Project Respect, or Here's How to Stroke My Ego

[Rhetorica]

So if anyone is having a slow news day, you may want to check this out--a whole series of posts by a single fundie guy on stay-at-home-daughter's site about why the menfolk need respect, and how to properly respect them. stayathomedaughter.com/?p=2735

It's such a prime example of the idealism--or one-up-manship--of 20-somethings. (Having been there myself one day, regrettably.) What blows me away is just how openly self-masturbatory it is. His first courtship serves as a running example of what can go wrong in a relationship when the girl doesn't respect the guy enough. Of course no one ever gets around to writing a series for men about how to respect women because, of course, women need love, not respect. /sarcasm. Or--as in the case of the story linked in Merry Happy's recent post--they don't really deserve either.

[samurai_sarah]

From the text:

Do you notice masculine characteristics in the man you are in a relationship with or married to? If so, express this to him.

Define "masculine". With all due respect, it doesn't mean the same from one culture to another. Now, the region where I come from, chopping wood is "women's work". I'm given to understand that handling an axe is quite masculine elsewhere in the world. Something to do with strenght and stuff. Sorry, not so in my world. So, please define what's masculine. And please, don't fall into the trope of defining masculine in opposition to feminine. That's trite and tired.

God did not create men and women to be independent of each other, but rather to be interdependent upon each other.

Your deity didn't? Well, for procreation, male and female are sort of necessary, but for all else? Let me tell you about a dozen stories about my undergrad days, when...oh, never mind. Just note: No. When it comes to subsistence, a little bit of knowledge will go a long way. Your livestock or fields don't care about your x or y chromosomes. Neither do appliances.

If a guy offers to carry something for you, let him. Let him open doors for you and chivalrous things of that nature. When a man wants to do such things for you, let him…to him, it’s not so much a question of if you can, but can he do it for you.

Why? No, I mean it. I'm a woman, and if I see someone struggling, I offer to help if I can. Why put that burden only on men? It's common courtesy. A "no thanks" has never ever killed anyone, let alone emasculated anyone. And honestly dear (I mean "dear" in a non-female devaluing way, I call everyone "dear", regardless of sex, gender, creed or ethnicity) y-chromosomes don't confer ability. There is NO way, I'd let my taller half tinker with my car. He has no idea about cars. I know my car. So, politely step back and let me get on with it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So how does this play out in respect? If a guy offers to carry something for you, let him. Let him open doors for you and chivalrous things of that nature. When a man wants to do such things for you, let him…to him, it’s not so much a question of if you can, but can he do it for you. Sometimes a man sees a woman who is struggling to carry something that she is physically unable to. Yet, when he offers to carry it for her, or at least help her with it, she refuses. I have heard many men remark that in such a situation, they/we don’t feel very respected. God created men and women to complete each other in areas which the other one lacks, not to function independently. When a guy feels as if he is needed by you, he also feels respected by you.

How about respecting the woman who can decide for herself if she wants to accept or decline help?

How about realizing that it's not all about you?

I've occasionally turned down offers of assistance. Sometimes, I just don't feel safe/comfortable giving my things to a strange man. Sometimes, I don't want to feel obligated to someone else. Sometimes, I know that I can handle what I'm doing, but I'm not sure of the other person's capabilities (such as when I'm installing a car seat). Sometimes, it would just be harder and slow me down. And sometimes, when I really needed help, I actually asked for it.

[debrand]

If a guy offers to carry something for you, let him. Let him open doors for you and chivalrous things of that nature. When a man wants to do such things for you, let him…to him, it’s not so much a question of if you can, but can he do it for you.

This angers me. It is not the first time that this forum has posted a statement from a fundie male that women are obligated to let men assist them.

I've been on a couple of other forums where right wing men expressed outrage that women didn't let them open the door for them or help them with packages.

Are conservative males so worried about their manhood that they can't accept that someone might not need their help? Really, it isn't my job to prop up every man's ego.

[clibbyjo]

The only time I ever needed help was when I was alone with my broken arm at the store and needed to get the 40lb bucket of cat litter in my car.I couldn;t get it out of the cart with one arm and a cast. I asked some random guy in the parking lot if he could lift it for me, he just happened to be closest to my car. Normally I would have had one of my kids with me to do it.

If any of these manly men want to come over and clean out my gutters they can have at it. DH has been putting it off and I do not crawl around on a steep roof.

[debrand]

The only time I ever needed help was when I was alone with my broken arm at the store and needed to get the 40lb bucket of cat litter in my car.I couldn;t get it out of the cart with one arm and a cast. I asked some random guy in the parking lot if he could lift it for me, he just happened to be closest to my car. Normally I would have had one of my kids with me to do it.

