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Political discussion on Bates blog..


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Just had a looksee over at the Bates blog and found there is a lot of discussion going on about Santorum and their Political beliefs and such. Amazingly Kelly isn't just keeping sweet, shes actually making a stand and stating what she believes!

 

http://gilbatesfamily.com/2012/01/20/th ... /#comments

 

This is surprising considering in the past she has always tried to 'keep sweet' and never really let on a lot of their beliefs.

 

These are just the quotes from Kelly, to see the full overview and others responses/questions go to the site above.

 

 

Quote
By Gil, January 23, 2012 @ 12:44 am

 

Dear Elizabeth,

I’m aware that Santorum’s religious affiliation is Catholicism and I do not know if he has a personal relationship with Christ or not… I don’t know if some of the people in the pews at my own Baptist church are truly born again; I can only speak for myself…. But I do know that the stands he is willing to take politically are far more supportive of Christian values and morality than any other candidate. Hey, I wish it was George Washington we were voting on for this election, but I think Americans would even reject him according to some of the dissapointing allegiances that we are seeing in the polls! Clearly, Santorum’s stand for anti-abortion laws and pro-family values lead the pack! Love, Kelly

 

By Gil, January 23, 2012 @ 12:51 am

 

Dear Tina,

We have looked at Ron Paul and have to dissagree. Because he is unwilling to take a stand against abortion or same-sex marriages, much of his followers are from those categories as well as those supporting his desire to legalize drugs. While campaigning, my children were able to see many of these supporters illegally breaking into rallies to throw glitter bombs and yell protests against the more conservative stands of Santorum and his followers. I’ve said before, I wish George Washington were running because it would seem to make the choice easier… but clearly, Christians are not voting for moral values this election unfortunately. I believe to NOT take a stand on an issue IS really taking a stand… and that seems to be Ron Paul’s game plan. Santorum helped write the law under Clinton’s administration that helped end partial birth abortion. He continues to take the absolute strongest stand on this issue. Love, Kelly

 

 

By Gil, January 23, 2012 @ 12:56 am

 

Dear Mommyluv,

I am aware that Santorum is Catholic. I am also aware that he has the MOST conservative stand on every issue that is of concern to Christians. Ron Paul claims to have some of those personal beliefs, but publically admits he would not take a stand for any of them… Instead his whole plan is to let each state decide… without any involvement as president. In that case half of the states might legalize abortion and half may not… Whereas Santorum would address the issue from the federal level and would promote anti-abortion laws in all of the states… rather than holding up his hands and being unwilling to take a stand! love, Kelly

 

By Gil, January 23, 2012 @ 8:30 pm

 

Dear Kay,

I have to disagree… Our nation was founded on Christian principles… And I believe it is the blessing of the Lord that has kept it thriving for so long… But as we turn our backs on God and His ways and the principles this nation once stood for, we will lose that blessing! Love, Kelly

 

By Gil, January 23, 2012 @ 8:41 pm

 

Dear Anna,

The Christian principles that I am referring to – integrity, honesty, moral justice, pro-life, etc – are qualities that improve any place, and therefore, should not cause offense to anyone. It is the principles that made our nation strong. If you remove honesty, justice, quality of life, and morality, then the nation will soon fall… no matter what your beliefs are. If a man shows integrity and honesty in his private life and family life, he’s much more likely to show it in his public dealings as well…. on the contrary, if a man can’t be trusted… well, he can’t be trusted politically either in my opinion… either he has character or doesn’t. As for economics… certainly, everyone is concerned about that… most promises made in that arena are a lot of hot air and never shows any follow through because the root problems are not addressed. Santorum addresses economic issues, while trying to also look at the root problems. For instance, he gives statistics that show that if a young person pursues his goals in this order: degree, marriage, children… he is far less likely to be financially unstable. But if those are out of order, the statistics of financial need rise drastically…. so, obviously attention needs to be given to teaching youth to make wise decisions as preventive strategy. For me personally, whenever a person votes for economics over morality, they are showing exactly where their heart is! Love, Kelly

 

By Gil, January 23, 2012 @ 10:13 pm

 

