Liar, liar, pants on fire? Atheist Conversion

[emmiedahl]

I was flipping through the channels early yesterday morning to keep myself awake while I studied. Of course, there was nothing on so I ended up on one of the Christian channels. The host was interviewing a man who is a former lifelong atheist. The former lifelong atheist said that he had always been taught that there is no historic evidence for Jesus as a deity, so his mind was changed when he found places in the book of Mark where Jesus referred to himself as The Son of Man, which was an OT term for the Messiah.

 

Mmmkay. I have a few questions. First, would an atheist consider the NT a historic source of unbiased information about Jesus? I am a Jew and I certainly would not. Second, would a lifelong atheist know enough about the OT to see the reference to Son of Man and associate it with a Messianic prophecy in the OT? Last, even if we take the NT at face value, why would Jesus *claiming* to be a Messiah mean that he *is* one? And why would that make him a God? If the man was that familiar with the OT, he knows that Jesus did not fulfill prophecies and that the Messiah is not a God anyway.

 

It was perplexing. So my question is: Do Christians pretend to be former atheists just to get street credit?

[Witsec7]

...

It was perplexing. So my question is: Do Christians pretend to be former atheists just to get street credit?

Yes, I feel they do. I see it on some of the IFB forums and it happens frequently.

[emmiedahl]

Lying must be a competitive sport. Do the people on IFB forums admit that they are lying about it or do they keep up the act even among each other?

Even funnier is the assumption that an atheist was just sitting around reading the Bible when he stumbled on the Truth. I am sure atheists incorporate Bible study into their daily routines. :roll:

[pixydust]

Growing up fundie, I heard tons of "testimonies" that just didn't seem real. It seemed like they all smacked of "I was a sinner then someone told me that Jesus dies for me and *WHAMMY* I believed!" It's bull shit. I guess no one ever grows up in church and just *stays*.

[Guest Anonymous]

Lying must be a competitive sport. Do the people on IFB forums admit that they are lying about it or do they keep up the act even among each other?

Even funnier is the assumption that an atheist was just sitting around reading the Bible when he stumbled on the Truth. I am sure atheists incorporate Bible study into their daily routines. :roll:

Fundiedom is absolutely rife with tales of atheists who "read the Bible to disprove it" and ended up converting to Christianity. Has that happened? Probably. But no one talks about the Christians who read the Bible and studied themselves right out of believing it, and I'm inclined to think they outnumber the former atheists.

I've heard an awful lot of testimonies from supposed ex-Wiccans, ex-Pagans, and ex-Witches that I'm pretty damn sure made up their stories of devils and possession and satan worship wholesale, too. Yay, lying for the Lord!

[Witsec7]

Lying must be a competitive sport. Do the people on IFB forums admit that they are lying about it or do they keep up the act even among each other?

Even funnier is the assumption that an atheist was just sitting around reading the Bible when he stumbled on the Truth. I am sure atheists incorporate Bible study into their daily routines. :roll:

Nah these are hard core IFBs they are the only ones who tell the truth. If you are an atheist you are automatically labeled a liar. :lol: Of course they spew fire and brimstone in helps of converting you, which I find totally humorous. None know the old axiom that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And if you were like me, a working mother and then a single mother your child is automatically a drug addicted whore. Naturally their children have prayed away deh gay, and overcome their own addictions to hillbillyheroin by being baptized.

[bananacat]

Christine O'Donnell went even farther. She claimed that she had "dabbled" in witchcraft, and had even witnessed a human sacrifice of an infant. So yeah, they'll lie about anything to make their position seem more credible. It's not really a big deal to just be Christian because that's what your parents were, but it sounds more convincing if Christianity is just so awesome that it made you change your evil, murderous ways.

[gustava]

As an unbeliever myself, I would not consider the NT an unbiased source. However, I do know enough about both the OT and NT, and do enough reading of reputable sources (Bart Erhman, Elaine Pagels, Jack Miles) that I could make the connection. However, I'm pretty ignorant about fundies and street-cred, fortunately.

[bananacat]

Also remember that the fundie definition of "atheist" is pretty broad. It's quite possible that this guy was a lifelong Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, etc. and then became a RTC (Real, True Christian). And he believes that only his denomination is right about Jesus, so any other type of Christian is really just an atheist and not a true believer. Or, maybe he was a lifelong fundie but had a few doubts as a teenager and believes that that qualified him as an atheist. So that would explain both his Bible reading and why it was so easy for him to convert.