If any of these manly men want to come over and clean out my gutters they can have at it. DH has been putting it off and I do not crawl around on a steep roof.

I know a guy who insists on opening the car door for his wife. Yet, in other parts of their life, he seems so disrespectful of her. I'd much rather a man show real respect to me then go through the motions of empty gestures like opening a car door.

[Rhetorica]

This angers me. It is not the first time that this forum has posted a statement from a fundie male that women are obligated to let men assist them.

I've been on a couple of other forums where right wing men expressed outrage that women didn't let them open the door for them or help them with packages.

Are conservative males so worried about their manhood that they can't accept that someone might not need their help? Really, it isn't my job to prop up every man's ego.

Exactly. Which just goes to show that even the "protection" that women supposedly get out of these sexist social structures isn't really about genuinely being helpful to women, but how it will serve the purposes of the man.

[deelaem]

So if anyone is having a slow news day, you may want to check this out--a whole series of posts by a single fundie guy on stay-at-home-daughter's site about why the menfolk need respect, and how to properly respect them. stayathomedaughter.com/?p=2735

It's such a prime example of the idealism--or one-up-manship--of 20-somethings. (Having been there myself one day, regrettably.) What blows me away is just how openly self-masturbatory it is. His first courtship serves as a running example of what can go wrong in a relationship when the girl doesn't respect the guy enough. Of course no one ever gets around to writing a series for men about how to respect women because, of course, women need love, not respect. /sarcasm. Or--as in the case of the story linked in Merry Happy's recent post--they don't really deserve either.

Isn't this redundant? :lol:

[Rhetorica]

Isn't this redundant? :lol:

Yes, it is. :lol:

[SayNoToMullets]

I can't reach the top shelf at the grocery store, and they don't usually like it when I climb up like a monkey, so yes, that is one instance where I do appreciate the chivalrous gesture of someone grabbing an item for me. But sometimes that stuff backfires - I've had guys offer me a seat on the bus and remark about my "delicate condition" when I'm just wearing a loose top. Yeah. Thanks a lot.

(Of course, when I've been injured and really could use that seat, somehow the big ol' cast on my leg is invisible. And here I thought I was making a fashion statement.)

[CelticGoddess]

This angers me. It is not the first time that this forum has posted a statement from a fundie male that women are obligated to let men assist them.

I've been on a couple of other forums where right wing men expressed outrage that women didn't let them open the door for them or help them with packages.

Are conservative males so worried about their manhood that they can't accept that someone might not need their help? Really, it isn't my job to prop up every man's ego.

Many years ago, I read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker and he stated how dangerous it actually is for women to fall into the role of "helpless feminine ladies" who must let men carry their packages, open their doors, etc. Women need to be able to say NO. It's safer for us.

Unfortunately, those girls who are being taught to always except help are going to deny their God given instincts and could find themselves in a heap of trouble. I'll let my husband, brother, son carry packages for me but not a stranger. And I open my own door, thank you very much. If some ass has his ego bruised, too damn bad.

[margiebargie]

Many years ago, I read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker and he stated how dangerous it actually is for women to fall into the role of "helpless feminine ladies" who must let men carry their packages, open their doors, etc. Women need to be able to say NO. It's safer for us.

Unfortunately, those girls who are being taught to always except help are going to deny their God given instincts and could find themselves in a heap of trouble. I'll let my husband, brother, son carry packages for me but not a stranger. And I open my own door, thank you very much. If some ass has his ego bruised, too damn bad.

Great point. One of the stories in DeBecker's book was about a woman who allowed a man to help her carry groceries up the stairs to her apartment. She had a bad feeling about him, but didn't want to be rude. He assaulted her and she barely got out of the situation alive.

[Burris]

It always seems to come back to, "Well, then, who opens the door?" with these guys.

They plead that new social 'rules' are simply too difficult to fathom; that they no longer know 'how to treat a lady.' (Some of the older fundie guys will say things such as, "Well, if I were petty, then I'd not open the door for these ladies since they're so set on doing it themselves.")

It's laughable, really: Whoever is closest to the door – and I'm speaking specifically about a door to a public [EDIT] place - should open it and allow others to pass through. A less burdened person should hold the door for a more burdened one. This isn't rocket science.

The pervasive nature of this meme – that women had it better before civil rights, merely because men would condescend to open doors for them - has produced a few guys who will, in a brain-dead effort to make some sort of political statement, deliberately cut women off at an exit or let doors slam on them. I've come across what appeared to have been such a situation once. I'd imagine it's rare – even as it's rare to hear of a woman snapping at a man merely for holding the door.

[fakepigtails73]

This angers me. It is not the first time that this forum has posted a statement from a fundie male that women are obligated to let men assist them.