Dear Chris,

I read the link you sent from Mr.Baucham. Like everything, I agree with some things, but dissagree with many others. All of the choices we’ve made are our OPINIONS. The choices Mr. Baucham has made are his OPINIONS. We’ve both had to form opinions based on imperfect people in an imperfect world. There are many respectable Christians who are making their decisions based on what they feel is the best choice from what they have to work with. I still feel that Santorum is the most conservative and most honest. I think Ron Paul has been wishy washy in his voting on pro-life issues… as well as other concerns I have about his stands. I respect Mr. Baucham’s views just like I respect Focus on the Family and the Duggar’s views for supporting Santorum. I don’t wholeheartedly agree with anyone’s opinions… Instead, I listen to what they say, do my own research, then pray… We support Santorum, but understand that this has been a difficult election for all to make a wise choice about. We will just continue to pray, do what we feel the Lord would have us do, and respect the choices others make as well. Love, Kelly

 

Dear Mommyluv,

Thank you for your gracious response. I respect anyone who is able to dissagree while still being considerate and polite. What really matters for all of us is seeking what God wants us to do. Its probably impossible to get two people in a room to agree on everything, but both should be respectful and both should have a clear conscience before God for themselves. I think your attitude is healthy and honorable! Love, Kelly

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I have to admit that I think it is great that she is responding to all these comments. And she also stays polite! I think its pretty clear that Santorum isn't their ideal candidate (that would be George Washington or Bill Gothard...).

What really surprises me is the fact that the fundies we are snarking on seem to mostly support Ron Paul. How comes that? Is it that difficult for the majority to support an ebil catholic? I don't live in the USA and must admit that I'm not 100% into the stuff that each candidate stands for.

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Yes that's something I am not clear on either, I am not in the US. But I don't understand why a lot of fundies do not treat Catholicism are a proper version of Christianity... can anyone shed some light on to the hows and why's or that?

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I wrote this on their blog:

The fact that you believe that America was founded on Christian beliefs is incorrect. Separation of Church and State. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being.

My question is, if you are 100% pro-life, then what is your position on the death penalty? If life is so sacred, do you support the death penalty?

How can you support Santorum, who believes that rape is a gift?

I wonder what Kelly's "sweet" response will be?

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I would love to know, since Santorum is Catholic, how Christian fundies who support Santorum would react, if hypothetically the Pope advocated that birth control (all forms of contraceptives) are not evil and should not be banned. Would they still support Santorum and be fine that he's Catholic? Doubt it.

I also get tired of hearing how those Christian values (integrity, honest, moral justice, etc) mentioned by Mrs. Bates appear only to be Christian. I thought those types of values are irrespective of religious affiliation. It's like these fundies really think they're the only ones who have a moral compass.

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The Christian principles that I am referring to – integrity, honesty, moral justice, pro-life, etc – are qualities that improve any place, and therefore, should not cause offense to anyone

It sounds as if she believes only Christians have these principles. Does she know that some northern European countries and Japan have less violence than we do in America?

Santorium is not for only integrity, honesty etc. He is for limiting the rights of women to make their own reproductive choices and consenting adults to decide who they want to marry. That is not showing moral justice to me.

Despite her polite expression of her views, her politics are vile.

As far as her children being shocked over seeing someone glitter bombed....They want to prevent an entire group of adults from being able to consent to a marriage with someone that they love. That is far worse of an injustice than a little sparkly stuff.

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I am Christian.

Kelly's posts (quoted above) offend me by massively assuming that she represents "Christian" political opinion. (I could bold/cap/eleventy-eleven this statement).

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What really surprises me is the fact that the fundies we are snarking on seem to mostly support Ron Paul. How comes that? Is it that difficult for the majority to support an ebil catholic? I don't live in the USA and must admit that I'm not 100% into the stuff that each candidate stands for.

Ron Paul is very big on trying to do an end-run around the constitution by strengthening "states rights". If you listen to what he says, really listen, he's pretty anti-choice and racist. I'm sure a lot of our fundies have picked up on that and realize that the masses are dumb enough to vote him in.

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It sounds as if she believes only Christians have these principles. Does she know that some northern European countries and Japan have less violence than we do in America?

