Abortion Doctors Go to Hell. Except Me!!!!

[emmiedahl]

http://eugenebrandt.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -pro-life/

Ah, the weird shit you find on the internet. Here is a testimony from an OBGYN doctor who says he used to perform abortions but had an epiphany. His story (which I am not sure I believe but I plan to research) is that he performed more than 700 abortions and then was convicted of the sanctity of life.

I don't understand how someone can perform the procedure over and over and then suddenly change their mind. This feels to me like that bitch who said she ran PP. Thoughts?

Also, what is up with God damning someone to hell for just about anything but if you believe in Jesus it is all good? It makes no sense to me. It seems like God would care a lot about what you do.

Edited for clarity, and to fix the link. :oops:

[Minerva]

Your link is to a story about Monsanto.

And is it Barnard Nathanson? Because I've always been convinced he's having a good laugh at how gullible the anti-abortion movement is.

[Guest Anonymous]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/15/monsanto-donates-4-2-million-to-defeat-california-gmo-labeling-initiative/

Ah, the weird shit you find on the internet. Here is a testimony from a doctor who says he used to perform abortions but had an epiphany. His story (which I am not sure I believe but I plan to research) is that he performed more than 700 abortions and then was convicted of the sanctity of life.

I don't understand how someone can perform the procedure over and over and then suddenly change their mind. This feels to me like that bitch who said she ran PP. Thoughts?

Also, what is up with God damning someone to hell for just about anything but if you believe in Jesus it is all good? It makes no sense to me. It seems like God would care a lot about what you do.

That link is about GMO labelling.

Also, regarding the bolded, it looks like you could do with reading a few more Chick tracts. Then it would all make sense. :roll:

[emmiedahl]

Sorry, I apparently copied the wrong link. The things that happen when you have multiple windows open! I edited it and the correct link is here also http://eugenebrandt.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -pro-life/

[emmiedahl]

That link is about GMO labelling.

Also, regarding the bolded, it looks like you could do with reading a few more Chick tracts. Then it would all make sense. :roll:

That has never made sense to me. No one has ever been able to explain it to my tiny Jewish feminist brain, and many have tried.

[Minerva]

The collective conscience of the country was changed in a couple of years by a clever campaign spearheaded by NARAL (National Abortion Right Action League) and one of it’s co-founders Dr. Bernard Nathanson. The idea was that you could be morally opposed to abortion but defend another’s right to CHOOSE to abort.

I wasn't around, but it seems really naïve to believe that the "pro-choice but wouldn't personally have an abortion" position was invented by the early pro-choice movement. It's perfectly natural (and adult) to think that something is wrong but to realize that other perfectly reasonable people think differently than you and that your opinion is not more valid than theirs.

That was when I came to know God personally and began to study His word. I learned that each of those babies whose lives I snuffed out had worth because they were created and bore the image of God.

The Bible doesn't say shit about fetuses' worth or about the sanctity of their life. I wonder what really turned him anti-abortion. People often cite the Bible as the thing that changed their mind. Since it's logically impossible for that to be true, I've always been dying to know the real reason behind their change of opinion. I've no doubt there's a reason they keep it to themselves.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I wasn't around, but it seems really naïve to believe that the "pro-choice but wouldn't personally have an abortion" position was invented by the early pro-choice movement. It's perfectly natural (and adult) to think that something is wrong but to realize that other perfectly reasonable people think differently than you and that your opinion is not more valid than theirs.

Exactly. People who feel something is wrong and they would never do it and then they decide they should make a law so no one can ever do it sound crazy to me. A rational person wouldn't say that just because something is their opinion it should be the law. And a rational person can provide much better reasons for why laws should be changed than "That's how I feeeeel" But pro-life people have never sounded rational or adult to me. They sound more like a child who thinks because I said so is a good argument.

[klf7412]

That has never made sense to me. No one has ever been able to explain it to my tiny Jewish feminist brain, and many have tried.

I can explain it to you.... Lol

Basically, (and this is coming from a completely liberal, vegan christian) when you realize you have done something wrong, if you "repent" Jesus will forgive you, because he died for our sins. If you never believe what you did was wrong, you are never forgiven. Make sense?

[treemom]

Oh we understand the logic, we just think it makes god an asshole.

[FearLyss]

There must be something in the bible about hypocirsy being ok, right? :roll:

My mom's pastor/best friend was trying to talk me into believing (you know the kind that uses the bible to convince, but can never explain why i should believe the bible or have answers to the passages I point out, lol). I told her god and jesus sound like egotistical douchebags. She said the whole "on judgement day" bullshit, and I said, I can't wait, I have a lot to discuss. I am no longer welcome.

Anyway, when I was 14 I was saved, so now, even as a heathen, I can do anything I want and God will find a way to make sure I repent before I die :lol:

[bananacat]

That has never made sense to me. No one has ever been able to explain it to my tiny Jewish feminist brain, and many have tried.

I'll try to explain it and keep the sarcasm to a minimum since I'm an atheist now. Basically, everyone sins because of Eve and the apple (called original sin). The "wages" or consequences of sin is death, which applies to all sins. Because the punishment for all sins is the same, that means that all sins are equally bad. Therefore, telling a white lie is just as bad as murdering a million people. You can't ever be perfectly sinless because everyone sins and since you occasionally tell lies or think sexy thoughts, you're exactly the same as Hitler, basically. According to Evangelical Christians, old-fashioned Jews before Jesus's time had to sacrifice animals to atone for their sins, which sort of contains a grain of truth but is very misunderstood. So to stop all that, God sent his son and then just had that one-time sacrifice. So instead of sacrificing a pigeon or a goat, we have to sacrifice Jesus. But that event already happened, so we just have to say that we accept it and understand why it happened. And since all sins are equally bad, if we want to be forgiven for thinking sexy thoughts, we must also accept the forgiveness of someone who thinks he committed 700 murders, so long as he is properly repentant. Does that make any sense? Instead of making the sacrifice for atonement, he just has to accept that it was already made and truly believe it.

