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Josh and Anna 57: Singing the I'm Stuck in the SHU Blues


Coconut Flan

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6 hours ago, Bastet said:

  Socialization and following directions, listening in a group are great! This is all fine as far as it goes, but what seems to have disappeared from preschool are more open ended discovery activities like a water table, sand table, dress up corner, and various kinds of blocks— a recognition that play is the real work of children. 

Oh yes, we had all of the above, too. We called them “centers”. These kinds of things were set up in different areas of the room and the kids rotated to different centers at different times. We’d have X amount of centers for a month or so, then swap them out with new ones. Sure, we had structured art where everyone made a bunny for Easter or snowman in the winter but plenty of time was allotted for open-ended activities such as you mentioned and a few others I can think of: grocery store, doll play, puzzles, watercolor painting, etc. The teachers I worked with were naturals at executing the concept that play is the real work of children. 

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   In response to @Cam: That’s wonderful! I practice taught in a similar classroom many years ago. You have no idea how many preschools and kindergarten now have the kids sitting miserably at little tables doing pencil and paper tasks for a good part of the day. A kid who can’t sit? Keep them home another year, likely in an environment which is not appropriately stimulating like the one in the class you describe. They may veg for a year and perhaps still not be able to sit for long periods. . . 

Edited by Bastet
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15 minutes a day of paper and pencil or crayon on any kind of work sheet should be the maximum for a three year old.  They don't need any worksheets at that age, but if they must keep it to a minimum.  

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My kids went to a play based preschool. This was only a few years ago so I’m sure very little has changed. They had a sensory bin that was filled with different stuff each week. Sometime it was rice and hidden treasures, sometimes it was sand, I think dry beans was one time. It was always different. They did a lot of water play outside when it was warm. They “painted” with water and paint brushes on the playground at recess. There was always play-doh available. They loved preschool. They still talk about missing it. Which is cute. 

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On 3/21/2023 at 1:44 PM, Satan'sFortress said:

From @Expectopatronus last thread:

My mama heart breaks too. ❤️ Poor lamb. But I hope no one believes your daughter isn't smart enough for Pre-K.  They might have felt that she just wasn't ready quite yet based on criteria that have nothing to do with "smart."  September is so far away--I wonder if they'd consider doing a re-evaluation? Maybe you'll find some school-like activities she could do that will help make her feel like she's growing into big girl territory. 

You might have her screened at the public school pre-K. My granddaughter got in because her speech was hard to understand and was able to continue attending after discharge from speech therapy for a nominal fee.

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On 3/21/2023 at 10:54 PM, Expectopatronus said:

Nope. They interviewed her and asked if she could accurately print all of her letters (she can’t), quizzed her on shapes and colours (she made two errors), asked about the ages of peers she plays with, extracurricular activities and separation anxiety. Um, my kid has a diagnosis of anxiety so yes, she cries in new environments. They won’t re-screen her. So we are out the $100 application fee. I can’t afford Montessori preschool and if I send her out of division to pre-k, it’s half time and $530/month. Daycare is about $500/month and I can’t afford $1000 every month in total. 

There is so much space for growth between February and September, and not every kid advances at the same pace. Like sometimes there are huge leaps. So this really upsets me. I didn't speak until I was three, then I spoke all at once like a much older person, for one example. (I would have been a terrible fit for pre-K, I just don't know how they would have been sure of it at the time.) But also I didn't know anyone was expected to print letters before school; what's school for? 

The things Cam listed were what I remember from kindergarten, back in 1970-71. Before that, it seems like it ought to be just learning to be part of a group, exploring senses, activities such as Bastet mentioned.  

I homeschooled my kids, four from the start, two after a few years in school. I'm not against school, I just want it to be really great for everybody as much as it can be. No one should have to walk in, all tiny and vulnerable, worried about being a success. 

 

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Thanks for the words of encouragement! My daughter and I spent tonight playing with play doh, practicing a few letter sounds, singing and just read five books and said bedtime prayers. Her speech is hard to understand but we are working with a SLP and she is progressing. I try to remind myself that she is empathetic, musical, extremely strong willed, and loving. If she really was as dumb as soup, she wouldn’t be attuned to other’s’ feelings and trying to help, she wouldn’t be caring for her dolls, and she probably wouldn’t be sorting things and grouping by colour. Even without pre-k she can start kindergarten in 2024 and won’t even remember this. There is nothing better than three year-old arms wrapped around my neck and her little voice saying “Wuv you mommy”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, viii said:

I live in Canada, so I think we do pre-school differently here from the US (and likely different from province to province). Where I live, our pre-k is ministry funded, which means the province pays for the spot. There are only sixteen spots available in each school, and there is an application form to fill out and then a committee meets and selects the students. 

Here, it's typically a good thing if your child is denied entrance into a school pre-k program. The pre-k spots here at the schools are typically for the students that are behind, in the hopes of catching them up in time for kindergarten. So those with behavioral issues, or speech delays, etc are given more of a priority. Of course, there is a great demand and so sixteen spots per school is not enough. There are a ton of private pre-schools and you have to pay for those. 

It's so interesting to see how different places work. 

