Curiosity is BAD! Just trust the Pope.

[SteampunkLovelace]

en.radiovaticana.va/m_articolo.asp?c=746498

The spirit of curiosity generates confusion and distances a person from the spirit of wisdom.

Don't ask questions, you'll only get confused. :angry-banghead:

[sparkles]

Uh, without curiosity we never would have advanced past our prehistoric days. I'd say curiosity LEADS to wisdom, rather than distancing us FROM it. No, the lack of curiosity just makes it easier for the overlords to remain the overlords and keep the riff-raff in their place.

[Jinger Jar]

Pope Francis isn't speaking about intellectual curiosity. He's speaking about those who place their faith in people many believe are hoaxers and are spiritually harmed as a result.

He made his remark during a homily that focused on the Blessed Virgin Mary, in which he warned against curiosity and credulity for alleged, unapproved, apparitions of the Virgin in places like Medjugorie. People place their faith in these unapproved (and sometimes disproved) apparitions and people who claim to have direct contact with the Virgin. In the same homily, the Pope spoke out against those who say, “But I know a visionary, who receives letters from Our Lady.†The Virgin Mary loves all mankind, the Holy Father said. “She is not a postmaster, sending messages every day.â€

This kind of longing (i.e., curiosity) for extraordinary signs from God can lead Catholics away from the Gospel, and, the Pope said, can distance us from "...the Holy Spirit, from peace and wisdom, from the glory of God, from the beauty of God.â€

Like in all else, context is everything. :)

[Arete]

Amazing how isolating one sentence from an entire speech can change the meaning of someone's words. :roll:

Quoting out of context is sloppy at best and intellectually dishonest at its worst.

[SteampunkLovelace]

Amazing how isolating one sentence from an entire speech can change the meaning of someone's words. :roll:

I'm not. The Pope is telling us not to have a spirit of curiousity because it distances us from god with examples of people listening to non-approved messages from the Virgin Mary. If he said we should have curiousity combined with skepticism/critical thinking skills in listening to people who claim to have messages from the Virgin Mary, that would be one thing. The church, however, says they have lots of messages from all sorts of saints and godly folk. By telling us to not have curiousity, the message is that we cannot have the skills to evaluate messages and should wait on the church to tell us while being all at peace because we have no curiousity.

Then he throws in some odd comparisons to pharisees who are asking Jesus what actually seems to be a reasonable question.

The really odd part of all of this is that the bible specifically says that teachers and prophets should be tested and that it is the glory of kings to search out a matter.

[Diana]

he is talking about the crazy people inside the catholic church that believes in aparitions of the virgin mary today, they are like a sect: FMzoDWwKLiw

[upkacrane]

I'm not. The Pope is telling us not to have a spirit of curiousity because it distances us from god with examples of people listening to non-approved messages from the Virgin Mary. If he said we should have curiousity combined with skepticism/critical thinking skills in listening to people who claim to have messages from the Virgin Mary, that would be one thing. The church, however, says they have lots of messages from all sorts of saints and godly folk. By telling us to not have curiousity, the message is that we cannot have the skills to evaluate messages and should wait on the church to tell us while being all at peace because we have no curiousity.

Then he throws in some odd comparisons to pharisees who are asking Jesus what actually seems to be a reasonable question.

The really odd part of all of this is that the bible specifically says that teachers and prophets should be tested and that it is the glory of kings to search out a matter.

People who are self-declared believers of these non-approved messages from the Virgen Mary are among the most fundamentalist and patriarchal people that I know. Even my Italian grandmother, who is a very conservative lady, thinks they are over-the-top conservative/fundamentalist. I don't want to generalise, it's just my personal experience. But I think the Pope might be talking to these extremist folks...? Well, one can hope...

[Diana]

People who are self-declared believers of these non-approved messages from the Virgen Mary are among the most fundamentalist and patriarchal people that I know. Even my Italian grandmother, who is a very conservative lady, thinks they are over-the-top conservative/fundamentalist. I don't want to generalise, it's just my personal experience. But I think the Pope might be talking to these extremist folks...? Well, one can hope...

yes, they are very fundamentalist the same folks that are in opus or other movements and is not the first time that he talks against them, i have read from their blogs and they are not happy at all with the pope.

[ems]

This could be an issue of translation, given that the Pope is not a native English speaker. In context, it doesn't sound like he's talking about what most people would term "curiosity."