I've been on a couple of other forums where right wing men expressed outrage that women didn't let them open the door for them or help them with packages.

Are conservative males so worried about their manhood that they can't accept that someone might not need their help? Really, it isn't my job to prop up every man's ego.

Not to take that guy's defense (barf), but I wonder if he meant "letting ALL and ANY man" help you with yr parcels or opening the door, or if he meant "letting your boyfriend or hubby" help you with it. I find the former creepy (I turn down strangers' offers to help me with my parcels all the time (unless it's cab drivers and I tip them) but if I'm with my boyfriend he's the one who carries the heavier packages. Always. So I give the writer the benefit of the doubt on this one...

OTOH, his writing style shows the typical smuggness seen in 20-something uber-fundie males.

[debrand]

Not to take that guy's defense (barf), but I wonder if he meant "letting ALL and ANY man" help you with yr parcels or opening the door, or if he meant "letting your boyfriend or hubby" help you with it. I find the former creepy (I turn down strangers' offers to help me with my parcels all the time (unless it's cab drivers and I tip them) but if I'm with my boyfriend he's the one who carries the heavier packages. Always. So I give the writer the benefit of the doubt on this one...

OTOH, his writing style shows the typical smuggness seen in 20-something uber-fundie males.

They gave examples of times when women they didn't know wouldn't let them open the door or carry their packages. Although I am not certain why a man would feel that his masculinity was hurt because his girlfriend or wife wouldn't let him carry the heavier bags either.

[fakepigtails73]

They gave examples of times when women they didn't know wouldn't let them open the door or carry their packages.

Ok, it stinks then.

Someone upthread wrote about the book "The Gift Of Fear"; yup, I remember quite well the story in question (I think it's the opening chapter). That girl was so lucky to have gotten out of this alive.

It is so true that we women are conditionned to ignore our "little voice inside" and are so affraid to appear like "rude b?$#es" to male strangers. I'd rather that the man I don't know who just waltzed beside me at the exit of the supermarket to ask if he could help me carrying my bags think that I'm a stuck-up she-dog instead of me ending up in his car's trunk.

Love what De Becker wrote in that book: "The worst thing that men are scared of re: the opposite sex in the streets is that they could end up laughing at them, whereas women are legitimally scared that unknown members of the opposite sex in the streets could end up killing them..."

Lost ego vs lost life...

[fluttershies]

Ok, it stinks then.

Someone upthread wrote about the book "The Gift Of Fear"; yup, I remember quite well the story in question (I think it's the opening chapter). That girl was so lucky to have gotten out of this alive.

It is so true that we women are conditionned to ignore our "little voice inside" and are so affraid to appear like "rude b?$#es" to male strangers. I'd rather that the man I don't know who just waltzed beside me at the exit of the supermarket to ask if he could help me carrying my bags think that I'm a stuck-up she-dog instead of me ending up in his car's trunk.

Love what De Becker wrote in that book: "The worst thing that men are scared of re: the opposite sex in the streets is that they could end up laughing at them, whereas women are legitimally scared that unknown members of the opposite sex in the streets could end up killing them..."

Lost ego vs lost life...

I remember distinctly an incident when I was carrying some heavy bags and a man offered to give me a hand - it was growing dark and despite the fact that he was with his young daughter, I still declined his offer (politely). Guess what, he was fine with it! Seriously, most men are aware that lone women do not welcome male help/attention because of fear - hell, I know many men who won't even sit next to a lone woman on public transport so they (the women) don't feel uncomfortable. Safety is serious business for women.

[fakepigtails73]

I remember distinctly an incident when I was carrying some heavy bags and a man offered to give me a hand - it was growing dark and despite the fact that he was with his young daughter, I still declined his offer (politely). Guess what, he was fine with it! Seriously, most men are aware that lone women do not welcome male help/attention because of fear - hell, I know many men who won't even sit next to a lone woman on public transport so they (the women) don't feel uncomfortable. Safety is serious business for women.

That the guy was fine with the fact you declined his help prooved he had no malicious intent. Yup, a good guy will respect you for refusing and won't be yapping and hollering how "stuck up" women are nowadays (misogyny alert!). I had a boyfriend who couldn't see my point about me being affraid to walk home alone at midnight from the subway station... :roll:

[uncreative]

I know a guy who insists on opening the car door for his wife. Yet, in other parts of their life, he seems so disrespectful of her. I'd much rather a man show real respect to me then go through the motions of empty gestures like opening a car door.

My grandfather-in-law always opened his wife's car door for her, but didn't respect her enough to tell her when he was diagnosed with heart failure. His death was a terrible shock to her. Opening doors does NOT equal respect.