist elite – and yes, I believe this – there is a strategic value in discouraging those of lower socioeconomic status from aspiring to greater things through higher education. Quite simply, one cannot lead an unquestioningly obedient people if there aren’t enough undereducated followers in those ranks who look to their pastors and to their government representatives for answers about everything from employment to family planning.

(2) Another group – the fundie merchants who compete with one another in selling lifestyle products and curricula – are little more than a subset of the group mentioned above.

(3) The group I suspect interests most of the people here at FJ are those lower on the ladder. This is a collection of true believers such as the Duggars (who, despite their television success, are by no means fundamentalist royalty) and many of the other bloggers we discuss.

There may be some disagreement in comments on popular blogs such as that of Kelly Crawford, permitted to maintain the appearance of a benevolent leadership, but that is usually shut down. Censorship is enforced by the peons themselves who employ the three Ds - Delete, Deflect, and Deny – when confronted with facts they can’t address honestly.

As mentioned previously, these particular people have been convinced that education and character can very often be at odds with one another – incompatible, such that one must be sacrificed to preserve the other.

How ironic: God immediately and intentionally creates the world, according to their belief system, and yet some fundamentalists – thankless hypocrites that they be - teach their children it’s all right – even praiseworthy - to remain ignorant of even the most basic facts about this wondrous place.

I may be ignorant about absolutely everything else; I’ll even claim outright stupidity, but not in this. I know one thing, and this is the thing: Gaining accurate knowledge about the world and its peoples is vital to character development.

Again – and please pay attention fundamentalist readers: Gaining accurate knowledge about the world and its peoples is vital to character development.

Those parents who teach from an anti-intellectual “worldview†are not only doing their children a major disservice, hobbling them and rendering then unable to compete for decent jobs, but they’re setting the kids up to demonstrate some of the worst character traits an individual can have: Incuriosity, which means they’re inclined to believe whatever they’re told so long as the source is ideologically correct; xenophobia to the point of pathology (?); intolerance so ingrained that it leads to a lack of even the most basic empathy (and note here, fundamentalists, that tolerance is not the same as acceptance).

Some of these fundamentalists are raising adults with no respect for anyone who doesn’t look, act, or believe as they do; and with a militaristic worldview wherein they and their own children are but ammunition to be used against an enemy and, if then broken, discarded. (Prolife, my ass! This takes the phrase "late-term abortion" to a whole new level.)

That is what you’re raising, fundie readers. That is what will follow in your footsteps. That is what will carry on the family name.

So basically some of these people are raising entitled ideologues who can’t find the United States on a map. Stupidity and a deep inability to understand other people – that’s not character; it’s a travesty, a waste of human potential.

These parents are wasting their children. Wasting them. Squandering them!

[docmom]

Here is the pretence that character training and general education are somehow at odds such that teaching one will damage what a student has learned about the other. This is perhaps the biggest lie fundamentalist leaders have managed to inflict on their followers

Absolutely true! And you know what, most public schools actually do a pretty damn good job of character training, too (empathy, tolerance, sharing, manners are all part of the curriculum).

[GeoBQn]

At least he's telling the truth. Not like Duggars, that fake homeschool classes.

Yes, fundies want illiterate kids. Easy to manipulate. And not spending a dollar in education.

But please, stop saying that homeschooled fundies can go to college or start companies or be leaders. Illiterate people, with few exceptions, are going to be low-payed-workers. Or worst than that: are going to "minister" and live in extreme poverty (Anna Duggar brother-in-law, Pearls' son-in-law, etc).

After they announced the Jubilee pregnancy, JimBob put out a video to respond to the outcry. In the video, he said, "One of our kids might grow up and find a cure for cancer." I thought, "JimBob, with the way you educate your kids they won't even be able to find a cure for hiccups."

[YPestis]

You know, if you are debating the merits of homeschooling, I don't think it's a good idea to gloss over the schooling part. "Homeschooling is so much better, even though we don't bother with math and geography!". Sorry, even hardcore homeschoolers would say you need to send your kids to public school if that's the case.....

[doggie]

Clear shining eyes. Eye drops will take care of that for you.

Christ gonja for sure.

[browngrl]

This is one of the things I find saddest about fundies. I can understand the absence of education in parts of the world where it takes everything a parent has just to make sure their child lives to the next day but to deliberately choose to leave your children ignorant is the equivalent of giving them a lobotomy. They might survive but they will never achieve what they could have.

[yewnique]

ATI royalty, Chris Hogan, said that character development was more important than education during this weeks Embassy Institute Live broadcast. A viewer asked how to handle family inquiries and rebuttals about homeschooling. Hogan responded by using two examples of his family questioning the effectiveness of their ATI curriculum. 1- His family was quizzing the children with math questions and approached Chris about the children's competency. 2- Relatives confronted Chris appalled that the children didn't know what the equator was. He laughed both off, and encouraged the ATI families by telling them that character set the stage for successful relationships and marriages; something obviously lacking in our culture. He then said ATI families should question how much money the relatives were going to waste on college degrees. He was extremely arrogant and condescending about the whole thing!

embassyinstitute.org/media/embassy-live-how-prepare-stress-holiday-season

So, what character trait was he demonstrating?

[Hane]

What Burris said above. The fundie hierarchy needs a huge, undereducated underclass to prop it up.

I'm reminded of 1984, with the small, elite Inner Party; the somewhat larger Outer Party; and the vast numbers of uninformed Proles. And of Brave New World, with carefully bred classes of people, whose levels of intelligence predetermined their roles in society.

[Miggy]

I still don't understand how a man is suppose to support 10-20 children if he is uneducated and limited to low paying jobs. I guess I need to go on a Journey to the Heart to learn not to question my authorities.

I have heard the "bright shining eyes" quote many times but not that it was a mistranslation. Can someone tell me what the man actually said? (English or Russian, doesn't matter, I speak both.)

[uber frau]

This is one of the things I find saddest about fundies. I can understand the absence of education in parts of the world where it takes everything a parent has just to make sure their child lives to the next day but to deliberately choose to leave your children ignorant is the equivalent of giving them a lobotomy. They might survive but they will never achieve what they could have.

But they won't ask questions so they won't lose their faith so they won't go to hell. And the fear of hell and the promise of heaven justifies everything. It doesn't matter if their earthy life is shite, eternity is so much more important.