Virginia doesn't even make sure homeschool kids are taught.

[Mythicwings]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/1 ... lp00000009

F&$%. I left a really displeased comment on the Huffington Post fb post about this, since they actually asked if this should be allowed.

[shesinsane]

Earlier this year I remember some "Tebow" legislation about letting home school kids play on school football teams, leading me to conclude that football is a higher priority than education. Way to go, Virginia.

[ILoveJellybeans]

This shouldnt be legal. Every child has a right to an education. Homeschooling parents should be required to teach their children the same stuff as a child of their ability level in school would. Its not fair on the child to miss out a bit of their education just because their parents dont like teaching it. It would be wrong for me, if I had a kid, to homeschool it and then decide not to teach them to read because I couldnt be bothered, so why should parents be allowed not to teach their children science for religious reasons. If anything, its good to teach your kids both sides so they arent laughed at in debates when theyre older for being so ignorant of the other side that they cant make a proper argument for their own beliefs.

And seriously, they arent checking whether the kids get any education at all? Rediculous, their children will be worse off than even the Duggars are, at least they get an education, even if it is by an unqualified 14 year old with school books that arent scientifically accurate.

[themadapple]

I remember reading a Reddit IAmA about a guy who did not receive much beyond a third grade education. When he asked to attend a public school, his parents shot him down as they would get into trouble with the state :roll:

Everyone is entitled to an education. It's a right, not a privilege. Everyone. No excuses. And a good education not only benefits the students, but society as a whole. I'm not against homeschooling in itself, provided the parents can demonstrate their competence. And I'm well aware how terribly lacking some public schools can be. That many are so cavalier about something that is so crucial makes me want to vomit.

[Witsec7]

Unrestricted home schooling has been supported by the libertarian party. It's not couched in those words, the message is rather subtle.

Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government.

[Cannelle]

I have mixed emotions on this. When I lived there (don't know if anything's changed), Illinois was completely unregulated in regards to homeschooling. We didn't need to do anything- didn't need to register or sign up for anything. I just didn't send my son to school at all, and we did all our stuff on our own. I liked that for us, because it allowed us to move at his pace, learning what he needed and what he wanted, and I didn't have anyone breathing down my neck.

First year in TN, we had to register with the state, which was a nerve-wracking experience, and you had to pay a small fee for it. You also had to list exactly what you were planning on teaching throughout the year, and there was a bunch of other stuff I don't remember. It was all kind of stressful, because we moved right around the cutoff date to register as homeschoolers, and I almost got fined extra because of that, but the woman behind the desk was really nice and cut me some slack. Seriously, they made me feel like I was doing something wrong, instead of trying to keep my son's education consistent with all our moves (and age appropriate, as he was reading chapter books by the time he was five).

Second year, I found that the state really, really, really wants you to sign up with an umbrella school. Fine, even though it's like $75 to do so. Sigh. BUT, the deal here is, all the acceptable umbrella schools here are Christian and require you to sign a statement of faith. :roll: WTF ever. I signed it. I have no problems lying when it comes to what I have to do to provide my kid the best education possible. But really, that's ridiculous and more than a little unfair- it's basically saying you have to be Christian (or lie) to homeschool. Not cool, in my book. THAT is what I dislike about the oversight. (To be fair, the umbrella school we used was very pleasant, the people were very nice and extremely helpful when I needed some extra paperwork when I sent my son to public school. They weren't overly pushy or weird about religion, which I appreciated.)

But even there, all I had to do was list what I was teaching, and what his grades were (which I thought was really stupid). There was no educational oversight. THAT is something I wouldn't have minded at all. It would be cool if there were, say, a visiting homeschool teacher/inspector person who could go around and meet with local homeschooling families once or twice a year, check out what they're doing, make sure the kids have educational materials, can do basic math/reading, stuff like that. I would've even been okay with small amounts of yearly testing for progress (this would be tricky because not every homeschooler is on the same educational schedule as the public schools. If a kid does basic geometry in fourth grade instead of third, but tackles beginning algebra before his/her public school counterparts, the test results are going to come out skewed, you know? That's why I think a more personalized approach, like an occasional visiting inspector or an interview at some office would be more effective to check for progress).

