Erica *smile* Shupe *laugh* On in-laws

[OkToBeTakei]

largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2013/03/navigating-difficult-relationships.html

 

I read this a few days ago but did not have time to post. So Erica *smile* is giving advice on how to deal with difficult in-laws. Or as she calls it what the correct 'biblical response' should be.

 

Long story short (it is a long story, a very long story.) She and her husband have cut all ties between his parents and their children.

 

 

Quote

My husband's parents have cut all relationship ties with us because we would not allow them to disrespect us, and emotionally, morally, and spiritually confuse and harm our children, our family.

 

This is incorrect and misleading because if you read the post you will see it is actually the opposite. Erica and her husband set a set of 'rules' or 'conditions' for the in-laws and when they chose not to comply with said rules, Erica spins it that 'they' the in-laws cut ties.

 

It is interesting because it is not an uncommon problem, only recently here on FJ (past few days) there have been comments on different threads regarding Grandparent relations etc. But what piqued my interest was the reasoning behind Eric'a decision. We all have those moments when we don't welcome Granny giving treats at inopportune times or an extra hour up when babysitting, that extremely annoying, noisy toy etc. But to me that is a trade off to your child having a special relationship with their grandparent. My parents house even has that 'Grandchildren spoilt here sign,' in their kitchen.

I realise it is not always so happy, clappy perfect and there can be issues and obviously nobody would want their child put in a situation of danger or harm where a supposed family member can be in that position.

 

But with Erica and her husband I suspect it is their desire to follow the fundie lifestyle which has caused this and possibly the in-laws not being so enamoured of these choices.

 

 

Quote

Bob's dad and step mother are loving, generous people. But they have also at times been disrespectful, hurtful and condescending towards us while attempting to be controlling, manipulative, and harmful while trying to accomplish their own goals for grand-parenting. Our story is largely a process of trying to be connected with them while eliminating or at least minimizing the effect they might be able to have on our home.

 

 

This does not sound to me a positive statement of intent at all.

 

 

Quote

When Bob and I were first married and did not yet have any children, he and I could just take the "good" in the relationship and leave the "bad". We spent time with them at holidays, birthdays and the occasional gathering of one sort or another. But it was just us, and we were adults. It seems that the stakes were pretty low for Bob's parents and so the desire to be involved in our life was minimal or perhaps "normal" for a typical American family. When our first child (Karen) was born 14 months after we got married, and then our second daughter only 13 months after that, the pressure was on for time, interaction and by extension influence over our children and family. Because of the nature of that influence we were on guard from the beginning but we quickly found out that just trying to guide that infuence would not be enough. Even more difficult was the realization that our desire to protect our family from this outside influence was resented by Bob's parents and to them it became an obstacle to breakdown and/or circumvent.

 

 

Grandparents wanted to spend time with their grandchildren. Erica from the start, quite obviously viewed this as a negative influence.

 

 

Quote

Bob's parents completely disregarded our instructions for our children when the children were with them alone. We would explain to his parents, for example, when and how our toddler children should eat so as to avoid choking (one of our daughters was especially prone to this), which foods were not good for them to have, and when the children would need to sleep. As a parent directed feeding family this was crucial to the babies and our success for the babies eating sleeping and overall well-being. They ignored all of that and did whatever they wanted making the rest of our day after picking up the kids then very difficult with the now exhausted children. We tried to explain the reasoning to them but they would smile and nod and then ignore us. And this happened for over a year. We asked them to not show certain things on TV to the children, and they ignored that as well, instilling damaging images and concepts to our children's young minds. And when we had more children and they were all a few years older, his parents would try to teach our children on moral issues that were obviously, and directly against God's Word. At one point it became so bad that even when we were all together one of our children was scooped up and taken to another room and when we asked for her back were refused, directly. We had a problem, it was getting worse and we did not know what to do about it.

