Terrorist Attack in London.

[OkToBeTakei]

A soldier was hacked to death in broad daylight in Woolwich. They were heard to say amongst other similar sentiments 'We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you.'

Sources said both men, who are being treated in hospital, are believed to be British citizens with Nigerian connections who converted to a radical form of Islam. But they are not thought to have links to terror groups based in Nigeria, such as the jihadist organisation Boko Haram.

"The fault lies wholly and exclusively in the warped and deluded mindset of the people who did it." The mayor also urged Londoners to "go about their lives in the normal way".

Footage and pictures show a frenzied scene at the junction of John Wilson Street and Artillery Place in Woolwich. Some images show three men lying scattered in the street, surrounded by discarded weapons and splashes of blood. Eyewitnesses huddled behind a police cordon as around 30 to 40 officers secured the scene, just around the corner from Mulgrave Primary School. Woolwich and Greenwich MP Nick Raynsford said it was his understanding that the dead man was a serving soldier. One witness, identified as James Heneghan, said he and his partner saw two black men attack a young man aged around 20 years old in a Help for Heroes T-shirt with kitchen knives like he was "a piece of meat". "They were hacking at this poor guy, literally," he told LBC radio. "They were hacking at him, chopping him, cutting him."

In a chilling development, footage emerged of one of the suspected killers, apparently explaining his terrifying actions. In the clip, obtained by ITV News, he is heard to say: "We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you."

In an extended version on The Sun website, the man adds: "You think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start bussin' our guns? You think politicians are going to die? No it's going to be the average guy, like you, and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so you can all live in peace." The attacker, who spoke clear English without a foreign accent, is then seen walking towards the victim, who is lying in the street. Another man is standing by a car that has collided with a road sign.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/woolwich-attac ... -attackers

Brave lady.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Its really bringing out the worst in my Facebook friends....So many Facebook statuses saying all Muslims are terrorists who should be deported.

If you have to start a sentence with "Im not racist but...." it probably is

[Dollypeeps]

I have deleted a fair few folk of FB as it just brings out the nasty in them sadly.

For me I don't think this is a terrorist attack. I believe this was random and was used as an excuse to encite others and it has sadly going by the papers and news.

[debrand]

Somewhere last night I read that right wingers were threatening to behead a muslim child in retaliation.

What a horrific crime.

[rollmeover]

There were some amazingly brave members of the public who intervened and made me proud to be British. I can't imagine walking up to those men in real life - just the photos were enough to give me a genuine panic attack. We have a tolerant, welcoming society that offers opportunity for all and democratic ways to make change, if what you want to do is make change as opposed to barbarically slaughtering people on the streets.

[sparkles]

This was truly shocking, in no small part because of how brazen it was. Unfortunately, I think this kind of violence (including the Boston bombing) is going to become more and more common, first because it's easier to pull off than a mass attack like 9/11 and second, because, the randomness and disruption of normal life will have the effect of throwing the public off balance. More than ever, people will start looking at every unfamiliar face as a potential terrorist (check out the classic Twilight Zone episode "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street").

My heart breaks for every single peaceful, law-abiding Muslim in a Western country. I can't imagine what it must feel like for every man, woman and child to be looked upon as a terrorist.

[itaintmebabe]

Imagine how horrible it would have been if instead of knives, the perpetrators would have had guns.

[bal maiden]

I have deleted a fair few folk of FB as it just brings out the nasty in them sadly.

For me I don't think this is a terrorist attack. I believe this was random and was used as an excuse to encite others and it has sadly going by the papers and news.

I agree, I wouldn't call this terrorism. Terrorism is designed to incite terror and fear in the general public, whereas this was an attack on a soldier. Gruesome and nasty, but I think calling it terrorism is a rhetorical device rather than fact.

[sparkles]

I agree, I wouldn't call this terrorism. Terrorism is designed to incite terror and fear in the general public, whereas this was an attack on a soldier. Gruesome and nasty, but I think calling it terrorism is a rhetorical device rather than fact.

"You people will never be safe.…You think politicians are going to die? No it's going to be the average guy, like you, and your children."

Language like that is indeed terrorism. The act may not have been a major, organized attack but it's very randomness most definitely IS designed to incite terror and fear in the general public. As these kinds of attacks become more and more common--which I think they will--it will also become more and more likely that you'll become one of those random targets.

I'm always in NYC and believe me, I'm a lot more concerned about hanging around Times Square or Central Park and being shredded by a shrapnel bomb built by a couple of fanatics than I am about visiting a high-rise and having a jet rammed into the building in a well-planned attack years in the making.

[Mela99]

Mrr . . .

Were people this openly loud and racist and obnoxious before facebook? I'm gonna barf.

Right now we're neck and neck with "Obama made them do it" and "This is why we need guns."

[Irishy]

I just don't know how you physically could do it. To walk up to a man and hack him to death. That would take a strong stomach and some sick brainwashing. To shoot someone or blow them up is relatively simple. To hack someone to death requires huge physical and mental strength. The whole thing is just unbelievable. I've been avoiding it in the media because images like that would haunt me.