We never hung out with other homeschoolers, simply because I wasn't a fan of the lax attitude towards education that I found a lot of them (especially the religious ones, but it wasn't limited to them) had. And that could've very well been on me- I was very driven when homeschooling my son, and my constant anxiety that I was failing him (I wasn't; his state test scores from last school year, his first in public school, came back yesterday. He's advanced in two areas, 11 points from the advanced score in another, and hanging in there in math. I had a hard time with math as a kid too, so it's understandable, but this year seems to be going better for him, he's doing a little better! :clap: His grades have all been A's and B's. I'm very proud of both him and me! :lol: ) was one of the reasons I decided it was time for him to go to public school. But I really didn't like the, "It's not a big deal if my (absolutely normal, completely neurotypical) seven year old isn't reading at all or doing math, he/she will catch up soon!" attitude, and I encountered it a LOT. So I think some oversight is necessary, but the oversight that's implemented in a lot of places is the wrong kind.

[Mythicwings]

Unrestricted home schooling has been supported by the libertarian party. It's not couched in those words, the message is rather subtle.

The way the Libertarian party speaks, they may as well say they are Anarchists.

And if religious exemptions ARE allowed, what about the sects that don't believe girls should be able to read? you know, "picture books for women". How many girls are purposefully not being taught to read?

[flojo]

Unrestricted home schooling has been supported by the libertarian party. It's not couched in those words, the message is rather subtle.

Ugh. Messages like that bother me so much. Your children aren't your property to screw up as you please.

[PennySycamore]

Thomas Jefferson is spinning in his grave.

[Katydid]

This shouldnt be legal. Every child has a right to an education. Homeschooling parents should be required to teach their children the same stuff as a child of their ability level in school would. Its not fair on the child to miss out a bit of their education just because their parents dont like teaching it. It would be wrong for me, if I had a kid, to homeschool it and then decide not to teach them to read because I couldnt be bothered, so why should parents be allowed not to teach their children science for religious reasons. If anything, its good to teach your kids both sides so they arent laughed at in debates when theyre older for being so ignorant of the other side that they cant make a proper argument for their own beliefs.

And seriously, they arent checking whether the kids get any education at all? Rediculous, their children will be worse off than even the Duggars are, at least they get an education, even if it is by an unqualified 14 year old with school books that arent scientifically accurate.

This. Exactly this. I have nothing against homeschooling in general, but I think that it should be regulated to ensure that all children are getting proper educations.

[YPestis]

FJers may remember an article about a 9 year old girl who spent her days dressing and feeding her younger siblings, and cleaning and learning to garden....yet haven't yet been taught to read. The writer thought rather than labeling the girl as academically behind, she was actually quite *advanced* for her age because she was capable of doing all that womanly work which "God created her to do". This was the US and the article was written in the last few years. I swear I've seen similar articles written about rural girls in India among other places.

We don't let parents get away with starving their children's bodies, why should we let them get away with starving their minds? We all know what extreme fundies like the Maxwells think of women's education. Give it another generation, we'll get a batch of fundies who can't educate their own kids anyways, or who refuse to educate them properly. The most vulnerable will be the daughters. If no oversight is provided, fundies can easily decide education stops at the sixth grade for the girls so they can better serve their families and brothers. After all, what's the point of teaching girls beyond elementary school if the ultimate goal is to get them married and popping out babies? Of course, the last time I heard attitudes like that was in places like Afghanistan.....

[Mythicwings]

FJers may remember an article about a 9 year old girl who spent her days dressing and feeding her younger siblings, and cleaning and learning to garden....yet haven't yet been taught to read. The writer thought rather than labeling the girl as academically behind, she was actually quite *advanced* for her age because she was capable of doing all that womanly work which "God created her to do". This was the US and the article was written in the last few years. I swear I've seen similar articles written about rural girls in India among other places.

We don't let parents get away with starving their children's bodies, why should we let them get away with starving their minds? We all know what extreme fundies like the Maxwells think of women's education. Give it another generation, we'll get a batch of fundies who can't educate their own kids anyways, or who refuse to educate them properly. The most vulnerable will be the daughters. If no oversight is provided, fundies can easily decide education stops at the sixth grade for the girls so they can better serve their families and brothers. After all, what's the point of teaching girls beyond elementary school if the ultimate goal is to get them married and popping out babies? Of course, the last time I heard attitudes like that was in places like Afghanistan.....