Santorium is not for only integrity, honesty etc. He is for limiting the rights of women to make their own reproductive choices and consenting adults to decide who they want to marry. That is not showing moral justice to me.

Despite her polite expression of her views, her politics are vile.

As far as her children being shocked over seeing someone glitter bombed....They want to prevent an entire group of adults from being able to consent to a marriage with someone that they love. That is far worse of an injustice than a little sparkly stuff.

I read it as if every christian defends those values. Which is totally wrong (of course she might limit the definition of who is a christian truely saved or not) Just because you say you're christian does not give you a free pass for all those "qualities", coming from people who keep talking about sin and their imperfection... hu!

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I am Christian.

Kelly's posts (quoted above) offend me by massively assuming that she represents "Christian" political opinion. (I could bold/cap/eleventy-eleven this statement).

I understand why you are offended. I'm not Christian, but I know some Christians who would feel the same way you do if read what Kelly has written. There are always going to be people in society who think they represent all people in a certain group. I'm Hispanic and I get offended with a lot of people who think they represent all Hispanics.

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Yes that's something I am not clear on either, I am not in the US. But I don't understand why a lot of fundies do not treat Catholicism are a proper version of Christianity... can anyone shed some light on to the hows and why's or that?

I have heard of different excuses of why they don't treat or view Catholicism as a proper version of Christianity. Some exceuses include infant baptisim, the way the Catholic Church views the Bible, how clergy is and various other things. Here in the US, it isn't only fundies who see or view Catholicism as Christianity. In college, I took a class with a young liberal woman who really believed that Catholics weren't Christians and she got embarrassed once in class when the instructor told that Catholics are Christians.

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I like this one - "he has the MOST conservative stand on every issue that is of concern to Christians. "

Because no Christians care about worker safety, alleviating child poverty, or quality public education. ALL Christians only care about gay marriage and abortion (and all are against both, natch - all those Christians who support gay marriage or reproductive choice are Not Real Christians.)

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It sounds as if she believes only Christians have these principles. Does she know that some northern European countries and Japan have less violence than we do in America?

Santorium is not for only integrity, honesty etc. He is for limiting the rights of women to make their own reproductive choices and consenting adults to decide who they want to marry. That is not showing moral justice to me.

Despite her polite expression of her views, her politics are vile.

As far as her children being shocked over seeing someone glitter bombed....They want to prevent an entire group of adults from being able to consent to a marriage with someone that they love. That is far worse of an injustice than a little sparkly stuff.

Also, which culture or world religion supports hypocrisy, dishonesty, immoral justice? I can't think of any.

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Yes that's something I am not clear on either, I am not in the US. But I don't understand why a lot of fundies do not treat Catholicism are a proper version of Christianity... can anyone shed some light on to the hows and why's or that?

It's because they're a bunch of cannibalistic vampires that worship Mary. According to Candy, anyway.

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I like this one - "he has the MOST conservative stand on every issue that is of concern to Christians. "

Because no Christians care about worker safety, alleviating child poverty, or quality public education. ALL Christians only care about gay marriage and abortion (and all are against both, natch - all those Christians who support gay marriage or reproductive choice are Not Real Christians.)

This nearly single issue politicking is baffling to me. They seem to react so crazily to the 2 issues that are least likely to affect their lives. Surely health care, the economy, poverty (!) should concern them more. And yet they don't even seem to want to hear about them and, in fact, seem to be dead set against any politician who might do something that would be in their own best interests. Odd head space.

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I find it rather infuriating that with all of the big issues facing the USA right now, any candidate will even respond or comment on issues such as abortion and gay marriage. With the coutnry 15+trillion in debt and unemployement @ 9+% WHO CARES!!! People like the Bates and Duggars who support a candidate based on abortion stance should not be allowed to vote... ok a little extreme as everyone has a right ot vote, but really? Is ending abortion going to reduce or debt or create jobs? It makes me sick how people ignore that thing, ya know the constitution, and try to change history to make it sound like George Washington hated abortion... Wasn't he sterile? I am pretty sure he never worried about abortion...Just saying.

