France's Presidential Election

[47of74]

And for a bit of good news, Emmanuel Macron won the French presidential election

Quote

Emmanuel Macron has won France's presidential election, fending off a historic challenge from far-right candidate Marine Le Pen during Sunday's runoff vote.

Macron took 58.55% of Sunday's vote, making him the first French leader to be reelected in 20 years. He and Le Pen advanced to the runoff after finishing in first and second place, respectively, among 12 candidates who ran in the first round on April 10

While the contest was a rematch of the 2017 French presidential runoff, much of Europe watched the election with unease. A Le Pen presidency would have fundamentally changed France's relationship with the European Union and the West, at a time when the bloc and its allies rely on Paris to take a leading role in confronting some of the world's biggest challenges -- most notably, the war in Ukraine.

And though Macron's pitch to voters of a globalized, economically liberal France at the head of a muscular European Union won out over Le Pen's vision for a radical shift inward, the 41.45% of people who voted for her put the French far right closer to the presidency than ever before.

Of course Macron admitted that a lot of voters held their nose and voted for him to keep a Putin puppet from winning. 

[fraurosena]

I do find it rather worrisome that French voters only had a choice between a center-right or a far-right candidate, and that there apparently was no viable candidate on the left. 

Yes, dear American readers, Macron is a rightwing politician, although by your standards you would probably consider him to be very much on the left, if not radically so. 

I do find it rather worrisome that French voters only had a choice between a center-right or a far-right candidate, and that there apparently was no viable candidate on the left. 

Yes, dear American readers, Macron is a rightwing politician, although by your standards you would probably consider him to be very much on the left, if not radically so. 

What's also disconserting is that le Pen got 38% of the votes. In other words considerably more than a third of French voters think her politics are just fine. And although voter turnout was low, with about 74%, that is still a large slice of the French public..

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, fraurosena said:

Yes, dear American readers, Macron is a rightwing politician, although by your standards you would probably consider him to be very much on the left, if not radically so. 

Why do you consider him rightwing?

[47of74]

One thing I remember in going overseas was that countries was that tour directors often said there wasn’t a 1 to 1 mapping between major political parties there and the two main US parties.  

[GreyhoundFan]

[fraurosena]

7 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Why do you consider him rightwing?

It's not my opinion, but France's. Personally, I haven't really looked at his political views, so I wouldn't factually be able to answer you. However, generally speaking, European center rightwing is absolutely liberal left from an American perspective.

AOC and Bernie Sanders are center left for Europeans, certainly not 'radical liberals' as they are seen in US politics.

My country has a rightwing cabinet at the moment-- it's how they see themselves and how voters view them. But what they actually stand for is more in line with what the US left stands for. They see the world through capitalist eyes, although they believe that people have inalienable rights (healthcare, education, etc) that the US does not find as natural and self-evident, and they will not quibble about these rights, only about how much money is spent on them. On the other hand, our left sees the world through 'socialist' eyes. Socialist in the sense of what's good for society as a whole vs what is good for 'the economy', and not equal to communist ideals, as the US generally tends to equate them. If that makes sense.

And to het back to France, I would say that Macron is on the capitalist side of politics, hence rightwing. Le Pen is an authoritarian, hence extremely far right. But as I said, I can't show you any factual examples-- I'm simply repeating the general view in our media. For whatever that's worth. 

[Dandruff]

6 hours ago, fraurosena said:

However, generally speaking, European center rightwing is absolutely liberal left from an American perspective.

How does Europe (in general) view US rightwing, given the divergence in what's considered center?

[fraurosena]

16 hours ago, Dandruff said:

How does Europe (in general) view US rightwing, given the divergence in what's considered center?

I can't really say. I'm an outlier in my circles with my interest (obsession?) with American politics and I can't speak about the general opinions in the whole of Europe. But the general sentiment in my country is that it has a more positive view of Democrats, and people think Republicans are either crooks and/or dumb. But that is mostly based on your Presidents, not your politicians. And let's face it, Nixon, Bush junior and Trump... well, nuff said. Oh, and they don't like Republicans because they stymied Obamacare for so long. All in all their reputation isn't great.

I don't think people over here even know who Mitch McConnell is, or AOC. Nancy Pelosi's name may ring a bell, because her first Speakership was also in our news because she was the first woman. And Bernie Sanders name is known because of his mitten meme. But that's about it, unless there were some scandal that would also reach our news.

I'm guessing if people were to find out about the current American rightwing they'd be horrified.

[Ozlsn]

On 4/25/2022 at 3:56 PM, fraurosena said:

I do find it rather worrisome that French voters only had a choice between a center-right or a far-right candidate, and that there apparently was no viable candidate on the left. 

Yes, dear American readers, Macron is a rightwing politician, although by your standards you would probably consider him to be very much on the left, if not radically so. 

I do find it rather worrisome that French voters only had a choice between a center-right or a far-right candidate, and that there apparently was no viable candidate on the left. 

Yes, dear American readers, Macron is a rightwing politician, although by your standards you would probably consider him to be very much on the left, if not radically so. 

What's also disconserting is that le Pen got 38% of the votes. In other words considerably more than a third of French voters think her politics are just fine. And although voter turnout was low, with about 74%, that is still a large slice of the French public..

To quote one of our electoral analysts - "France, have you considered implementing preferential voting? You could do the whole thing in one hit with no run off, more choice and probably a better turnout!"

[Smash!]

One thing I find odd about US politics as an European: the emphasis on religion in politics. President Biden is a devout catholic and it seems like this is important to voters. I don’t even know if the members of our Federal Council are Protestant or Catholic or if they still belong to a church.

One of the bigger parties here is called Christian Democratic People's Party. They used to be very conservative with strong family values (they were against the bill to make abortions legal) and are traditionally strong in the more conservative, catholic Federal States. On a national level though they are now considered as party in the middle and I don’t see much of christian values anymore.

 

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, Smash! said:

One thing I find odd about US politics as an European: the emphasis on religion in politics. President Biden is a devout catholic and it seems like this is important to voters. I don’t even know if the members of our Federal Council are Protestant or Catholic or if they still belong to a church.

One of the bigger parties here is called Christian Democratic People's Party. They used to be very conservative with strong family values (they were against the bill to make abortions legal) and are traditionally strong in the more conservative, catholic Federal States. On a national level though they are now considered as party in the middle and I don’t see much of christian values anymore.

 

I agree, it's very strange. Separation of church and state really is a thing in Europe, whereas in the US the lines have been blurred so much that there isn't much difference anymore. On the whole the US is way, way more religious than we are over here. Not only in politics, but in daily life. 

[Smash!]

22 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Separation of church and state really is a thing in Europe, whereas in the US the lines have been blurred so much that there isn't much difference anymore. 

This. Tough I wonder how much of the blurring lines is the (sorry to say) fascist GQP movement trying to install a theocracy.

[Becky]

57 minutes ago, Smash! said:

This. Tough I wonder how much of the blurring lines is the (sorry to say) fascist GQP movement trying to install a theocracy.

Just as in the Middle Ages, interdependence between the church and the government enables both to direct the thinking and actions of the populace to the benefit of those in power.  Can't let 'em think for themselves, now can we?  They might realize the ruling class is screwing them over.