And it's just a few generations ago in the U.S. that a lot of people felt that girls didn't need to learn to read, not because of their religious beliefs but culturally. It was just seen as practical to not bother with educating girls OR boys, but especially girls, when the work they would do in their lives didn't require it. Remember - for those of you who have read it, Rose Wilder's friend in the book from when they moved to the Ozarks? Rose went off to play during lunch with her friend who lived on a farm near the school house. The friend didn't go to school because her father just didn't see why she should. So yeah - if this lifestyle of quiverfull/fundie/homeschooling goes a couple of generations, they will probably figure that education itself just isn't needed, especially the ones who farm.

[itsnikki05]

FJers may remember an article about a 9 year old girl who spent her days dressing and feeding her younger siblings, and cleaning and learning to garden....yet haven't yet been taught to read. The writer thought rather than labeling the girl as academically behind, she was actually quite *advanced* for her age because she was capable of doing all that womanly work which "God created her to do". This was the US and the article was written in the last few years. I swear I've seen similar articles written about rural girls in India among other places.

We don't let parents get away with starving their children's bodies, why should we let them get away with starving their minds? We all know what extreme fundies like the Maxwells think of women's education. Give it another generation, we'll get a batch of fundies who can't educate their own kids anyways, or who refuse to educate them properly. The most vulnerable will be the daughters. If no oversight is provided, fundies can easily decide education stops at the sixth grade for the girls so they can better serve their families and brothers. After all, what's the point of teaching girls beyond elementary school if the ultimate goal is to get them married and popping out babies? Of course, the last time I heard attitudes like that was in places like Afghanistan.....

I don't have a problem with children learning to clean and garden. That could prove to be a useful skill at some point. *shrug* But reading should take precedence. You have to read to do just about anything. That really makes me sad for the kids. :(

[mrs]

I agree, there NEEDS to be accountability when homeschooling. But I am from Northern Virginia, and my county's public homeschooling curriculum is one of the best in the country. I know NOVA is way different then rural Virginia...but things are changing in VA.

*Edited: I am sorry. I am in a bad mood. I had a very young cousin pass away a few weeks ago, and my FIL will pass away sometime this week.

[smores]

SC didn't check one thing after the paperwork was filed to see if my mom homeschooled me. Guess what, the video school i did was illegal and she did NOT even make sure I did it, she went to work. So in other words, I didn't learn shit my 8th grade year, but I had been in honors classes the year before and already knew the material so I could pass tests.

No one checks. They say they could, but they don't. Not enough time, not enough resources. Until education reform happens and in a big way here in the US, kids will continue to fall through the cracks.

I know that there are great homeschooling parents out there, but unless a parent is checking curriculum against state standards, they are shooting in the dark for many things children should know. :(

[Mythicwings]

I agree, there NEEDS to be accountability when homeschooling. But I am from Northern Virginia, and my county's public homeschooling curriculum is one of the best in the country. I know NOVA is way different then rural Virginia...but things are changing in VA.

*Edited: I am sorry. I am in a bad mood. I had a very young cousin pass away a few weeks ago, and my FIL will pass away sometime this week.

What are you apologizing for? What you write was nice. And I am so so so so sorry about your little cousin and your FIL

[jesssnerch]

I live in Missouri and I just started homeschooling this year. My daughter is first grade, but last year she went to public school kindergarten. I couldn't believe how easy it was to sign her out of the school system! I just signed my name and put our address on a paper and that was it! No one checks up on me or asks to see what curriculum I am using. It's honestly very scary because even though I take being my child's primary educator seriously, there may be a lot of parents who don't. They're just free to do their children the biggest disservice of their lives by denying them a basic education.

[mrs]

What are you apologizing for? What you write was nice. And I am so so so so sorry about your little cousin and your FIL

Thank You.

[Wolfie]

You also had to list exactly what you were planning on teaching throughout the year, and there was a bunch of other stuff I don't remember.

And teachers don't have to do this? Why shouldn't you tell them what you are planning on doing? If you go farther they're not going to hurt you. There are state standards that you should be making sure that your child is getting anyway.