I've read large parts of the Bible as an atheist, not to "disprove it", but just out of interest in a work that has been influential in forming our history. After seeing women literally listed alongside cattle and other livestock as the spoils of war, I'll never be part of that religion.

[NurseNell]

I was flipping through the channels early yesterday morning to keep myself awake while I studied. Of course, there was nothing on so I ended up on one of the Christian channels. The host was interviewing a man who is a former lifelong atheist. The former lifelong atheist said that he had always been taught that there is no historic evidence for Jesus as a deity, so his mind was changed when he found places in the book of Mark where Jesus referred to himself as The Son of Man, which was an OT term for the Messiah.

Mmmkay. I have a few questions. First, would an atheist consider the NT a historic source of unbiased information about Jesus? I am a Jew and I certainly would not. Second, would a lifelong atheist know enough about the OT to see the reference to Son of Man and associate it with a Messianic prophecy in the OT? Last, even if we take the NT at face value, why would Jesus *claiming* to be a Messiah mean that he *is* one? And why would that make him a God? If the man was that familiar with the OT, he knows that Jesus did not fulfill prophecies and that the Messiah is not a God anyway.

It was perplexing. So my question is: Do Christians pretend to be former atheists just to get street credit?

I've known more than a few atheists who knew the OT and NT better than many Christians. The Waldorf schools have students read the Old Testament, and I think the New too. They consider the Bible to be a book that all well educated people should read. Maybe someone here has had a Waldorf education. This was told to me by a h.s. classmate who taught at the Waldorf School in Garden City, NY. I think the Nova Classical Academies also read the Bible as part of their literature requirements.

I have never read the whole Bible, like many Pre Vatican II Catholics. Though we get the whole NT over our 3 year liturgical schedule of readings, and most of the Old.

I know one atheist who converted to Catholicism, then became a priest. He doesn't make a big deal of it. It's usually the other way, Catholics or other Christians converting to atheism.

[O Latin]

Of course there is no historical evidence for Jesus as a deity. No deity can be proven or disproven by historical evidence (and for the record, I am a Christian and I wouldn't consider the modern day published NT an unbiased source. The original documents, if they exist, maybe.). Maybe he meant he'd been taught that there was no historical evidence Jesus existed? Some atheists (and probably other non-Christians as well) believe that.

I think there are all these "I was a sinner and then I welcomed Jesus into my heart and everything was perfect" testimonies because they make better stories. "I grew up in the church and, uh, yeah, I'm still here," isn't very interesting. So I don't know if people like this former atheist are blatantly lying, necessarily. I think they might be embellishing the truth a bit.

[apple1]

Christine O'Donnell went even farther. She claimed that she had "dabbled" in witchcraft, and had even witnessed a human sacrifice of an infant. So yeah, they'll lie about anything to make their position seem more credible.

It's not an excuse, but some of this kind of stuff sounds kind of like "recovered memories" that actually were created by the power of suggestion, not by actual experience.

[Beb]

It's not an excuse, but some of this kind of stuff sounds kind of like "recovered memories" that actually were created by the power of suggestion, not by actual experience.

Ok....now, if the bitch witnessed human sacrifice of an infant, she has witnessed a crime. Shouldn't she be interrogated for something like that?

[Nomorearrows]

I think there are all these "I was a sinner and then I welcomed Jesus into my heart and everything was perfect" testimonies because they make better stories. "I grew up in the church and, uh, yeah, I'm still here," isn't very interesting.

I agree O Latin. Many people just lie to make their lives seem more interesting. One example - It was on AC360 a long time ago- is a ex-Muslim Palestinian terrorist turned anti-Muslim writer. He was pretty shady character and he was making so much money off of his "autobiography" (in which he wrote about spending time in Israeli jail) though it turned out Israel didn't even have any records of him in any jail or there ever being a bombing which would result in him going to jail. Then he wrote about how he became Christian. He was exposed as a liar and he was making LOTS of money. IIRC his first name is Walid. I'm sure to him, being an ex-terrorist then becoming Christian was a more exciting story than him being born Christian. It was his "call to fame".