[meda]

It seems as though most of these incidents, regardless of where they happen or the purported reason for it, are carried out by angry, dissafected young men. Maybe society could do something about angry, dissafected young men and their lack of opportunities and/or inflated sense of entitlement rather than worrying quite so much about whatever "cause" they are supposedly supporting by committing random acts of violence.

[tropaka]

Seems the EDL added fuel to the fire by falsely spreading rumours about muslims "celebrating", meanwhile they did their part to vandalize mosques etc

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05 ... k?ncid=GEP

http://news.sky.com/story/1094547/woolw ... s-targeted

[rollmeover]

I agree, I wouldn't call this terrorism. Terrorism is designed to incite terror and fear in the general public, whereas this was an attack on a soldier. Gruesome and nasty, but I think calling it terrorism is a rhetorical device rather than fact.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Speaking to people today, they are fearful and terrified. I would be scared to be out in the streets. I posted a facebook status expressing my sorrow and solidarity and other people commented that they were scared to even "go on record" posting comments on fb in case they were targeted by extremist would be murderers in their community. The threat was that this would happen again, to ordinary people. This man was a soldier, but not on active duty in a war zone, nor in uniform - and he was hacked apart in an ordinary London street by people who looked pretty ordinary before they started waving blood soaked axes around.

[JesusFightClub]

I wouldn't tag it as terrorism yet, because we don't have evidence for that. Because someone thinks they're acting for a cause doesn't automatically mean that they are accepted actors in that cause's name.

Terrorism is also a really problematic category when an attack is made on a country's military (be it bases or individuals). If that military has declared war on the cause the "terrorists" are affiliated to, and feel free to kill adherents of that cause, isn't the adherents fighting back just, well....warfare?

I know that sounds unpleasant but I'm seeing declaring this as "terrorism" to be problematic on those two fronts. Is a drone strike which takes out a US enemy terrorism? Is a random who proclaims he's killing for a cause actually working on behalf of that cause to force a political end, or is he a nutter the real militants would cross the street to avoid?

The concept "terrorism" is really debased nowadays and comes with a host of confusing meanings. From the French Revolution to Woolwich is one hell of a step, and not always a justifiable one.

[OkToBeTakei]

I wouldn't tag it as terrorism yet, because we don't have evidence for that. Because someone thinks they're acting for a cause doesn't automatically mean that they are accepted actors in that cause's name.

Terrorism is also a really problematic category when an attack is made on a country's military (be it bases or individuals). If that military has declared war on the cause the "terrorists" are affiliated to, and feel free to kill adherents of that cause, isn't the adherents fighting back just, well....warfare?

I know that sounds unpleasant but I'm seeing declaring this as "terrorism" to be problematic on those two fronts. Is a drone strike which takes out a US enemy terrorism? Is a random who proclaims he's killing for a cause actually working on behalf of that cause to force a political end, or is he a nutter the real militants would cross the street to avoid?

The concept "terrorism" is really debased nowadays and comes with a host of confusing meanings. From the French Revolution to Woolwich is one hell of a step, and not always a justifiable one.

Taking you on here JFC...wish me well all :lol:

Your synopsis as usual is bang on. But it is Terrorism.

If it makes one person terrified to walk down a street wearing a Hero's T-shirt. Then they are terrified to do so.

When the IRA came here in the 80's they struck shopping centres on Saturdays to terrorise people from doing what they do every day.

When we in the UK see an unattended bag in a train station? I'm scared. Always have been. Always will be.

A car in Belfast left parked, for longer than it should be. I'm scared. I always will be.

When the army points a gun in my face because my Dad's car breaks down (unfortunately) in Newry (of all fucking places.) I'm scared at 8 yrs of age.

Terrorism to me is striking what we fear, our daily lives.

This is where I may become a little unpopular. The terrorism label for me became apart from what I know regarding PIRA and ETA. A misnomer after 9/11 or 7/11. To me they were not acts of terrorism they were acts of war. If you grow up in Iraq in a rural area and have no idea what world politics and oil means to the rest of the world, and you see bombs raining down on you, you are easy pickings for revenge. You see your family as family not as collateral war damage. You don't have military might, you don't have politics and economics and education. You just have anger. You are taught to hate. Your a pawn.

There is no clean bill of health, I am right in war. Never has been, never will be. It is naive to think you can not be touched by it.

But terror is a clever thing. It is insidious as somebody said above. It is being scared of going about your daily life. The trick is to realise yo can get run down by a bus any day.

[OkToBeTakei]

Drummer. RIP.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/woolwich-terro ... ml#1mARi1v

[shedemei]

Imagine how horrible it would have been if instead of knives, the perpetrators would have had guns.

I disagree. People are mostly accustomed to gun violence and only react when there's something really novel about it, like Sandy Hook. Being hacked to death on the street is a new level of horror that still shocks us.

[Guest Anonymous]

I disagree. People are mostly accustomed to gun violence and only react when there's something really novel about it, like Sandy Hook. Being hacked to death on the street is a new level of horror that still shocks us.

I do not agree with this. I don't think we are accustomed to gun violence in London.

[meda]

Taking you on here JFC...wish me well all :lol:

Your synopsis as usual is bang on. But it is Terrorism.