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What I find interesting is that all of the politicing (sp?) is really getting the Duggars and the Bates to express their true colors. I find Josh's instagram account to be quite reflective of how he really thinks (and not in a good way). As for the Bates, while I do think Mrs. Bates is responding as politely as she can to some hard questions.....it just further exposes how unaccepting of others they really are.

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Our nation was founded on Christian principles…

Oh really? Although the Declaration of Independence mentioned “Nature’s God†and the “Creator,†the Constitution made no reference to a divine being, Christian or otherwise, and the First Amendment explicitly forbid the establishment of any official church or creed. There is also a story, probably apocryphal, that Benjamin Franklin’s proposal to call in a chaplain to offer a prayer when a particularly controversial issue was being debated in the Constitutional Convention prompted Hamilton to observe that he saw no reason to call in foreign aid. If there is a clear legacy bequeathed by the founders, it is the insistence that religion was a private matter in which the state should not interfere.

The Christian principles that I am referring to – integrity, honesty, moral justice, pro-life, etc – are qualities that improve any place, and therefore, should not cause offense to anyone. It is the principles that made our nation strong.

The anti-choice movement offends me greatly. My religious belief (from a religion that existed long before Christianity) is that a fetus does not gain its human soul until the greater part of its body is delivered [alive]. I don't think that abortion is to be taken lightly, because life is sacred, but I also believe that abortions should be permitted, and in certain circumstances, even encouraged.

To sum things up Gil & Kelly, some of your Christian principles do offend me. And you should quickly jump off your soapbox and re-read some American History. Even my 9-year-old knows that America was not founded (exclusively) on Christian principles.

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I find it rather infuriating that with all of the big issues facing the USA right now, any candidate will even respond or comment on issues such as abortion and gay marriage. With the coutnry 15+trillion in debt and unemployement @ 9+% WHO CARES!!! People like the Bates and Duggars who support a candidate based on abortion stance should not be allowed to vote... ok a little extreme as everyone has a right ot vote, but really? Is ending abortion going to reduce or debt or create jobs? It makes me sick how people ignore that thing, ya know the constitution, and try to change history to make it sound like George Washington hated abortion... Wasn't he sterile? I am pretty sure he never worried about abortion...Just saying.[/quote]

This. I agree with you. It irrkes me that the Bateses and Duggars really think ending or reducing abortion is going to make the country better it won't. The issues that need to be dealt with are the economy and debt like you mentioned. The Bateses and Duggars to certain degree are out of touch with those issues. Josh Duggar has never worked outside of the Duggar family. He has never had to actually find a job. Boob has always been self-employed and probably has no concept of struggling to find work. Maybe Gil has a better idea of the struggles some people go through with unemployment.

I know several pro-lifers that don't care if a politician is a pro-choice. They focus more on a politician's stances on education, economy, certain laws that don't involve abortion or gay marriage. Kelly's posts on politics is pretty dull in a way, because abortion will never abolished or reduced.

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I like this one - "he has the MOST conservative stand on every issue that is of concern to Christians. "

Actually, Kelly, if he is proposing the federal government deal with those issues, he is the exact opposite of a true conservative -- no governmental interference, remember? Wait, that's just on other issues, like religionizing the school environment. Or how many kids you're allowed to pack in an 800 square foot house. The important stuff.

Ugh, this drives me crazy about American politics right now, and I've got 9 more months of it. My poor high schooler, who is studying World History, talked with us for two hours trying to understand the definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" in the US vs the world. Even Wikipedia has to put "American" qualifiers on everything.

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These people are single issue voters and without contact with the real world they will define politics and political platforms to fit within their narrow world view. They have no grasp about what working folks have to deal with on a daily basis. Nor will they ever concede that all politics are local.

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Dear Tina,

We have looked at Ron Paul and have to dissagree. Because he is unwilling to take a stand against abortion or same-sex marriages, much of his followers are from those categories as well as those supporting his desire to legalize drugs. While campaigning, my children were able to see many of these supporters illegally breaking into rallies to throw glitter bombs and yell protests against the more conservative stands of Santorum and his followers.

Were Ron Paul supporters really breaking in and glitter bombing???

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Kelly is dim.

Edited to add: If she were permitted to read newspapers she would know Occupy admitted to all of Frothys glitter bombings. Hell they were shouting it on the videos.

riffle

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