Yeshua And Yeshu. Israel And New Testaments

[debrand]

visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2013/02/10676/

I'm not breaking the link because the interns obviously use our site to check their grammar and facts.

In fact the orthodox Jews, in particular, are so hostile to Christ that “they call Jesus ‘Yeshu’ which is a Hebrew curse. Jews for Jesus made Gospel tracts. They add the letter “a†in the tract to ‘Yeshu’ to spell ‘Yeshua’ which means Jesus. And then, further in the tract, they add an “h†which spells ‘Yeshuah’ which means Savior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandera#Be ... _ben_Stada

Danish Christian author Kjaer-Hansen argues that this modern Israeli usage of Yeshu resulted from the influence of Joseph Klausner who used the name Yeshu for Jesus in his Hebrew works believing it to be a correct Hebrew equivalent. Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, the "father of modern Hebrew", had instead used Yeshua for Jesus (the name used in Maimonides and the expanded Josippon) but, Kjaer-Hansen argues, this choice lost out to Yeshu as a result of Klausner's influential Hebrew work on Jesus titled Yeshu HaNotzri published in 1922.[16] Kjaer-Hansen, notes that many Jewish writers have assumed that "Yeshu" is a correct Hebrew name for Jesus and have used it without intending any disparagement, but advises against its usage due to its probable origin as a derogatory term.[16]

The article also gives instances in which Jewish figures other than Jesus were called Yeshu.

Lovett said, “I loved Flowers of the Son, a documentary by Jews for Jesus. I learned that there are only 6,000 Christians in Israel. Nobody can buy a New Testament and it’s a pretty hostile environment to be a missionary.

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I find it difficult to believe that you can't buy a New Testament in Israel but I might be wrong.

[defrauding]

Lovett said, “I loved Flowers of the Son, a documentary by Jews for Jesus. I learned that there are only 6,000 Christians in Israel. Nobody can buy a New Testament and it’s a pretty hostile environment to be a missionary.

Well, that's a flat-out lie: according to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, there are over 150,000 Christians in Israel.

[debrand]

Well, that's a flat-out lie: according to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, there are over 150,000 Christians in Israel.

It doesn't surprise me that it is propaganda. The depressing part is that most of the people who watch Flowers of the Son won't do any independent fact checking. They will soak up the intended message without any skepticism or desire to make certain that it is true.

Here is the site for the movie, Flowers of the Son

saicff.org/festival/program/films/entry/?id=f13777

Here is the producer's site

seantrank.com

[yewchapel]

There are ancient Christian communities in Israel and all over the Middle East, so I would be very surprised if you couldn't buy a New Testament in Israel. Maybe they mean you can't buy a KJV New Testament, since I think most Christians in Israel are Catholic or Orthodox.

[Soldier of the One]

Wow is this borderline antisemitic or just antisemitic? Someone help me sort it out in my own head. :shock:

[debrand]

There are ancient Christian communities in Israel and all over the Middle East, so I would be very surprised if you couldn't buy a New Testament in Israel. Maybe they mean you can't buy a KJV New Testament, since I think most Christians in Israel are Catholic or Orthodox.

There are also many Christian tourists who visit Israel. I find it difficult to believe that the Israel government would alienate them all by never allowing New Testaments to be sold.

Do we have anyone who has been to Israel on this forum?

[Soldier of the One]

Oh my God, I've just watched the trailer. Now I have high blood pressure, I shouldn't have done that.

There's more of where that came from:

We Jews are 'hostile' towards Jews for Jesus? How about this? Stop trying to commit spiritual genocide on our people. There are 13 million Jews. And 1.5 billion Christians. How about that?

Or how about this? We Jews are happy with our faith and culture. We love God through the lens of our Torah and our Judaism and we feel very content with that. We have a coherent theology that works for us and we don't cram down other people's throats.

I'm sorry, I'm ranting. But this infuriates me to no end.

[gibbsgirls]

http://www.visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2013/02/10676/

I'm not breaking the link because the interns obviously use our site to check their grammar and facts.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey Interns!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Of course you can get a New Testament in Israel! In fact, the Ministry of Tourism makes sure that tour guides are fairly knowledgeable about it, so they can show the NT religious sites to Christian tourists.

The only thing with a shade of truth is that Israel is not friendly to missionaries. They aren't in danger for their lives or anything, but proselytizing is not permitted in Israel. Other than that, they are free to practice their religion.

ETA: See this link:

http://www.csc.org.il/template/default.aspx?PageId=39

That's right: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem has a Center for the Study of Christianity, and the courses involve in-depth examinations of the New Testament.

Incidentally, Doug obviously knows nothing about Hebrew. It's a different alphabet. "Yeshua" and "Yeshuah" are the same word, transliterated into English letters differently. The word means "salvation", and it was a common name 2,000 years ago.

[Soldier of the One]

Yup, related to the names Joshua and Yeshiyahu (commonly known as Isaiah).

[AuntCloud]

I have a Hebrew new testament, purchased in Israel, don't remember where or when. It's just one of those books that have always seemed to be in the house.

"Yeshu" is a curse word? since when? I consider myself an authority on Hebrew curse words and several in Arabic, but haven't come across this one.

I agree it sounds borderline antisemitic.

[Soldier of the One]

No disrespect intended to AuntCloud, who may have her own reasons to have a Hebrew NT but... unless you're a native Hebrew speaker (i.e. an Israeli) who is most comfortable reading in Hebrew, a Hebrew NT makes no sense: the NT was written in Ancient Greek. I've seen these 'Brit Chadashah' ('New Covenant') NT's in Hebrew float around and it annoys me because they are often used in the Jews for Jesus camp to create a false sense of authenticity of the New Testament lining up with the Old Testament/Tanakh/Hebrew Bible.