 

 

I could totally understand a choking worry. The rest though? Well Erica contradicts herself later. Here she says 'When we had more children and they were all a few years older, his parents would try to teach our children on moral issues that were obviously, and directly against God's word'

 

Yet..

 

 

Quote

They have not seen Karen & Melanie since they were 18 months and 6 months old (they are now 14 and 13), and they've never met our other seven children.

 

HELLO? Erica? How exactly did an 18 month and 6 month old become corrupted against the word of God?

 

I call utter shit on this. Erica does not like her in-laws. I think her in-laws possibly do not like Erica. They are not the 'right' type of Christian apparently.

 

My impression from reading this long (did I mention long?) post is that Erica *smile* *laugh* is a smiling, laughing control freak. I think her in-laws were not willing to be controlled. A shame for them and for the grandchildren. This granted is all written from her point of view, but still that is the impression I took. Anybody willing to read it all has my admiration, but I would be really interested to hear others views on the post.

 

*smile*

[EmiGirl]

They probably let the girls wear pants or maybe even :o a bathing suit in the summer!

[Koala]

The contradiction was a good catch! I wonder if anyone called her on it in comments...

[GodsKnickers]

First, I'm glad I'm not related to them (similar surname).

Second, I don't understand this. I mean, I get not feeding toddlers, say, hot dogs not cut up because of the choking hazard but what does that have to do with the when? Their children only choke at certain times of the day? Huh?

We would explain to his parents, for example, when and how our toddler children should eat so as to avoid choking (one of our daughters was especially prone to this)

Thirdly, my children (all grown) do not see their maternal grandmother at all and haven't for almost 2 years now. My parents were incredibly abusive to me and my siblings but they were pretty good with my kids. We have cut my mother off once before, after my father passed away, when my mother tried to start in on my kids with some emotional/verbal abuse. We didn't see or speak to her for a year. Then I got a case of the guilts and we let her back in to our lives. She was pretty careful after that. For several years now, we've known that to be a mistake but didn't do anything about it.

However, 2 years ago, in the midst of an incredibly trying time for our family (one of my kids was very ill for an extended length of time, and at one point, just got out of the hospital and another kid went into the hospital), my mother tried to blow up her own life by being stupid and somehow, that was my fault, and that I even warned her months earlier, well that was my fault too somehow, and just because I had a sick kid at home and another in the hospital at the same time, it was no excuse not to come flying to her rescue.

Um, you're a frigging adult - take ownership of your fuckup, lady, and figure out how to fix it. Besides that, you have long told me I'm useless, trying to make trouble in your life and all sorts of other lies you've spread amongst extended family. No. I was trying to help you see where you were going to get fucked over, precisely so that I didn't have to deal with the fallout. That's not making trouble, that's trying to avoid it, and all the drama that ensues. If I wanted to 'cause trouble' there are legal ways to do that but I leave it alone because I just want to move on and not have the drama in my life, not have the vitriol and lies spewed, the refusal to admit to the years and years of abuse and so on.

At the same time that was all going on, my siblings and I finally compared notes (we weren't terribly close due to machinations on our parents/mother's part) and so much information came to light, some of it very disturbing, that I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't face her, knowing what I finally knew. I knew it would not end well and that the better thing to do was to just walk away, let that be the end of it. And that is what we did. My kids are adults. They never knew 99% of what went on for my siblings and I, until that point. We had always tried to let them find their own path/relationship with my parents, while we kept a close and watchful eye. At that time, they also chose to cut ties - not at our request or exhortation, but of their own volition, once all this information came to light.

But these people? This doesn't sound like that sort of situation at all. This just sounds as someone else said - she just doesn't like her ILs because they're not xian enough. I get having some boundaries on things. My parents believed in spanking and that turned into immense physical abuse for us. We didn't spank, precisely because of that. My parents were convinced we should allow them to spank our kids but they were firmly informed that if they laid a finger on the kids, it would result in very unpleasant circumstances for them - and they complied. I get doing certain things like that. But this, with these people? It's weird.