[CanadianHippie]

This thread reminds me of the magazine salesman in "Office Space". You know, the one who claimed to be a former drug dealer and crackhead because it made people more likely to buy subscriptions?

[mirele]

I agree O Latin. Many people just lie to make their lives seem more interesting. One example - It was on AC360 a long time ago- is a ex-Muslim Palestinian terrorist turned anti-Muslim writer. He was pretty shady character and he was making so much money off of his "autobiography" (in which he wrote about spending time in Israeli jail) though it turned out Israel didn't even have any records of him in any jail or there ever being a bombing which would result in him going to jail. Then he wrote about how he became Christian. He was exposed as a liar and he was making LOTS of money. IIRC his first name is Walid. I'm sure to him, being an ex-terrorist then becoming Christian was a more exciting story than him being born Christian. It was his "call to fame".

Walid Shoebat. He used to follow me on Twitter, back in the days when I used to tweet articles about a certain space alien cult.

[godlytomatosoup]

Fundiedom is absolutely rife with tales of atheists who "read the Bible to disprove it" and ended up converting to Christianity. Has that happened? Probably. But no one talks about the Christians who read the Bible and studied themselves right out of believing it, and I'm inclined to think they outnumber the former atheists.

I read the Bible right through, as a non-Christian, and my response was complicated. It made me more clear that I'm either a panentheist or a pantheist, and that I find it helpful to think about love, personified. And it also made me clear that I'm not going to find that in most of the Bible (there are glimpses here and there, but that's all.) I decided I might as well try a Christian church as a source for a community of people allied with love, but I'm not a 'bible-based Christian', whatever that is (right now I'm not actually a Christian, just inching closer.)

It is an amazing document, a wonderful compilation of literary works. It has beautiful poetry, occasional slapstick humour, and even bears. I'm glad I read it, to the extend that a few months after I finished, I started again from the beginning (I did the Bible in 90 Days, which is run by a guy who claims to have had exactly that sort of Bible-triggered conversion experience.) But as a 'blueprint for your life' or a literal history dictated from an omniscient viewpoint, it sucks. I'm sorry, but it's horrible. Nightmare fuel. Worse in the Tanakh, but quite awful in the New Testament too.

You have to read against the text really hard not to read God as a bully, and there's a lot of people out there who seem to like him that way. The number one thing that's stopping me from actually saying "Okay, I want to be a Christian" is God as he is portrayed in 'His Word'.

[ladypuglover]

So my question is: Do Christians pretend to be former atheists just to get street credit?

I have only met a tiny amount of people who claimed to be atheists before becoming Christians or other religious belief. Then again, I don't hang out on religious chat boards.

Even funnier is the assumption that an atheist was just sitting around reading the Bible when he stumbled on the Truth. I am sure atheists incorporate Bible study into their daily routines.

I have met more than a few atheists, including my father, who did that very thing. Not to disprove it but more of a know thy enemy thing.

I've known more than a few atheists who knew the OT and NT better than many Christians.

My late father was like that, could quote the entire bible frontwards and backwards and out quote any Christian I knew. even though he knew his bible, he didn't believe it. Which really was odd with his encouraging us girls to find faith in the Lord. He wanted us kids to have faith that he couldn't find but not to follow it blindly. Somedays our arguements in our house sounded like a Baptist Revival with all the Bible quotes flung around in the heat of anger. :whistle:

[Brainsample]

It was perplexing. So my question is: Do Christians pretend to be former atheists just to get street credit?

Botkin claims to be a former Marxist, and several family members and friends wrote to me to insist that this was a lie. One of them went nuts on me for defaming their family because they thought that I made the claim. It was Geoffry who did, not me.

[Sola]

I was flipping through the channels early yesterday morning to keep myself awake while I studied. Of course, there was nothing on so I ended up on one of the Christian channels. The host was interviewing a man who is a former lifelong atheist. The former lifelong atheist said that he had always been taught that there is no historic evidence for Jesus as a deity, so his mind was changed when he found places in the book of Mark where Jesus referred to himself as The Son of Man, which was an OT term for the Messiah.

