Republican: Guns Are 'Essential To Living The Way God Intend

[doggie]

The stupidity of this is hard to even comprehend. SO gods plan is to kill people to defend your faith hand your property?

A California Republican legislator, who is a vocal opponent of President Barack Obama's gun control proposal, believes that guns are "essential to living the way God intended."

Assemblyman Tim Donnelly called in to the AM740 KBRITE Christian radio show, "The Bottom Line," to discuss gun control on Wednesday, when he revealed that he believes firearms are part of God's plan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/1 ... 05537.html

[formergothardite]

Is this the same God who said:

If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic?

and

Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

and

And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear But Jesus answered, "No more of this!"

Because this God doesn't seem the type to want his followers to carry around guns to shoot people.

[RachelB]

Hmmm. I don't remember any guns in the bible, do you? Kind of a shitty literalist, aren't you, Mr. Donnelly? :naughty:

[formergothardite]

These people have created god in their own image. They have become god and view all of their beliefs as automatically being the right ones.

[LostSamurai]

So God intended for us to have AK-47s?

So tired of Republicans and this whole gun control 'OBAMA IZ TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS!' BS.

[linnea27]

Defending their personal safety. just like Jesus did.

[JesusFightClub]

These people have created god in their own image. They have become god and view all of their beliefs as automatically being the right ones.

QFT. That just sums it up.

[mirele]

QFT. That just sums it up.

Yeah, well, I've come to the conclusion that since I live amongst a bunch of gun nuts, that I will be calling 911 if I see any of these gun nuts doing an open carry of their weapons. I'm sorry, but not only do I not think you should have an assault rifle, I also don't think you should carry your assault rifle in public. I don't care about "legal," I don't know who you are and as far as I am concerned, you're carrying a weapon of death and should be stopped and interrogated by the police.

Yeah, I've had it with fucking gun nuts. My life and the lives of the people who live around me matter more than these people and their dick extenders (even if some are women).

[chilsa]

I'm having a really hard time understanding the reasoning people use when they say that the right to bear arms is a "God-given right." Just a few questions I have are:

1. Why would God want us to kill someone to protect our lives or property? That doesn't sound very gentle, peaceable, or Christian at all. Aren't our property and lives worldly, anyway? Like, we shouldn't be so concerned about it since the real treasure is in heaven? (This is me trying to think through this from a Christian perspective, trying to make sense of it all; I am not 100% on board with this way of thinking.)

2. These people don't want ALL United States citizens to bear arms, just the ones THEY feel comfortable with. What about the "God-given rights" of everyone to bear arms?

3. Could you (in the general sense) please stop throwing around the word "crazy"? FFS, no one on this planet is guaranteed sanity or rational thinking. Stress and chemical imbalances can strike anyone, at anytime, rendering the most stable person incapable of thinking clearly. The desire for "crazy" people to be excluded from this right that pro-gunners are so rabid about is extremely unfair, and potentially creates more danger for a segment of the population that won't have the right to protect themselves from whatever danger we "need" to be armed against.

4. Why do people forget the first clause of the 2nd Amendment? Or am I understanding the 2nd Amendment in completely the wrong way?

[GeoBQn]

The article quoted my favorite passage:

“He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

[debrand]

The stupidity of this is hard to even comprehend. SO gods plan is to kill people to defend your faith hand your property?

A California Republican legislator, who is a vocal opponent of President Barack Obama's gun control proposal, believes that guns are "essential to living the way God intended."

Assemblyman Tim Donnelly called in to the AM740 KBRITE Christian radio show, "The Bottom Line," to discuss gun control on Wednesday, when he revealed that he believes firearms are part of God's plan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/1 ... 05537.html

They follow the same man who told people that if they have two cloaks to give the extra one away. I don't see much about keeping what is yours for yourself. Conservative American Christianity is not based on anything that Jesus taught. It is a nationalistic, us versus them movement that uses their savior as a figurehead and not someone to emulate

[ems]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davidhenso ... y-the-nra/

[gravelmonkey]

Well, that's the first time I've heard that interpretation of the commandment "Thou shall not kill."

The article quoted my favorite passage:

“He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

That's a beautiful verse.

[Boogalou]

I'm having a really hard time understanding the reasoning people use when they say that the right to bear arms is a "God-given right." Just a few questions I have are:

1. Why would God want us to kill someone to protect our lives or property? That doesn't sound very gentle, peaceable, or Christian at all. Aren't our property and lives worldly, anyway? Like, we shouldn't be so concerned about it since the real treasure is in heaven? (This is me trying to think through this from a Christian perspective, trying to make sense of it all; I am not 100% on board with this way of thinking.)

I've never really understood that either. Not just why God would want people to protect property with deadly force but why an individual would want to protect their property with deadly force. 90%+ of the stuff I own is very much replaceable. The rest is not and has more sentimental value than monetary value but I don't really think that there is anything that I own that I would be willing to kill someone over. Life I would put in a different category but I'm still not running out to buy a gun.

Another thing is if guns are essential to living the way God intended why have humans been living in a way God did not intend for so long? Assuming the earth is 6,000 years old (which is utter bullshit, but what can you do) and guns were not invented until the 12th century then humans have been living the wrong way for 5100 years, the majority of human history. Some groups have been living that way for even longer, say 5,500 years or more. People need to think about what they are saying before they say it.

[browngrl]

It all makes sense now. I am an atheist and have no guns and no plans to ever have a gun. Thanks fundies for explaining everything.

[chilsa]

Boogalou, I would agree with you about the need to protect a life. I'm questioning the Christian aspect of this. If heaven is the eternal reward, wouldn't life on Earth not be as important to someone seeking that reward? Wouldn't dying therefor be desirable? I don't want this to come across in any way as advocating or justifying killing people. I guess I'm just trying to get into the minds of some people to understand them.