[dianapavelovna]

Erika in the comments, talking about her family:

Hopefully I'll be able to shine a light in to their life with what little contact we do have. The problems only arise when someone is trying to manipulate another person or control or influence them without their permission.

Does she not see the direct contradiction in those two sentences?

Also a few commenters were all worried that she'd broken the fifth commandment.

[OkToBeTakei]

The contradiction was a good catch! I wonder if anyone called her on it in comments...

Bit of a mixed bag in comments Koala. Most obviously the usual sycophantic stuff, but a few called her out on the personal nature and her 'unbiblical' I did it right, you did it wrong tone. Hard to know if she moderates or not.

I *smile* dislike this person, as much as you can any fundie blogger. She wraps up her particular brand of control in good organisation and advice whilst in her own way being a less overtly Zsu character. She micro-manages almost every moment of every day. I reckon her short hair whilst unfundie like is purely to give her more 'control' time :lol:

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Shes an asshole. I'm surprised her husband never fixed this.

[OkToBeTakei]

First, I'm glad I'm not related to them (similar surname).

Second, I don't understand this. I mean, I get not feeding toddlers, say, hot dogs not cut up because of the choking hazard but what does that have to do with the when? Their children only choke at certain times of the day? Huh?

Thirdly, my children (all grown) do not see their maternal grandmother at all and haven't for almost 2 years now. My parents were incredibly abusive to me and my siblings but they were pretty good with my kids. We have cut my mother off once before, after my father passed away, when my mother tried to start in on my kids with some emotional/verbal abuse. We didn't see or speak to her for a year. Then I got a case of the guilts and we let her back in to our lives. She was pretty careful after that. For several years now, we've known that to be a mistake but didn't do anything about it.

However, 2 years ago, in the midst of an incredibly trying time for our family (one of my kids was very ill for an extended length of time, and at one point, just got out of the hospital and another kid went into the hospital), my mother tried to blow up her own life by being stupid and somehow, that was my fault, and that I even warned her months earlier, well that was my fault too somehow, and just because I had a sick kid at home and another in the hospital at the same time, it was no excuse not to come flying to her rescue.

Um, you're a frigging adult - take ownership of your fuckup, lady, and figure out how to fix it. Besides that, you have long told me I'm useless, trying to make trouble in your life and all sorts of other lies you've spread amongst extended family. No. I was trying to help you see where you were going to get fucked over, precisely so that I didn't have to deal with the fallout. That's not making trouble, that's trying to avoid it, and all the drama that ensues. If I wanted to 'cause trouble' there are legal ways to do that but I leave it alone because I just want to move on and not have the drama in my life, not have the vitriol and lies spewed, the refusal to admit to the years and years of abuse and so on.

At the same time that was all going on, my siblings and I finally compared notes (we weren't terribly close due to machinations on our parents/mother's part) and so much information came to light, some of it very disturbing, that I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't face her, knowing what I finally knew. I knew it would not end well and that the better thing to do was to just walk away, let that be the end of it. And that is what we did. My kids are adults. They never knew 99% of what went on for my siblings and I, until that point. We had always tried to let them find their own path/relationship with my parents, while we kept a close and watchful eye. At that time, they also chose to cut ties - not at our request or exhortation, but of their own volition, once all this information came to light.

But these people? This doesn't sound like that sort of situation at all. This just sounds as someone else said - she just doesn't like her ILs because they're not xian enough. I get having some boundaries on things. My parents believed in spanking and that turned into immense physical abuse for us. We didn't spank, precisely because of that. My parents were convinced we should allow them to spank our kids but they were firmly informed that if they laid a finger on the kids, it would result in very unpleasant circumstances for them - and they complied. I get doing certain things like that. But this, with these people? It's weird.

