Hana Williams' murder and the Pearls on Anderson Cooper 360

[gustava]

This is bull shit. A form?! Are you kidding me? I can sign something that I have no intention of honoring. I can write anything I please in a placement report. I could also scare some children into acting right for a home visit. I could lie about how I plan to discipline.

I think you're right, the abuse ramped up after the 12-month mark. It's like they waited until they knew the adoption agency was out of their hair.

This is bull shit. A form?! Are you kidding me? I can sign something that I have no intention of honoring. I can write anything I please in a placement report. I could also scare some children into acting right for a home visit. I could lie about how I plan to discipline.

I think you're right, the abuse ramped up after the 12-month mark. It's like they waited until they knew the adoption agency was out of their hair.

Agreed on the bullshit CYA.

[hoipolloi]

I'm not that impressed either by AAI's newfound concerns & so-called "pro-active" measures. It would probably be more effective if the Ethiopian Ministry of Women's & Children's Affairs just instituted policies prohibiting the adoption of any Ethiopian children into homes where corporal punishment of children is practiced.

For example, one of CJ Mahaney's daughters is in the process of adopting two Ethiopian children (girltalkhome.com/blog/category/adoption/) ages 6 & 2. Their adoption agency is American World Adoption (awaa.org/default.aspx), which appears to be a Christian organization. Although they don't require both parents to be Christian, at least one must subscribe to their statement of faith: awaa.org/whoweare/missionstatement.aspx. The statement raises the issue of corporal punishment but is very wishy-washy on what adopting parents may or may not do:

First we read this under Training and Discipline:

Staff, volunteers, and other individuals associated with America World in a professional capacity are expressly prohibited from using corporal punishment or restrictive behavior management techniques on any child under the care, custody, or supervision of America World. At America World, we understand that the subject of discipline is one of the most difficult issues that parents face. What is appropriate? How can I discipline my child and still reassure them of my unconditional love? What will other people think? These questions are difficult for parents of biological children to wrestle with, and are even more difficult for adoptive parents. At America World, we espouse what we believe to be a biblically-based approach to the subject.

Then we read this after a brief cautionary statement about the potentially fragile emotional/mental state of many adopted children:

"While we support the right of parents to determine the most appropriate discipline style for their family, including corporal punishment in appropriate circumstances, we believe that children should be disciplined in a consistent and loving manner that is appropriate for the child’s age, background, and conduct."

Meanwhile, SGM (the church of the Mahaneys & their children) promotes use of the "rod" for disciplining children, as seen in this blog post by the would-be adoptive mother (girltalkhome.com/blog/parenting-little-ones) and in this outline of the cited parenting talk by her brother-in-law (covlife.org/resources/3806310-Training_Discipline_and_the_Rod).

The outline that accompanies the brother-in-law's talk contains this advice:

H. What to use

1. Sturdy, but flexible instrument

2. Able to cause discomfort without harm or injury

3. Prevents associating hands with correction/ punishment

One wonders what the adoption agency will say or do, if anything, about this?

[starfish]

This is slightly OT but Voddie Baucham has griped b/c the state of Texas refuses to allow him to adopt children that are in state custody b/c of his beliefs on corporal punishment. I'm sure he shows them the Pearls book and they are appalled. He has to do private adoptions due to the "persecution" for his beliefs. Voddie and co., there's a reason why the state won't let you adopt and it's a good one....

[starfish]

has anyone come out and supported the Williams' and acted all indigent on their behalf?

From what I've read, they were loners who had no friends....

[raineymott]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/201 ... lliams.cnn

[Buzzard]

It seems A/C is continuing the investigation tonight

[BravaAmica]

has anyone come out and supported the Williams' and acted all indigent on their behalf?

From what I've read, they were loners who had no friends....

From what I understand, their church is quietly supporting them. I do not know if it's monetairly or what, but they are standing by the Williams'. There were also some people on blogs who supported them and hoped they got their kids back.

[Brainsample]

Someone needs to file a wrongful death suit against Pearls for these deaths. Then some mother or children of some dead battered woman needs to file a wrongful death suit against Paige Patterson for advising women to submit to domestic violence, too. Then maybe this stuff will stop. There will be a lot of resistance because people will see all of this as righteous persecution which will polarize some all the more, but someone needs to do it and get it established in the public record more formally.

[Koala]

From what I understand, their church is quietly supporting them. I do not know if it's monetairly or what, but they are standing by the Williams'. There were also some people on blogs who supported them and hoped they got their kids back.

Then they should all be thrown in jail with them. I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no tolerance for people like that. Put every last fucking one of them in prison and keep them the hell away from innocent children. It's scares the shit out of me to think there are people like that roaming freely amongst the rest of us.