One of my students (high school aged) asked me if I would kill a person holding my young son hostage. My instinctive answer? No. Not if that person is literally holding my child. Not if my child in any way could get struck by my bullet. Some students in the class understood and agreed with this; some struggled with my answer. Having a gun does not make a person invincible or guarantee a life is going to be saved. So many arguments revolve around this mentality of the hero with a gun. The guy with the AR15 in JCPenney? Stupid, irresponsible, and ridiculous. Who's to know, at a glance, that that person has your best interests in mind?

[Becket70]

I live in California. Is it any wonder that the Repubican Party here in CA is almost an afterthought? They are truly a fringe Party out this way. By the way, in the two years since Arnold vacated the governor's mansion the current governor, Jerry Brown (D), has balanced the budget and we now have a healthy surplus. Things are looking here except for the fact that we lost Huell Howser (you have to have lived in CA to know who he was). RIP Huell.

[Sky_Diamond]

The only plausible reason that I can think of is that guns are a good way of population control. Lets face it, if there is no abortions and contraceptions, the population is going to rocket. Death Penalties are too expensive, and gun crime does your job for you!

[debrand]

Conservatives, like Glenn Beck, often point out that if our rights didn't come from god, then the government can take them away. That argument makes no sense because there isn't really much in the bible about rights and privileges. There certainly isn't anything in the bible about the right to own a weapon. However, conservatives make the jump that if their rights came from god then the rights in the constitution are all god given. So the second amendment is a god given right even though there isn't anything in Christianity to back up the right to own a weapon

[wildflower]

They follow the same man who told people that if they have two cloaks to give the extra one away. I don't see much about keeping what is yours for yourself. Conservative American Christianity is not based on anything that Jesus taught. It is a nationalistic, us versus them movement that uses their savior as a figurehead and not someone to emulate

I agree completely. Not only are most conservative Christians (ironically) ignorant of New Testament teaching, they are also, when confronted with their ignorance, completely uncaring about the fact that they are completely disobeying the commands of the guy that they are supposed to follow. I wish that liberal Christians would be more vocal against the conservatives. Most fundies will gladly point out when someone is not obeying their favorite commandments. I think Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Quakers, etc. need to repay the favor.

[latraviata]

These people have created god in their own image. They have become god and view all of their beliefs as automatically being the right ones.

God is a creation by man, so you can shape him as you want.

[MyName]

If only Chick Fil A sold guns. It'd be like THE fundie/wing nut hang out.

[SamuraiKatz]

I have no words.....other than....guns did not exist when Jesus walked the Earth.

[Boogalou]

Boogalou, I would agree with you about the need to protect a life. I'm questioning the Christian aspect of this. If heaven is the eternal reward, wouldn't life on Earth not be as important to someone seeking that reward? Wouldn't dying therefor be desirable? I don't want this to come across in any way as advocating or justifying killing people. I guess I'm just trying to get into the minds of some people to understand them.

One of my students (high school aged) asked me if I would kill a person holding my young son hostage. My instinctive answer? No. Not if that person is literally holding my child. Not if my child in any way could get struck by my bullet. Some students in the class understood and agreed with this; some struggled with my answer. Having a gun does not make a person invincible or guarantee a life is going to be saved. So many arguments revolve around this mentality of the hero with a gun. The guy with the AR15 in JCPenney? Stupid, irresponsible, and ridiculous. Who's to know, at a glance, that that person has your best interests in mind?

I would question it too. How far does "don't kill" go? Should you not kill directly? Does a lack of action that results in more lives or one innocent life being lost still count as killing? I think they are complex moral issues with probably no right answer. When you start getting Christian morality involved I think it becomes even more complex. Either way, I honestly hope I will never be put in a situation where I have that decision to make.

No matter what though, I can totally imagine Jesus walking through JCPenny with a gun. I am pretty sure he advocated for things like that, right?

[jenny_islander]

Boogalou, I would agree with you about the need to protect a life. I'm questioning the Christian aspect of this. If heaven is the eternal reward, wouldn't life on Earth not be as important to someone seeking that reward? Wouldn't dying therefor be desirable? I don't want this to come across in any way as advocating or justifying killing people. I guess I'm just trying to get into the minds of some people to understand them.

One of my students (high school aged) asked me if I would kill a person holding my young son hostage. My instinctive answer? No. Not if that person is literally holding my child. Not if my child in any way could get struck by my bullet. Some students in the class understood and agreed with this; some struggled with my answer. Having a gun does not make a person invincible or guarantee a life is going to be saved. So many arguments revolve around this mentality of the hero with a gun. The guy with the AR15 in JCPenney? Stupid, irresponsible, and ridiculous. Who's to know, at a glance, that that person has your best interests in mind?

You might tell your students that there is a reason that specialists are called in whenever there is a hostage situation. Snipers are very, very rare and they have to have extensive training and practice on top of considerable natural talent; they can't spring into action like Clark Kent saving Lois Lane for the first time. Also, do they know the precise spots to hit to make the hands of a freshly made corpse instantaneously relax instead of contracting? I sure don't!

As for the Christian aspect, this has been kicked around the Church for about as long as the Church has existed and the prevailing answer is, "No, dying to get to Heaven isn't the point; the point is what Jesus told us, that the Kingdom of God is among/upon/within us. So living as branches of the True Vine or children of the Living God or whatever metaphor you want to use--there are a lot of them--is the point. But if we must die before we are old and ready to go, we should die as well as we can: with grace, helping as many people as we can, and trusting that we will be met on the other side of the river."