Ouch Knickers. That sounds like such an horrific experience :( It sounds like your kids were given a choice whilst having you there to protect them in what you describe as a real worrying situation for you. That must have been really hard for you and your siblings. Also a real vindication when they supported you. I doubt Erica sees past her own wishes at this stage. Sadly in years to come it may be her own children who are doing what you did.

[OkToBeTakei]

Shes an asshole. I'm surprised her husband never fixed this.

Well he has dinner with his Dad. I think Mr Erica is kind of micro-managed also maybe?

[RachelB]

First, I'm glad I'm not related to them (similar surname).

Second, I don't understand this. I mean, I get not feeding toddlers, say, hot dogs not cut up because of the choking hazard but what does that have to do with the when? Their children only choke at certain times of the day? Huh?

Thirdly, my children (all grown) do not see their maternal grandmother at all and haven't for almost 2 years now. My parents were incredibly abusive to me and my siblings but they were pretty good with my kids. We have cut my mother off once before, after my father passed away, when my mother tried to start in on my kids with some emotional/verbal abuse. We didn't see or speak to her for a year. Then I got a case of the guilts and we let her back in to our lives. She was pretty careful after that. For several years now, we've known that to be a mistake but didn't do anything about it.

However, 2 years ago, in the midst of an incredibly trying time for our family (one of my kids was very ill for an extended length of time, and at one point, just got out of the hospital and another kid went into the hospital), my mother tried to blow up her own life by being stupid and somehow, that was my fault, and that I even warned her months earlier, well that was my fault too somehow, and just because I had a sick kid at home and another in the hospital at the same time, it was no excuse not to come flying to her rescue.

Um, you're a frigging adult - take ownership of your fuckup, lady, and figure out how to fix it. Besides that, you have long told me I'm useless, trying to make trouble in your life and all sorts of other lies you've spread amongst extended family. No. I was trying to help you see where you were going to get fucked over, precisely so that I didn't have to deal with the fallout. That's not making trouble, that's trying to avoid it, and all the drama that ensues. If I wanted to 'cause trouble' there are legal ways to do that but I leave it alone because I just want to move on and not have the drama in my life, not have the vitriol and lies spewed, the refusal to admit to the years and years of abuse and so on.

At the same time that was all going on, my siblings and I finally compared notes (we weren't terribly close due to machinations on our parents/mother's part) and so much information came to light, some of it very disturbing, that I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't face her, knowing what I finally knew. I knew it would not end well and that the better thing to do was to just walk away, let that be the end of it. And that is what we did. My kids are adults. They never knew 99% of what went on for my siblings and I, until that point. We had always tried to let them find their own path/relationship with my parents, while we kept a close and watchful eye. At that time, they also chose to cut ties - not at our request or exhortation, but of their own volition, once all this information came to light.

But these people? This doesn't sound like that sort of situation at all. This just sounds as someone else said - she just doesn't like her ILs because they're not xian enough. I get having some boundaries on things. My parents believed in spanking and that turned into immense physical abuse for us. We didn't spank, precisely because of that. My parents were convinced we should allow them to spank our kids but they were firmly informed that if they laid a finger on the kids, it would result in very unpleasant circumstances for them - and they complied. I get doing certain things like that. But this, with these people? It's weird.

I assumed that meant some sort of "Babywise"-style, rigidly scheduled feedings, which maybe the grandparents had some problem with.

[Koala]

Bit of a mixed bag in comments Koala. Most obviously the usual sycophantic stuff, but a few called her out on the personal nature and her 'unbiblical' I did it right, you did it wrong tone. Hard to know if she moderates or not.

I *smile* dislike this person, as much as you can any fundie blogger. She wraps up her particular brand of control in good organisation and advice whilst in her own way being a less overtly Zsu character. She micro-manages almost every moment of every day. I reckon her short hair whilst unfundie like is purely to give her more 'control' time :lol:

I haven't read a lot of her blog, but what I've read I don't like. I get the same vibe. Crazy controlling. I took note of this bit in her post:

As a parent directed feeding family this was crucial to the babies and our success for the babies eating sleeping and overall well-being.