If you are a devout Christian and seriously about understanding your Scriptures, then learn Ancient Greek for the NT and Biblical Hebrew for the OT. But translating the NT into Hebrew is nonsensical.

End of second rant :)

[Guest Anonymous]

I think AuntCloud is Israeli.

[Sarah]

Oh, this just makes me so mad. It's never good to have your blood boiling in the morning already:)

[FeministShrew]

Well, that's a flat-out lie: according to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, there are over 150,000 Christians in Israel.

Ah, but they're not the right kind of christians! It's just like the missionaries who used to beg for money when I went to church (Southern Baptist, IFB, & Free Will Baptist at different times). No matter what country they were going to, or what state if they were "home" missionaries, they always claimed there were no christians & no churches there. Anything other than the denomination they belong to doesn't count.

[Soldier of the One]

I think AuntCloud is Israeli.

Thanks, Sogba. That's what I thought. In any case, it was not my intention to attack or insult AuntCloud :)

[B5SnowDog]

visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2013/02/10676/

I'm not breaking the link because the interns obviously use our site to check their grammar and facts.

I wonder if they have a similar conspiracy theory for Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring.

[patsymae]

Or perhaps Orthodox Jews, in particular, are indifferent to Jesus, since he's irrelevant to their lives--kind of like my relationship, to say, Lord Krishna--but I certainly understand if they are hostile to Jews for Jesus. Just the proseltyzing alone is crazy making, but the attempts to rewrite history and the declarations that over thousands of years all of the scholars and rabbis were just too stupid to understand their own book...

I agree that the evangelicals don't count Catholic--Roman or Eastern rite--or Eastern Orthodox as "Christians," so in that neck of the woods that probably does lower the "Christian" count substantially.

I don't think it's borderline; it's outright antisemitic. Then again, I usually think that of anything that refers to "the Jews."

Surely all of the Christians monks and scholars, not to mention, say, just parish priests (for example, there are Palestinian Christians living in Israel), not to mention all the tourists and pilgrims who visit holy sites (Bethlehem, anyone?) would be surprised to find that Christian scripture is banned in Israel.

[Soldier of the One]

Yes, this. A certain subset of evangelizing Christianity doesn't seem to grasp that Jesus is irrelevant to us (Jews') lives. We have nothing against the historical figure of Christ (if there was such a figure). We just don't believe in his claims to Messiah-hood and divinity. No hard feelings :)

[Ralar]

There are ancient Christian communities in Israel and all over the Middle East, so I would be very surprised if you couldn't buy a New Testament in Israel. Maybe they mean you can't buy a KJV New Testament, since I think most Christians in Israel are Catholic or Orthodox.

I believe most Christian Arabs in Israel are Orthodox. My hair stylist is of Palastinian descent and her family is Greek Orthodox.

I personally have seen many Christians in Israel: in Nazarith, Behtlehem, Hebron, and the Old City of Jerusalem. In fact, I saw the Greek Patriarch. It is not difficult to find Christian books, including Bibles, and other Christian artifacts if you are in the "right" neighborhoods.

[Soldier of the One]

Add to that: the many Christian groups I've seen singing Jesus-songs (LOUDLY) in the center of Jerusalem. More power to them - that's what Israeli democracy should be about (among many, many other things!) But let's not claim that Christians are 'oppressed' in Israel. Whatever one thinks of the proselytizing ban in Israel, at least it's universally applicable. The Baha'i community isn't allowed to proselytize either and they respect the strictures.

[Ralar]

Yes, this. A certain subset of evangelizing Christianity doesn't seem to grasp that Jesus is irrelevant to us (Jews') lives. We have nothing against the historical figure of Christ (if there was such a figure). We just don't believe in his claims to Messiah-hood and divinity. No hard feelings :)

A former neighbor could not grasp why I do not celebrate Christmas. She "invited" me into her apartment four or five times to show me how she had completely re-decorated her Christmas tree (totally bizarre -- different ornaments, different themes, the last time it was even a different color tree). She kept asking to see my Christmas tree, and I kept explaining to her that I don't celebrate Christmas and I don't have a Christmas tree. I explained several times that Jews do not believe Jesus was the messiah, and we generally do not have Christmas trees or celebrate Christmas. I started getting annoyed when each time she saw me she "invited" (translation: practically dragged) me in to see her re-decorated tree, and then asked if I had my tree up yet. The woman was not trying to convert me and she wasn't anti-semetic, she simply was stupid. I stepped it up a little and told her Jesus was irrelevant to me. Obviously, she still didn't understand because she cornered me again a day or two later and asked again about my tree. I finally told her Jesus has as much meaning to my life as Mohammed has to yours. She fell silent. Then she asked who is Mohammed. I said, "I guess you get the point now!" She never asked about my Christmas tree again.

[Buzzard]

visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2013/02/10676/

I'm not breaking the link because the interns obviously use our site to check their grammar and facts.

.

Soooo..... yeah.... I cant find this entry on the blog.

HI INTERNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Soldier of the One]

They might scrub their English grammar... but could they fact-check their Hebrew before proclaiming obvious inaccuracies? I am sure that amongst all those Bible scholars, there must be someone who has a basic grasp of Biblical Hebrew. Right? Right?!?

[Buzzard]

They might scrub their English grammar... but could they fact-check their Hebrew before proclaiming obvious inaccuracies? I am sure that amongst all those Bible scholars, there must be someone who has a basic grasp of Biblical Hebrew. Right? Right?!?

Pttthhhtt Fuck that shit. I can only read hebrew with the vowels and I go to temple every now and then. Dougie needs the transliterations and even then its only to pronounce something. The KJ translation is PERFECT! Who needs hebrew when you can rely on a text translated into a form of english we no longer use?