[FloraKitty35]

en.radiovaticana.va/m_articolo.asp?c=746498

Don't ask questions, you'll only get confused. :angry-banghead:

That sounds like something J'Uterus would spout.

[theologygeek]

I'm not.

It went over your head. He was talking about the apparition sects. He was actually quite tactful with his words. I just love this pope.

[theologygeek]

People who are self-declared believers of these non-approved messages from the Virgen Mary are among the most fundamentalist and patriarchal people that I know. Even my Italian grandmother, who is a very conservative lady, thinks they are over-the-top conservative/fundamentalist. I don't want to generalise, it's just my personal experience. But I think the Pope might be talking to these extremist folks...? Well, one can hope...

That's exactly right. Many popes have addressed this problem, but it goes in one ear and out the other with these groups. They don't listen, but then again, every denomination has their crazy sects.

[Boogalou]

I think there is something lost in translation in what was linked to. Without reading the thread I would have come to the same conclusion as the title. The thing about apparitions from Mary seems to come out of left field and not connect with what he is saying about curiosity. I don't see how believing in messages like that would fall under "curiosity". Maybe I'm missing something. What language was this originally in?

[Arete]

In the speech the Pope is speaking specifically about understanding the Kingdom of God. He states that instead of developing wisdom to walk in the path of God toward greater understanding of the ways of God and bringing about the Kingdom, we are more curious about the exact when and where God will act to bring about the Kingdom. As such, people start believing they see apparitions of the Virgin Mary who is outlining the end of history step by step for them, as opposed to them using wisdom and prayer to walk in the path of God. People stop asking "how can I act in step with the Creator?" and go with "Just tell me the date so I can be ready".

This speech is not addressing intellectual curiosity at all. It is addressing using visions and seers to try and discern the future. Once again, context.

Whatever other moral failings the Catholic Church may have, it has built supports world class universities in both the US and Western Europe. People need to use some common sense and ask themselves if a Church that is such a big supporter of higher education is suddenly going to do a complete 180 and say "curiosity is bad".

[2xx1xy1JD]

Pope Francis isn't speaking about intellectual curiosity. He's speaking about those who place their faith in people many believe are hoaxers and are spiritually harmed as a result.

He made his remark during a homily that focused on the Blessed Virgin Mary, in which he warned against curiosity and credulity for alleged, unapproved, apparitions of the Virgin in places like Medjugorie. People place their faith in these unapproved (and sometimes disproved) apparitions and people who claim to have direct contact with the Virgin. In the same homily, the Pope spoke out against those who say, “But I know a visionary, who receives letters from Our Lady.†The Virgin Mary loves all mankind, the Holy Father said. “She is not a postmaster, sending messages every day.â€

This kind of longing (i.e., curiosity) for extraordinary signs from God can lead Catholics away from the Gospel, and, the Pope said, can distance us from "...the Holy Spirit, from peace and wisdom, from the glory of God, from the beauty of God.â€

Like in all else, context is everything. :)

Thanks for the additional info. I was surprised at this coming from Pope Francis, and thought that maybe something was lost in translation.

[apple1]

Taking one sentence out of context and putting a particular spin on it is intellectually dishonest.

Not even considering whatever might have been lost in translation.

FTR - I am not Catholic, and I have formed no particular overall opinion on this pope.

[louisa05]

In the speech the Pope is speaking specifically about understanding the Kingdom of God. He states that instead of developing wisdom to walk in the path of God toward greater understanding of the ways of God and bringing about the Kingdom, we are more curious about the exact when and where God will act to bring about the Kingdom. As such, people start believing they see apparitions of the Virgin Mary who is outlining the end of history step by step for them, as opposed to them using wisdom and prayer to walk in the path of God. People stop asking "how can I act in step with the Creator?" and go with "Just tell me the date so I can be ready".

This speech is not addressing intellectual curiosity at all. It is addressing using visions and seers to try and discern the future. Once again, context.

Whatever other moral failings the Catholic Church may have, it has built supports world class universities in both the US and Western Europe. People need to use some common sense and ask themselves if a Church that is such a big supporter of higher education is suddenly going to do a complete 180 and say "curiosity is bad".

And the Jesuits have led the way. The pope is a Jesuit.

[Jinger Jar]

And the Jesuits have led the way. The pope is a Jesuit.

A fact that is deeply distressing to some. ;)