As you pointed out, these were babies! I am betting the grandparents fed them on demand (when they were hungry) and this made Erica mad :angry-cussingblack:

I can assure you that I would totally respect my child's wishes when watching my grandchildren, but there is no way I would let a child in my care go hungry in the name of "parent directed feeding". End of. If this is what they were doing then I don't blame them at all.

Has she deleted the post? I can't find it now.

[Koala]

n/m the post is coming up now

[clarinetpower]

I went to check it out. Her entire blog has been deleted. Not just this post, the entire thing. I did find it through Google cache: http://ow.ly/jLpos

Way to overreact! AGAIN! *Smile!* *blink* *Smile again*

EDITED: Never mind. Google farted.

[chaotic life]

They Babywise. They require a STRICT schedule for not just their babies but toddlers and preschoolers and a hard regimented, scheduled existance throughout their childhood. Gary Ezzo teaches followers to lie about how strict, harsh and inappropriate the program is to anyone who questions you, and then cut all ties if they don't back off of questioning you.

Given the ages of the girls when they cut contact, I would guess the grandparents insiste upon FEEDING a hungry child, and quite likely let them watch Disney movies, which would explain the moral corruption that they supposedly perpetrated against the children.

[OkToBeTakei]

I haven't read a lot of her blog, but what I've read I don't like. I get the same vibe. Crazy controlling. I took note of this bit in her post:

As you pointed out, these were babies! I am betting the grandparents fed them on demand (when they were hungry) and this made Erica mad :angry-cussingblack:

I can assure you that I would totally respect my child's wishes when watching my grandchildren, but there is no way I would let a child in my care go hungry in the name of "parent directed feeding". End of. If this is what they were doing then I don't blame them at all.

Has she deleted the post? I can't find it now.

Nope still there. For a moment there I thought the power of FJ removed it :lol:

Yes somebody up thread mentioned 'babywise.' She has a crazy post about napping regime. Would not surprise me if that was the issue. Wonder how she would cope if she found out her child had a Terri's chocolate orange for lunch as I did one day. My wee girl was 4 at the time and she and my mum were talking one day about wishes and as any 4 year old would, said she wished for chocolate at every meal. As my Mother said, some wishes are easy to grant. Erica does not, like a lot of fundies give her kids or certainly did not with the grandparents, a chance to know that some things are treats and out of the normal and actually kids get this. My kid was happy with lentil soup next time. But she still remembers her chocolate lunch.

Control,control.

Crap grammar. Tired apologies.

[AnnieC 305]

HELLO? Erica? How exactly did an 18 month and 6 month old become corrupted against the word of God?

I don't know about corrupted against the word of God by my mother pulled down my under-2 nephew's pants, pointed to his wee-wee (her words) and said that if he didn't stop sticking his hands down his pants it would fall off and run away. Gave the poor kid nightmares for months. After that my SIL wouldn't leave him alone with her. And good for her, my mother is mentally ill and not safe around children, I cut contact with her a few years ago and I don't plan to ever let my children meet her. I won't put them through her crazy.

People seem to think that the word "mother" has a special, spiritual connotation, nothing is more pure and holy and unconditionally loving as a mother, mothers must be worshiped for they can do no wrong. Bull sh!t. I'm sorry but all the word "mother" means is that someone had unprotected sex and didn't abort. Once past that you get judged on your behavior like anyone else, and not all parents are good to their children.

Now it might well be that Erica is being a sanctimonious asshole. Maybe she was doing the Babywise thing and the grandparents were int he right. But it might also well be that her in-laws were being emotionally abusive or crazy making, and she didn't want her kids to have to deal with that so she cut contact. I don't know exactly what her reasoning is but in this case I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[OkToBeTakei]

Erica *smile* on sleep.