If it makes one person terrified to walk down a street wearing a Hero's T-shirt. Then they are terrified to do so.

When the IRA came here in the 80's they struck shopping centres on Saturdays to terrorise people from doing what they do every day.

When we in the UK see an unattended bag in a train station? I'm scared. Always have been. Always will be.

A car in Belfast left parked, for longer than it should be. I'm scared. I always will be.

When the army points a gun in my face because my Dad's car breaks down (unfortunately) in Newry (of all fucking places.) I'm scared at 8 yrs of age.

Terrorism to me is striking what we fear, our daily lives.

This is where I may become a little unpopular. The terrorism label for me became apart from what I know regarding PIRA and ETA. A misnomer after 9/11 or 7/11. To me they were not acts of terrorism they were acts of war. If you grow up in Iraq in a rural area and have no idea what world politics and oil means to the rest of the world, and you see bombs raining down on you, you are easy pickings for revenge. You see your family as family not as collateral war damage. You don't have military might, you don't have politics and economics and education. You just have anger. You are taught to hate. Your a pawn.

There is no clean bill of health, I am right in war. Never has been, never will be. It is naive to think you can not be touched by it.

But terror is a clever thing. It is insidious as somebody said above. It is being scared of going about your daily life. The trick is to realise yo can get run down by a bus any day.

I agree with you to a point...but the perpetrators were not recruited from rural Iraqi villages, they were British. The 2 boston marathon bombers had been in the US since they were children, one of them was married to an American woman. I believe the 7/11 perpetrators were also long term British residents, please correct me if not. That's why I have a hard time viewing these events as terrorism, because the perpetrators were not trained operatives or ignorant pawns recruited from war torn regions. They were pissed off men who wanted to inflict pain and suffering in a public and dramatic way. The stated reasons for the violence seem like an afterthought. What makes what these people did to this man "terrorism"? Is it terrorism when a couple of thugs beat someone to death for wearing the wrong team colors in the wrong neighborhood?

[debrand]

I do not agree with this. I don't think we are accustomed to gun violence in London.

Also, they killers might have chosen to kill more people instead of just the young man

[tropaka]

Again, apparently one of the attackers had a gun. Maybe to ward off people if they'd gotten in the way of the intended target.

As for people being accustomed to gun violence ; I'm in TO and I think we are more dismissive or apathetic when it's gangs shooting at each other, but when innocents are targeted or caught in crossfire, then people take notice.

[OkToBeTakei]

Again, apparently one of the attackers had a gun. Maybe to ward off people if they'd gotten in the way of the intended target.

As for people being accustomed to gun violence ; I'm in TO and I think we are more dismissive or apathetic when it's gangs shooting at each other, but when innocents are targeted or caught in crossfire, then people take notice.

Gun? Where was that reported?

No guns are not the norm. What with them being illegal. So instead they hack each other. One man died. I am pretty sure if one of the assailants had a gun it would have been a bit worse..can it be? What a stupid argument.

Another reason why legal guns are just plain fucking stupid. Rant over.

[OkToBeTakei]

I agree with you to a point...but the perpetrators were not recruited from rural Iraqi villages, they were British. The 2 boston marathon bombers had been in the US since they were children, one of them was married to an American woman. I believe the 7/11 perpetrators were also long term British residents, please correct me if not. That's why I have a hard time viewing these events as terrorism, because the perpetrators were not trained operatives or ignorant pawns recruited from war torn regions. They were pissed off men who wanted to inflict pain and suffering in a public and dramatic way. The stated reasons for the violence seem like an afterthought. What makes what these people did to this man "terrorism"? Is it terrorism when a couple of thugs beat someone to death for wearing the wrong team colors in the wrong neighborhood?

To a point I think it is Meda. But most will not identify with it.

To me terror is just that. It is the belief or misbelief of inflicting the uncertainty of going about your every day life. It really does not matter where the perpetrators are from to be honest.

It is the mass hysteria it causes. Of course we know we have just 2 lone fanatics. But the fear it can generate? THAT is where terror in it's true sense is from.

Your view as operatives is missing my point. They, those that felt our ire, our bombs, our political might. They were not in their view terrorists. I also do not think they were. So they see an army t-shirt. They were Nigerian ..no axe in the fight. Just dafties.

Unfortunately there are those that wish to do harm and feel they have some similar cause. They are just lunatics. It happens.

The fringe has always been about. We now just have a convenient box to put them in.

[JenniferJuniper]

Gun? Where was that reported?

No guns are not the norm. What with them being illegal. So instead they hack each other. One man died. I am pretty sure if one of the assailants had a gun it would have been a bit worse..can it be? What a stupid argument.

Another reason why legal guns are just plain fucking stupid. Rant over.

Witnesses saw some sort of semi-automatic pistol being waved around. News reports say a gun, knives and a machete were recovered from the scene.

On Thursday, two more people, a man and a woman, were arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to murder.

They seemed very focused on this poor young man as they did not attack anyone else at the scene and at least one was more than happy to chat up bystanders whilst covered in the victim's blood. I completely agree it's a terrorist attack, but they are getting stranger and stranger.