Mmmkay. I have a few questions. First, would an atheist consider the NT a historic source of unbiased information about Jesus? I am a Jew and I certainly would not. Second, would a lifelong atheist know enough about the OT to see the reference to Son of Man and associate it with a Messianic prophecy in the OT? Last, even if we take the NT at face value, why would Jesus *claiming* to be a Messiah mean that he *is* one? And why would that make him a God? If the man was that familiar with the OT, he knows that Jesus did not fulfill prophecies and that the Messiah is not a God anyway.

It was perplexing. So my question is: Do Christians pretend to be former atheists just to get street credit?

I guess it would be what you consider to be a life long atheist. I was raised Christian, but once I got into my teens and began to think critically, that's when I became an atheist. Some people would consider me to be a life long atheist as when I was a child I didn't have the ability to critically think and make the decision to be a Christian.

As for your question; yes I think some dishonest Christians do, particularly the evangelical type. That type seem the most desperate to prove that Christianity is correct that some of them will go to any length to convince others, even lying.

I am sure atheists incorporate Bible study into their daily routines

I wouldn't say it is a daily routine, but this atheist here reads the bible several times a week. I also read the qur'an too though. But that is more to do with my obsession interest with comparative religion/religious history.

[CanadianHippie]

Not an atheist (agnostic), and it's not daily, but I have been known to study the bible (as well as other religious texts). I personally find religion fascinating even if I don't believe or not believe. I've even been known to quote the Bible to people when the situation warrants it.

[Patsy]

Anyone seen "Hellhouse"? The guy who was in charge in one part of the house claimed to have been big into various scenes, and went around explaining what this tag meant and that symbol meant. He obviously had no idea, had been a loser tag-along on the scene, and was now a loser tag-along at the church but one who could get a little bit of respect by talking up how horrible and immoral his previous life had been, and how big he'd been in that immorality.

This thread's also relevant: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4997

[JesusFightClub]

Botkin claims to be a former Marxist, and several family members and friends wrote to me to insist that this was a lie. One of them went nuts on me for defaming their family because they thought that I made the claim. It was Geoffry who did, not me.

As a present Marxist, I saw that claim and would love to take him on on it. What tendency? What side of the aisle? What party? What faction? What were your views on....;)

Being a Marxist is srs business. You don't just say you are one. You have to study, read and think. If Geoff was pulling things from Wiki, I would know.

It must be the equivalent for an older subset of fundies of saying "I used to be a Satanist". Like the Satanic Panic guys who say they held every high office in Satanism and sacrificed babies and all that bollocks. These guys make what looks (to different cultures) like a dramatic life story when really it is made up out of whole cloth.

[debrand]

Behold, I am sending you like sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and simple as doves.

But beware of people, for they will hand you over to courts and scourge you in their synagogues,

and you will be led before governors and kings for my sake as a witness before them and the pagans.

When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say. You will be given at that moment what you are to say.

For it will not be you who speak but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."

Matthew 10: 16-20.

I've actually heard someone misquote the verse about snakes as proof that nonbelievers can be tricked into going to church. However, I don't think that most Christians would claim that the verse gives them justification to lie to other people.

Kirk Cameron makes a big deal about being a former atheist. The problem with his claim is that he disbelieved for only a short time during his adolescence when many people start looking for the meaning of life. i don't think that exagerrating to win converts is uncommon with some evangelicals.

[debrand]

My neighbors often tell me a story that a special forces member gave to their church. I've always sort of doubted the story but, I admit, I might be wrong. Apparently, this guy was having doubts about all the violent things that he had to do as a soldier. He couldn't make some of his actions line up with his faith and yet, he needed to do certain things to succeed. Anyway, he prayed and prayed for faith.

One day he went on a mission and saved some hostages from the Iraqis. When he saved one of the people, he said, "We love you and God does too." At that moment, he knew why he was supposed to be in the special forces.

I have no idea if the man is really special forces. To be honest, I've never really met him but I've heard his story so many times from my nieghbors that I can quote it word for word.

My neighbors can't answer why the man was allowed by the military to tell that story but couldn't give names. That stikes me as odd. Why tell the story at all? It is the type of story no one can verify and that makes me suspicious. I am always suspicious of people who claim their work is secretive because if it is secretive why are you telling me it is secretive? Just shut up and don't say anything.

This great Christian also told his wife of many years to get out of his house because he was divorcing her.