We do require that young children stay in their beds at night once they are sent to bed (unless older ones need to use the bathroom). If they choose to disobey then we have to implement the established consequences, however we have also enabled the children to be tired at the appropriate time of night so they are generally ready to stay in bed and go to sleep. They usually take 10-20 minutes to whisper a bit and quiet themselves in their respective bedrooms, but then they go to sleep.

To accommodate older children who do not need as much sleep as younger ones, we tell them they may get up earlier in the morning if they need to (and I am up at 5:00 am so they are not unsupervised), but not stay up late at night. Staying up late always has a certain seduction for both young people and adults alike, but really generally nothing productive is accomplished late at night and precious time is wasted then every morning when a person needs to get the sleep they need. So we tell the older children they need to be in bed at 9:00 pm, but they may rise early if they need to and get in to their day with a shower, beginning homeschooling, etc. They may choose to get up early as long as it does not effect their countenance, pleasantness, and their ability to be productive through out the day. If a young person chooses poorly and is overly tired during the day then mom and dad will choose their wake up time. *smirk*

We do not allow children to quit napping. *smile* *chuckle* Around age 18-months to 2-years our children often discover that they are able to climb out of their crib or twin bed, and because they heave learned a new skill they therefore have to develop a whole new level of self discipline to go with it. It doesn't usually mean they don't need the sleep any longer, it simply means they have to learn self discipline much more than they had to before. But it's important for their lives that they begin learning self discipline very young, which begins here. And the fruit of what they learn will help them in all other areas of their little lives as well. We help them learn this by sitting with them while they fall asleep to offer accountability (but not lying down with them as that then becomes a "crutch" that they need to have to fall asleep, and does not require that they really learn self discipline), and by later using a baby monitor as a second step in holding them accountable. If they climb out of bed they have a consequence, consistently, until they receive that message and stay in bed for sleep times.

Feckin *smirk* *chuckle* *smile*

[dairyfreelife]

Maybe it is just me but I feel like it's a grandparents job to spoil grandchildren. This includes giving them candy, sweets, letting them stay up late, eat chocolate ice cream and watch tv. I can understand serious rules like telling my parents or ILs that (future) baby Dairy has an allergy to bananas, so don't give s/he them. That's crucial. I would ask them not to spank baby Dairy either, but of course I would work on instilling a respect for their grandparents as well. It's not okay to sass them or anything else rude and mean. I do understand that some grandparents could be very poor ones and undermine the parents just to be spiteful, but I can't see my parents doing that or my bf's.

May sound harsh, and I don't know the other side, but I think she should feel lucky to have grandparents nearby who are willing and able to be in their life. My only living grandparents were already elderly and I do appreciate the time I did spend with them, but it was not much because of their health. The other set was deceased before I was born. My grandfather died almost four years ago and my grandmother is getting worse with her health at almost 80. My father may not be around to see his grandchildren grow up. If I had children with my bf, his father's health is not well either (recently has a kidney removed because of tumors). I guess I feel that I cannot imagine not having my grandparents around and I want my children to actually get the experience of being spoiled by them just because they can. Of course it can't happen with everyone because some grandparents are toxic, not just letting the kid have a sweet though you say they are off limits or something minor. Outside of toxic or even dangerous relationships, if the grandparents want to be involved, I don't think a simple disagreement or two is worth losing that relationship over.

[guidedbybobafett]

Mostly what I take away from these kinds of people is that they have incredibly dangerous and damaging control issues. You have to be pretty rigid and angry to think "My baby will not dictate when they eat because I get to decide that." It's like they're having a temper tantrum because their babies don't understand that "the PARENT IS ALWAYS IN CHARGE!!11". It's kind of pathetic.

