If being gay is a choice

[momoko]

And to get back to the REAL real topic at hand: If I could choose to like men, I wouldn't, because I find the concept of being with a man personally horrifying and disgusting to me. Because I'm gay. Funny, that :P

I agree completely!

[nimerha]

I've heard a lot of people cleverer than I say that a lot of anti-gay fundies being that homosexuals should choose to go straight... because it's a choice they made themselves. The choice to suppress themselves, force themselves into a completely nonsexual, or fake-sexual, relationship, to be miserable and deny a whole part of themselves - they made it. So now they have to uphold it as the only moral and right one, they have to push it onto others, in order not to resent themselves for sacrificing their own happiness and integrity.

I did not choose be romantically attracted to women. I did, however, choose to act on my growing attraction to a woman I met. I chose to spend time with her and become better friends and then come clean when I realized I was truly in love. I am choosing to create the healthiest, happiest future I can with this woman. I'd think that the American Founding-Fathers-invoking, Constitution-waving fundies would be all over this - pursuit of happiness, anyone?

[booksnbeats]

I've heard a lot of people cleverer than I say that a lot of anti-gay fundies being that homosexuals should choose to go straight... because it's a choice they made themselves. The choice to suppress themselves, force themselves into a completely nonsexual, or fake-sexual, relationship, to be miserable and deny a whole part of themselves - they made it. So now they have to uphold it as the only moral and right one, they have to push it onto others, in order not to resent themselves for sacrificing their own happiness and integrity.

This is a great point. And the idea that their God would be happiest if some people had to live celibate, miserable lives without love is supposed to make him sound like someone we should worship?

[Sola]

I actually wonder if being religious IS a choice. I tried very very hard to believe from the time I was a little girl and went through all the actions with all my energy. I believed that I was a horrible person but I couldn't quite make it all make sense, I couldn't cross the bridge into faith. I didn't believe in the tooth fairy by the time I lost my first tooth. It wasn't ever a choice I made.

On the other hand, I know people whose lives are ruled by reason and science who think atheism sounds CORRECT but aren't atheist in their hearts. My ex-husband, despite a master's degree in engineering and persistent logical rejection of the whole mess, is still a theist. So is my best friend, also a very rational person.

It doesn't make sense to me, but I support them. They're my family.

I don't think it is a choice at all. I did not choose to be an atheist, I simply am one.

I was brought up in a Christian family but despite being deeply involved in the church I never believed in 'god'. At an early age it was just fun but as I became capable of rational thinking and started reading the bible more, the more I realised that I did not believe any of it. It just gave me more questions.

[Purple]

I remember making that argument in high school, and no one having any answer to it. You'd think someone would have taken up that challenge by now - imagine how much mileage they could get out of 'proving' that being gay is a choice by choosing it, living happily as a gay man for a while, then choosing to go back to being straight. If they believe a word that comes out of their own mouths about how gays can and should choose celibacy and heterosexuality, then they have nothing to worry about.

[purpleeee]

Does it matter if it's a choice or not? This kind of rhetoric and venom never gets directed at other "choices" the Christian Bible condemns, such as adultery or lying. It's all about the fundie attitude towards sexuality, not anything actually to do with spirituality.

[Dinorah]

If being gay is a choice, why people choose to be gay in places where you can get imprisoned or killed for it? Or when they've internalized the idea it's a terrible sin and therefore are terribly torn?

Anyway, I too want always to ask the choicers when did they actually think "oh well,I wouldn't mind a roll in the hay with a person my own gender, but I know that's a terrible sin so I'll stick to people of the opposite sex."

[desertvixen]

The question of whether or not sexual orientation is a choice matters because it seems like a lot of people use their belief that it IS a choice as a weapon to deny people rights. The whole "I don't support gay marriage because it's a choice and they should just make the socially acceptable choice of opposite gender" line of argument plays with a lot of people.

[Petals]

I know that a lot of choicers use the argument we've been discussing, that it is a person's choice to be attracted to people of the same sex. However, I've also encountered much more complex choicer arguments.

I've heard that, while a person's same sex attraction (SSA) is beyond his/her control, it is his/her choice to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. People who use this argument urge the l/g/b person not to define themselves by the gender to which they are attracted. I find this argument strange, because the l/g/b people I know certainly don't define their whole life by their orientation any more than heterosexual people do. The people who use this argument probably believe that identifying as l/g/b means signing up for the nebulous and frightening "homosexual lifestyle."

I've also heard that, while a person's SSA is not a choice, it is his/her choice to have sexual interaction with people of the same gender. Some believe that l/g/b people should remain celibate, while others would encourage them to lead heterosexual lives. Believe it or not, choicers believe that these arguments are comforting to the homosexual person. They say things like, "You're not gay, you struggle with SSA. We are all sinners. You're welcome here." It's a way for them to feel like they are loving their neighbor, while still remaining bigoted. But the things they say to placate l/g/b people are just not true. If a person has brown hair, it's brown whether they call it "brown" or "struggling to remain blonde." And that l/g/b person will no longer be welcome the minute they decide to be honest with themselves about his/her identity.

So, while I think that all the choicers' arguments are wrong, they don't all believe that you can choose to whom you are attracted. Often, they believe that the choice comes with identifying as l/g/b or having homosexual contact.

You know what's sad? I heard these arguments from my psychiatrist.

[Lainey]

You know what's sad? I heard these arguments from my psychiatrist.

:shock:

[Kathryn31]

I tried to fix gay by getting married, becoming a fundie and birthin' a bunch of babies. It didn't work. It was a disaster I was still the same Samurai...attracted to women and not men. I do not believe it is a choice any more than whether or not you get brown or blue eyes.

I did get four great kids out of the deal and wouldn't trade them for anything. And neither would my dear significant other.

And those oh so holy rollers who rant the loudest are probably the deepest in their individual closets of denial.

This is one of my hot button issues....

SamuraiKatz

I think everyone has a friend like you Samurai. This is where I part with my church. I believe with every fiber that gay is something some are born with and it is not a trait that is prayed away, married away or "choiced" away. Just like any heterosexual you can be celibate but what does that prove?

Many dear friends hid in the closet and only experienced real hapiness when they accepted who they were. Most other people accepted them as well and those who don't obviously lost out.

[CelticGoddess]

I always want to ask them to tell me about the day they chose to be straight.

I routinely asked that on another message board I post at. Typically, I get one of three responses. A) completely ignored. B) a change of topic and my favorite C) of course said person did choose to be straight, they were born straight but that is not the point. Of course, that is the point but the people I ask this question of are twits and I can't expect better!

If I could choose to be straight I probably still wouldn't. I enjoy women far too much. :gay-color:

[CelticGoddess]

Something else I forgot to mention:

If being gay is a choice, then how come it occurs in nature? Why are there gay penguins? Other gay animals? Scientists have seen this nature and it has been studied. I can't remember the exact numbers but it's somewhere between 5 and 10 percent.