Interesting! I'm in Ontario and preschool is just at a daycare centre. It's all play-based learning (as is kindergarten). There is anxiety here about getting a daycare spot but not about whether your preschool determines your academic future. It's just preschool!

American school and maternity leave stories always bum me out. Demand better, Americans!

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2 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Interesting! I'm in Ontario and preschool is just at a daycare centre. It's all play-based learning (as is kindergarten). There is anxiety here about getting a daycare spot but not about whether your preschool determines your academic future. It's just preschool!

American school and maternity leave stories always bum me out. Demand better, Americans!

Quebec has a subsidized daycare system for infants to 5 YO. It's partly paid by the parents, and partly by the state. When it was first created in the late 90's, it was actually only 7$/day per kid, for everyone! But now it has been adjusted according to the parent's income, so some families pay higher according to their means. In both cases, it is much more affordable than most other daycares system in North America.

The network has an educational programs adapted to each age group and their development, may it be emotional, motor or cognitive development. Nothing like Expectopatronum was saying though. It's all adapted according to their age and the goal is to make sure the children keep developing until they're ready for kindergarden. My Mom worked in creating the educational programs in the 90's when the network was first set in place in worked in one of these daycare for most of her career.

That being said, it has created another problem. It is so popular, that their isn't enough spots for every children in the province. So private daycares still operate. kind of like a parallel system, but much more expensive and less regulated. A lot of left-wing parties are campaigning for the public system to be universal, province-wide.

TL;DR: There are a lot of possible solutions for child care out there, depending on the country. But the situation in the US seems like the worst enviable by far. Having kids shouldn't cost parents a fortune.

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8 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

Quebec has a subsidized daycare system for infants to 5 YO. It's partly paid by the parents, and partly by the state. When it was first created in the late 90's, it was actually only 7$/day per kid, for everyone! But now it has been adjusted according to the parent's income, so some families pay higher according to their means. In both cases, it is much more affordable than most other daycares system in North America.

The network has an educational programs adapted to each age group and their development, may it be emotional, motor or cognitive development. Nothing like Expectopatronum was saying though. It's all adapted according to their age and the goal is to make sure the children keep developing until they're ready for kindergarden. My Mom worked in creating the educational programs in the 90's when the network was first set in place in worked in one of these daycare for most of her career.

That being said, it has created another problem. It is so popular, that their isn't enough spots for every children in the province. So private daycares still operate. kind of like a parallel system, but much more expensive and less regulated. A lot of left-wing parties are campaigning for the public system to be universal, province-wide.

TL;DR: There are a lot of possible solutions for child care out there, depending on the country. But the situation in the US seems like the worst enviable by far. Having kids shouldn't cost parents a fortune.

We are in the midst of ramping up to $10/day here and demand is high (was before, too). We're currently paying $26/day, half the original price!

We luckily got our first daycare choice and it's lovely. But many can't get into a centre and use home daycares.

 

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3 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

We are in the midst of ramping up to $10/day here and demand is high (was before, too). We're currently paying $26/day, half the original price!

We luckily got our first daycare choice and it's lovely. But many can't get into a centre and use home daycares.

 

My province is too but there is a SEVERE (to channel my inner JRod) daycare shortage. We’re still wait-listed for my first choice daycare and I went on the list before my daughter was born. Daycare staff are underpaid, non-unionized and often mistreated by parents and directors. Pay needs to increase, benefits need to be given and unlicensed daycares need to shut down in order for the situation to improve. 

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On 3/21/2023 at 10:54 PM, Expectopatronus said:

Nope. They interviewed her and asked if she could accurately print all of her letters (she can’t), quizzed her on shapes and colours (she made two errors), asked about the ages of peers she plays with, extracurricular activities and separation anxiety. Um, my kid has a diagnosis of anxiety so yes, she cries in new environments. They won’t re-screen her. So we are out the $100 application fee. I can’t afford Montessori preschool and if I send her out of division to pre-k, it’s half time and $530/month. Daycare is about $500/month and I can’t afford $1000 every month in total. 

I’m so sorry. As an educator, those are ridiculous requirements for kids that age. Completely against child development. Your child is prob way better off not going there. I teach three year olds at my daycare. I teach them letter formation using play dough, or tracing with q-tips, or building them with blocks..,we use ping dots and markers and giant crayons. The skeletal make up in their hands aren’t ready for paper and pencils yet. 

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7 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

My province is too but there is a SEVERE (to channel my inner JRod) daycare shortage. We’re still wait-listed for my first choice daycare and I went on the list before my daughter was born. Daycare staff are underpaid, non-unionized and often mistreated by parents and directors. Pay needs to increase, benefits need to be given and unlicensed daycares need to shut down in order for the situation to improve. 

It's pretty much the same here. I went on the daycare wait list at about 4 months pregnant and got a spot when my kid turned 17 months. It was pure luck that the daycare was expanding at the time we wanted a spot. (the $10/day thing is resulting in more spaces .. Eventually, at least.)