[Witsec7]

And teachers don't have to do this? Why shouldn't you tell them what you are planning on doing? If you go farther they're not going to hurt you. There are state standards that you should be making sure that your child is getting anyway.

Thanks Wolfie, this is one of my pet peeves with some home schoolers. They just don't realize they must plan, they must set goals and they must realize their own limitations. Each parent should know what their state standards are and what they need to do to meet them. In the states with lots of home school loop holes we've got the likes of Brandy unschooling kids with no concern about academic benchmarks.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Thanks Wolfie, this is one of my pet peeves with some home schoolers. They just don't realize they must plan, they must set goals and they must realize their own limitations. Each parent should know what their state standards are and what they need to do to meet them. In the states with lots of home school loop holes we've got the likes of Brandy unschooling kids with no concern about academic benchmarks.

I'll go a step further. This kind of attitude is why I think that so many homeschooling parents are fucking lazy, and arrogant. Even the non-religious ones. They think that they are oh so much better than teachers who have gone through professional training to become certified, but balk at any regulations to ensure they are actually capable of competently teaching. They think they have the wherewithal to competently educate their children, which will affect the rest of their lives, but putting together records and paperwork for the state is too much to ask.

So few of them seem to get that yes, there are bad homeschoolers-- many, many of them-- and that the point of state regulations is not to unduly harass them but to make sure their child gets the education that they have a right to. Neither do they get that in most cases "The public school is of poor quality, or I don't like the curriculum they use," is irrelevant to how qualified they are to teach.

For my part I will not be a supporter of homeschooling until the parents are required to have the exact same certifications as public school teachers.

End rant.

[desertvixen]

We don't let parents get away with starving their children's bodies, why should we let them get away with starving their minds? We all know what extreme fundies like the Maxwells think of women's education. Give it another generation, we'll get a batch of fundies who can't educate their own kids anyways, or who refuse to educate them properly. The most vulnerable will be the daughters. If no oversight is provided, fundies can easily decide education stops at the sixth grade for the girls so they can better serve their families and brothers. After all, what's the point of teaching girls beyond elementary school if the ultimate goal is to get them married and popping out babies? Of course, the last time I heard attitudes like that was in places like Afghanistan.....

This.

[Wolfie]

For my part I will not be a supporter of homeschooling until the parents are required to have the exact same certifications as public school teachers.

This is why I'm leary of private and charter schools as well. They don't have to have the certifications that public school teachers have. (though some do, but you really have to dig to find out.)

[Glass Cowcatcher]

This is why I'm leary of private and charter schools as well. They don't have to have the certifications that public school teachers have. (though some do, but you really have to dig to find out.)

The push towards charter schools terrifies me.

[Witsec7]

I'll go a step further. This kind of attitude is why I think that so many homeschooling parents are fucking lazy, and arrogant. Even the non-religious ones. They think that they are oh so much better than teachers who have gone through professional training to become certified, but balk at any regulations to ensure they are actually capable of competently teaching. They think they have the wherewithal to competently educate their children, which will affect the rest of their lives, but putting together records and paperwork for the state is too much to ask.

So few of them seem to get that yes, there are bad homeschoolers-- many, many of them-- and that the point of state regulations is not to unduly harass them but to make sure their child gets the education that they have a right to. Neither do they get that in most cases "The public school is of poor quality, or I don't like the curriculum they use," is irrelevant to how qualified they are to teach.

For my part I will not be a supporter of homeschooling until the parents are required to have the exact same certifications as public school teachers.

End rant.

I truly agree with you. I had a pal who was a former school teacher with a masters and she was rigorous when it came to lesson plans and benchmarks. This woman loved to teach and she was the first to admit that teaching your kids is a lot different than teaching in a classroom situation. When she anticipated teaching physics and felt she was weak in the subject she went back to school and took classes. Both of her girls went on to top tier universities with scholarships. In the end, she admits she had no life for all those years of home educating.

The other point I want to make regarding oversight is district contact with home schoolers. Here in Oregon we've seen kids murdered and neglected by their parents while they were home schooled. Lack of contact in some of these situations ends in tragedy. Every year I hear of a new case. Some years there are multiple kids neglected and abused from several different families. It's ugly and preventable.