[emmiedahl]

The Bible doesn't say shit about fetuses' worth or about the sanctity of their life. I wonder what really turned him anti-abortion. People often cite the Bible as the thing that changed their mind. Since it's logically impossible for that to be true, I've always been dying to know the real reason behind their change of opinion. I've no doubt there's a reason they keep it to themselves.

I firmly believe there is something else that happened here and this is why. I was VP of my pre-med club and abortion came up. Even the pro-choice people said they would probably not perform abortions as part of their practice. I totally would, and in fact I look forward to it, but many people still have some moral qualms about abortion even while identifying and voting pro-choice. So this man was like me at one point; he was so pro-choice that he was gung-ho about it and willing to risk his life to do it. Because let's be real. That is what we are talking about in an age when pro-lifers are eager to kill doctors over this procedure.

Something else had to have happened. This guy removed fetuses from uteruses more than 700 times and saw exactly how non-human they are. He saw the relief on the would-be mothers' faces and heard their thanks. He was in the trenches. Whatever happened, it had to be big.

And the Bible says nothing about fetuses being human, so that ain't it.

As for the idea that you can be a mass murderer (by Christian standards) and go to heaven while the good-hearted atheist up the road who has never killed a spider goes to hell, all of the reasons I have heard on this thread and elsewhere are predicated on the concept of original sin. This concept is not in the Tanakh (old testament) nor in the new testament and Jews don't believe it, so this argument is not convincing to me. When I held my newborns, they were perfect and blameless. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise. Is there a reason that is Biblical--that is, not based on the extra-Biblical concept of original sin?

[klf7412]

I firmly believe there is something else that happened here and this is why. I was VP of my pre-med club and abortion came up. Even the pro-choice people said they would probably not perform abortions as part of their practice. I totally would, and in fact I look forward to it, but many people still have some moral qualms about abortion even while identifying and voting pro-choice. So this man was like me at one point; he was so pro-choice that he was gung-ho about it and willing to risk his life to do it. Because let's be real. That is what we are talking about in an age when pro-lifers are eager to kill doctors over this procedure.

Something else had to have happened. This guy removed fetuses from uteruses more than 700 times and saw exactly how non-human they are. He saw the relief on the would-be mothers' faces and heard their thanks. He was in the trenches. Whatever happened, it had to be big.

Just wondering... Why would you look forward to it?? :?:

[treemom]

Because emmiedahl would know the amazing good she is doing

[emmiedahl]

Just wondering... Why would you look forward to it?? :?:

First, because there is a real need for it. I am interested in filling areas of need because I am one of those people who likes to be needed.

Second, because I have friends who had to leave their area, even their state, to get an abortion. Not just because of laws, but because there were not doctors who would perform abortions.

Third, and this is purely selfish, I love to fix people's problems. But there are not usually easy answers. Abortion is an easy answer to a problem. It is like when your friend says she needs chairs and you just happen to have extra ones in your garage you wanted to get rid of. kwim? I have this need to make it all better. It is why I could not give up on medicine as a career. My uncle was an ER doctor and because we are Jews from another place, he and my aunt lived in our house for a lot of my childhood. He used to tell me about the things he did. How he took a horrible situation and made it better. I know it is not always that simple, but I really want to make things better when I can, and it is my major motivation in my career choice.

[Anxious Girl]

Male fear of women not want to be Christian breeders for God's Army exceptionalism on abortion opinions and the law? Checkeroo. My Jigglypuff would indeed start a Save the Menz! campaign.

[NurseNell]

http://eugenebrandt.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/why-pro-life/

Ah, the weird shit you find on the internet. Here is a testimony from an OBGYN doctor who says he used to perform abortions but had an epiphany. His story (which I am not sure I believe but I plan to research) is that he performed more than 700 abortions and then was convicted of the sanctity of life.

I don't understand how someone can perform the procedure over and over and then suddenly change their mind.

Dr. Bernard Nathanson did more than 700 abortions, and then changed his point of view on it so I believe it's possible.

[desertvixen]

I wasn't around, but it seems really naïve to believe that the "pro-choice but wouldn't personally have an abortion" position was invented by the early pro-choice movement. It's perfectly natural (and adult) to think that something is wrong but to realize that other perfectly reasonable people think differently than you and that your opinion is not more valid than theirs.

I don't think it's so much the moral issue as it understanding that everyone's situation is different.

There's really very few circumstances in which I would have an abortion but a) I would like to have another child very much b) have a good job with good benefits c) have a supportive partner and family. Many women are not in my position, which is why they may want to/need to have an abortion.

And it's not my place to judge someone's reasons. I had one of those discussions with a pro-life guy who believes women are having late-term abortions for kicks the other day, and I just wanted to strangle him. Of course, he also believes that somehow PP is using federal money for abortions, despite, you know, the Hyde Amendment.

[emmiedahl]

Dr. Bernard Nathanson did more than 700 abortions, and then changed his point of view on it so I believe it's possible.

Right, but he was a very unstable and possibly mentally ill person, especially toward the end of his life. He went through three religions, four wives, and had lifelong issues with substance abuse. I am assuming this doctor in this article is in his right mind, although maybe this is not a fair assumption.