[Koala]

Someone needs to file a wrongful death suit against Pearls for these deaths. Then some mother or children of some dead battered woman needs to file a wrongful death suit against Paige Patterson for advising women to submit to domestic violence, too. Then maybe this stuff will stop. There will be a lot of resistance because people will see all of this as righteous persecution which will polarize some all the more, but someone needs to do it and get it established in the public record more formally.

I agree. I really wish there was a way to bring criminal charges against them. This will not stop until Michael and Debi Pearl are in prison where they belong.

[Lillybee]

I wish that AC would bring up the spanking the kids until the submit.

[MonkeyMomma]

So I just looked at AAWA's Ethiopia adoption page, and I'm just going to come out and ask it ... how do these families afford one, let alone multiple, adoptions from Ethiopia?! Over $25,000! How? How can they possibly go through all the money, time, and effort to bring an Ethiopian child to the US just to torture and kill her?! Unless they are f'ed up sadists or something ... which seems likely, at this point.

But seriously, who is funding these adoptions? What measure of responsibility do they bear?

[emmiedahl]

I have the same question as Monkey Momma. How do these fundie exotic child collectors get these children? dh and I looked into foreign adoption in the past. Even when we were doing great the cost was prohibitive, and many countries won't accept parents with more than a specified number of children, which we exceed.

A little Ethiopian girl in my house would be treated like a princess. I am a little jealous of microbraids, and that gorgeous skin. I wish I could go back in time and kidnap this kid, ply her with home manicures and let her show me how to make good injera. Oh, and let her sleep in a fucking bed. :roll: I can't stop being appalled by the way this girl was treated.

[oscar]

has anyone come out and supported the Williams' and acted all indigent on their behalf?

From what I've read, they were loners who had no friends....

Renee at Bakers Dozen was acquainted with Carri Williams. Evidently, they had friends in common and interacted as part of the community of large, homeschooling families.

bakersdozen.typepad.com/a_bakerss_dozen_daily_lif/2011/10/the-not-quite-top-blogger.html

In her blog post, Renee expresses concern that this case will reflect poorly on large, homeschooling families who choose to adopt. It is possible that other people in their social circle do not want to draw additional attention to their own homes for fear of some sort of backlash. Also, I think people who interacted with the Williams are being quiet now, because they would otherwise invite criticism for their own failure to help Hana, her brother and the other Williams children.

I don't believe the Williams were as utterly isolated as some accounts seem to suggest.

[doggie]

I have the same question as Monkey Momma. How do these fundie exotic child collectors get these children? dh and I looked into foreign adoption in the past. Even when we were doing great the cost was prohibitive, and many countries won't accept parents with more than a specified number of children, which we exceed.

A little Ethiopian girl in my house would be treated like a princess. I am a little jealous of microbraids, and that gorgeous skin. I wish I could go back in time and kidnap this kid, ply her with home manicures and let her show me how to make good injera. Oh, and let her sleep in a fucking bed. :roll: I can't stop being appalled by the way this girl was treated.

I think the church helps out. Since they are doing it to bring glory to god and not give a needy child a loving home the church helps them pay.

[hoipolloi]

I don't believe the Williams were as utterly isolated as some accounts seem to suggest.

The prosecution's affadavit describes Carri's repeated complaining about Hana to her knitting club over the course of at least months, if not a year or longer. While obviously no one knew about the horror show that was the Williams household, they certainly knew there were problems.

[FuManchu]

This is slightly OT but Voddie Baucham has griped b/c the state of Texas refuses to allow him to adopt children that are in state custody b/c of his beliefs on corporal punishment. I'm sure he shows them the Pearls book and they are appalled. He has to do private adoptions due to the "persecution" for his beliefs. Voddie and co., there's a reason why the state won't let you adopt and it's a good one....

Very true! I remember an article of his when he tiptoed around the subject of family worship and how compulsory it should be - he cloaked everything in ambiguous language to cover himself but it was pretty clear he was saying that children should be beaten if they refuse to join in family worship. "Nothing you can do to them is worse than what God will if they die unsaved" was presumably his rationale for physically-enforced devotion.

[Koala]

you can add Voddie Baucham to the list of people who scare the shit out of me. On top of that, their family's is one of the weirdest situations I have ever seen.

Mom isn't able to care for children, so Dad is adopting them for his DAUGHTER to raise? That makes my WTF radar go crazy...

[starfish]

Regarding the friends' speaking out, I'm guessing the lawyers on both sides

have told them to shut up. Usually those folks are so blabby...