[Full enough quiver]

It seems like she (and many other fundies) have such a black and white way of looking at the world. Assuming the grandparents aren't abusing the children, let em have a little leeway. Theres a huge difference between a little spoiling, and abusive or damaging behavior. Healthy boundaries with extended family=good. Being an insane control freak=bad. Ive set one major boundary with my mother. She is not to say anything negative about the girls' bodies. If she does, she will not get to see them. Bottom line is, she will not do to them what she did to me. When I was a child, my mother had serious body image issues. She policed every morsel I ate, for as long as I can remember. I remember crying from hunger, and her telling me "you've had your calories for the day, drink water. You're 20 pounds overweight, you aren't starving." I was maybe 10 or so. My mother is 5'4, 120. I'm 5'11, 190. Yeah, that was fun growing up with. My 14 year old is 5'8, 160, and 12 year old is 5'10, 160. They are not small, but they are perfectly fit and healthy, and I won't have anyone tell them that's a bad thing. My mom can do anything she wants, as long as she keeps her body hang ups to herself.

[Mama Mia]

I don't understand these people ( of all parenting philosophies ) who can't stand to let their children be exposed to different ways of doing things. Kids are going to have to grow up and deal with all sorts of personalities and ways of doing things in day to day life - how can they learn to do that if they only EVER interact with one sort of person ?

If it is something blatently dangerous, or if the grandparent is constantly undermining you - sure let them know that's not okay -but forbidding contact because they have different ways of doing things ? That's really counterproductive in the long run.

Even if the kids are super sheltered, micro-managed homeschoolers - eventually they will have to get used to their spouses quirks and preferences and be able to tolerate that.

Seems like a recipe for creating super high-strung anxious adults.

[Lulu]

Kinda 1/2 and 1/2 on this. Having cut contact with one in-law I can understand. Disrespecting a parents requests about feeding, disciplining, religion, smoking around children etc are big nonos to me.

[Patsy]

The only thing I ever contradict a parent on with their child is safety: if a kid I know is scared by a joke I'll openly say "not really", if they're instructed to hug me I'll immediately contradict the order and say "you don't have to, though."

That's it, though. I feel that due deference to a parent means that you will follow their lead and back them up even on stuff you'd do differently... but it only goes so far. If someone follows the spirit of the law, that's respectful. (There might be some explicit specific instructions or bans to follow, like "don't go on about weight" or "no playing in the street", but I feel "general spirit, following their lead" is a respectful baseline.)

That's not what she was after, she wanted them to follow every letter of the law in her itemised 10-page list. Control freak.

[Curious]

Those kids were babies at the time they had contact with the grandparents. They cut off contact with the youngest was 6 months, if you believe her initial account.

I could not sit by and let a baby of any age (presumably they had been in contact with the 2 grandkids since they were younger) cry in HUNGER in the name of "parent directed feeding."

First, it's fucking dangerous. Babies have been known to fail to thrive using that method and second, I can't stand hearing babies scream when it's a basic needs not being met. It just cuts through my brain like a knife and makes me really, really edgy...almost into a panic attack.

Putting a baby down for a nap and them fussing a bit before they fall asleep, I can do. Cry it out, I can't do.

An older child is different for me, but something about a baby making that horrible "I need something" cry, I just can't handle it.

(By not handle it, I don't mean I want to hurt the baby or something. I want to fix whatever it is so the baby isn't unhappy and stops crying.)

[ILoveJellybeans]

Erica, your husbands parents managed to raise him to be an adult without killing him. Hes also not a serial killer right now, has a job and a decent education and you liked him enough to marry him, so they probably did a decent job.

What about them is so bad that you cant let the children near them?

How do you corrupt an 18 month old and a 6 month old? Knowing Erica, they took them 5 minutes off schedule.

Grandparents are supposed to spoil their grandchildren. My grandparents spoiled me, and I know my mom will probably spoil my future kids.

Yeah, obviously if their grandparents are an actual danger to the kids (like if theyre abusive), dont leave the kids with them, but just normal stuff is no reason to stop children from seeing their grandparents. Its nice for kids to know their relatives.