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I’m reading this conversation from the couch where I’m watching my daughters (9 and 6) and nephew (will be 3 in a month) playing with a bunch of colourful silicon straws. After talking about which colours they each wanted, they’re now walking around holding them on the sides of their heads as “pigtails”, on the tops of their heads saying “I’m an alien”, on their mouths saying “I’m a walrus”, pretending to use them as drumsticks, and waving them in the air like streamers. When one of them wanted the green one that another one had, they offered a swap. They’re copying each other, and building on each other’s ideas. The creativity, problem solving, and social skills involved in simple pretend play are too often underestimated, but even for older kids I think they’re so important. My girls don’t realise as they’re giggling with their cousins that they are practicing skills that will serve them long into the future, but so much comes from the capacity to ask “what if?”

Anyway. Play is absolutely essential work in child development, and kids have so many years of sitting at a desk ahead of them, no need to rush that. Also fwiw my 6yr old literally would not have opened her mouth to answer one of those questions when she was 2.5, and if she had, she would have “failed” that test too. She certainly couldn’t write all her letters and didn’t do any formal extra curricular activities at that age. Then we had 2 years of pandemic interrupting preschool before she started school in 2022. She settled in just fine and is now thriving there both academically and socially.

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On 3/24/2023 at 10:35 PM, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Interesting! I'm in Ontario and preschool is just at a daycare centre. It's all play-based learning (as is kindergarten). There is anxiety here about getting a daycare spot but not about whether your preschool determines your academic future. It's just preschool!

American school and maternity leave stories always bum me out. Demand better, Americans!

I'm in Ontario too and I don't really know what Ontarians do for pre-schools since we have Junior Kindergarten and Senior Kindergarten. JK starts the year your kiddo turns four (which means you might have some three year olds in the class - and as far as I know - is optional. (so is SK). But it's ALL play based learning. I think the goal is they know their letters by the end of SK (so after two years of instruction - they know A-Z and know some numbers). But I think it's also "and now we go to school. And now we sit. And now we play. And now we don't bite our friends. And now we learn how to put on our own coats" etc. 
My son didn't do well in Kindy because his teacher wanted to be teaching 4th graders and because he does MUCH better in highly structured environments and settings. Once he got to grade 1, where he had a teacher who was a dream, and a class room where everyone was expected to be quieter - he did better.

 

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4 hours ago, Meggo said:

I'm in Ontario too and I don't really know what Ontarians do for pre-schools since we have Junior Kindergarten and Senior Kindergarten. JK starts the year your kiddo turns four (which means you might have some three year olds in the class - and as far as I know - is optional. (so is SK). But it's ALL play based learning. I think the goal is they know their letters by the end of SK (so after two years of instruction - they know A-Z and know some numbers). But I think it's also "and now we go to school. And now we sit. And now we play. And now we don't bite our friends. And now we learn how to put on our own coats" etc. 
My son didn't do well in Kindy because his teacher wanted to be teaching 4th graders and because he does MUCH better in highly structured environments and settings. Once he got to grade 1, where he had a teacher who was a dream, and a class room where everyone was expected to be quieter - he did better.

 

Here in ON, preschool is what they call daycare for 3 year olds. The kids/ECE ratio goes up (5:1 in toddlers, 8:1 in preschool) and they do play based learning. They still get a nap.

The American system seems wild and very confusing! Susie Allison (Busy Toddler) is an American former kindy teacher and talks about these insane preschool curricula. They don't make any sense from a developmental point of view.

 

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My grandkids aren't long from pre-school and the three year old program had no worksheets and was play based.  At four they began learning letters, but not with worksheets.  They didn't get worksheets until age 5 and kindergarten.  

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On 3/24/2023 at 10:52 PM, Cam said:

I forgot about the playdoh, and bins filled with beans and rice; we had all those, too. With a smaller group of special need students we even had fake snow which was super fun and something I did with my own grandkids.

I remember once when two sweet little preschool girls were being “moms”,  donning dress-up clothes and using the dolls. They shuffled over to me in their plastic high heels, play dresses and large sun hats and and said. “Will you watch our babies? We’re going out for beers.” 
 

Now they are the future moms I would wanna hang out with lol 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just saw a report that Katie Joy claims Josh Duggar had a FB page while in prison and that she got it shut down

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51 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I just saw a report that Katie Joy claims Josh Duggar had a FB page while in prison and that she got it shut down

she thinks she does a lot of things

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I saw a.little bit of WOACB. She drives me crazy. It seems that the FB was old, and hadn't been updated since Madyson was born. She got it shut  down because people convicted of sexual offenses cannot have a FB account. I think that was it. I didn't listen to the whole thing, because I can't stand her. She initially made it sound like it was a current account.

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2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I saw a.little bit of WOACB. She drives me crazy. It seems that the FB was old, and hadn't been updated since Madyson was born. She got it shut  down because people convicted of sexual offenses cannot have a FB account. I think that was it. I didn't listen to the whole thing, because I can't stand her. She initially made it sound like it was a current account.

Who cares about an old fb page if he hasn’t accessed it since going to prison? She’s one of the most annoying people on YouTube.

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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It must have been his old FB account. For some reason, I friended him, can't remember why. I don't see the account now, and I don't see him on my friends list. 

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