Winter OIympics 2022

[meep]

Came here to see if anyone else was keeping up with some of the stuff happening at the Winter Olympics. 

A big thing I've kept my eye on is 15-year-old figure skater Kamila Valieva, skating for Russian Olympic Committee (they are competing as a committee and not a "country" due to failed drug tests in the first place). She was highly anticipated being so young and having done so well in other competitions and exhibitions this year. She did a quad and it made news because no woman had ever landed one at the olympics. Personally I'm not a fan of her style but I understand why people were excited about her competing. Anyways, it was revealed she failed a pre-games drug test back in december but it was only this week that it was revealed & decided by the Court of Arbitration for Sport that she could continue competing in the olympics. The IOC has decided that if Valieva wins (another) gold, there will be no medal ceremony AT ALL, for anyone in that category. 

I think this is all so unfair to basically every athlete involved. Firstly, I doubt Kamila is taking these drugs of her own volition. I'm guessing the adults in her life want the Russian committee to win so badly, they have zero issue with drugging a CHILD. Even if she is agreeing, she is only 15!! She does not have the capacity to understand the long-term repercussions of such a decision. The adults in her life are failing her for their own egos. Not to mention the unfairness to every single athlete competing in the olympics right now, especially competing against Valieva. I can only imagine how it must feel to have trained your whole life, go through all the testing and pass, only for another athlete to come in, fail tests, still be allowed to compete, and then most likely not getting a medal ceremony in that category if she wins. Isn't the point of the olympics to nurture good-natured sportsmanship??? I mean....in theory...in reality it's all about each country puffing up its chest, but at least TRY to make it about good natured sportsmanship when you can! This is only breeding resentment between athletes and countries. /rantover. 

Some links about it:
https://apnews.com/article/winter-olympics-kamila-valieva-doping-decision-0dd063b5092681697525b69cd0c7212d

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU9KpsLYsSg

Also feel free to talk about anything else in the Winter Olympics, from the fake snow they had to produce to some of the worrying conditions in the olympic village. Oh, and positivity it you MUST, but this is a snark board after all. 😂

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by meep
EDIT bc I thought she failed the quad but she actually landed it

[rosamundi]

If children under 16 can't be held responsible for what their entourage give them (which seems to be the line that the Court for Arbitration in Sport are taking), then children under 16 shouldn't be allowed to compete at international level.

yes there are questions to be asked about her entourage and the massive delay in publishing the test results, but the CAS shouldn't be able to go "eh, she's a child, she gets a pass."

I understand that if she wins a medal there are no guarantees that she would not be stripped of it at a later date once the anti-doping process is complete. If there is that much doubt over whether she'd keep her medals, don't let her compete.

The whole thing is unfair on her and on the people she's competing against and should not have got to this.

[Marty1227]

I see you posted the link to the interview with Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir…that really tells the story for me.  Tara was just 15 when she won a gold medal, so she definitely knows what she is talking about.  She, and Johnny, mentioned their mothers’ calling to check on any medication they would take, and Tara even mentioned not eating a poppyseed bagel because of testing.

[DalmatianCat]

36 minutes ago, Marty1227 said:

I see you posted the link to the interview with Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir…that really tells the story for me.  Tara was just 15 when she won a gold medal, so she definitely knows what she is talking about.  She, and Johnny, mentioned their mothers’ calling to check on any medication they would take, and Tara even mentioned not eating a poppyseed bagel because of testing.

I really appreciate Tara’s perspective as a gold medal Olympian at 15. She knew what the rules were. She followed them. If Karina isn’t old enough to be held accountable (and yes, I agree that her coach forced her and should be banned for life), she isn’t old enough to be skating in the women’s division.

It blows my mind what Russia is allowed to get away with at the Olympics.

ETA: I’m glad Tara and Johnny felt confident enough to speak up because the current figure skaters don’t dare do so while the competition is still ongoing because of fear of retribution from the Russian judges. The fact the the USFS association and NBC let them make those comments gives me hope they’re gearing up for Battle Royale with the IOC after the games are over.

Any on what the Japanese or Canadian teams are saying? I followed figure skating for years and years, then lost interest after Charlie White and Merly Davis retired and this has brought be back and fired me up 😂

Edited February 15, 2022 by DalmatianCat
More thoughts

[rosamundi]

I competed at national level at 14. I didn't take so much as an aspirin without checking first.

[tabitha2]

These Russian figure skaters are trained to be gold medal winning phenoms at 15 for an Olympics and disposed of by 19 to apparently get along as best they can.
 

Nathan Chen’s coach Rafael Arutyunyan in an interview:

 

 

“I raised this question five years ago, when no one knew about the current winners of the ladies’ Grand Prix. Even the experts did not know the names of Anna Shcherbakova, Alexandra Trusova and Alena Kostornaia. Then everyone was talking about Julia Lipnitskaya, Elena Radionova and Anna Pogorilaya, and I had Ashley Wagner, who was compared in Russia with a downed pilot. Some even accused me of lobbying the interests of the American skater. I said then, and I’m ready to repeat: it is wrong to force the training of figure skaters. If they know that they can earn money after 18 years old, then at 12 they will not chase the number of difficult jumps and will try to save their body”

 

“When Russian girls, who amazed the world with their sophisticated programs, grew up – they got into trouble. Instead of overcoming them, they left the sport, seeing a generation of even younger and thinner girls behind their backs. They just realized that they have no chance to compete with the current champions who have mastered quad jumps. I wasn’t thinking about Wagner, but about Russian skaters, whose careers I would have gladly followed today”

 

“Only to raise the age of eligibility. Then, both the skaters and the coaches will understand that by the time of girl’s debut, the athlete will have a trained and healthy body. In figure skating, this is a working tool, and it can not be treated barbarously. I don’t really like drinking coffee from disposable cups. When it is poured into a porcelain cup, the taste is completely different. Similarly, I don’t like one-time champions”

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by tabitha2

[FrumperedCat]

I think in all honesty Kamila Valieva is very fortunate to be at an age where she's being offered a bit of a benefit of the doubt. Her coach has such a reputation for eating disorders and a high pressure environment that I think not too many people have an issue putting the blame on her. She's shown she has little ethical issues in her coaching, so doping doesn't come as too much of a shock.

It's interesting that the test was on Christmas Day. I don't compete in sports, but if there was ever a time one might think they'd be safe from the test officials it would be Christmas Day. Good on the officials for going out even on such a day. I'd also be concerned about the wellbeing of someone taking their grandad's medicines...

Link to article about coach https://medium.com/@maddnik/eteri-tutberidze-and-the-future-of-figure-skating-ede4aea1cf76

Edited February 16, 2022 by FrumperedCat

[noseybutt]

IMO she should be given LESS benefit of the doubt because of her age.

Programs willing to dope teenagers should be shut down yesterday.  Too much harm to too many youth.  And there really is no other way to do it other than taking a hardline approach.

 

[SassyPants]

Probably not a popular POV, but I think the team of judges should do whatever it takes to make sure that this athlete who is competing after ingesting a banned substances(s) does not win a gold medal. A lower scored jump or landing could level the playing field a bit. I think it would have been unfair for her to be denied the opportunity to skate given her age and the circumstances, (the same should have applied to the US skater who was Covid positive-slip on a K-N95, skate, and get the heck out of there), but I don’t think she should win the gold medal. Really, I don’t think she should win any more medals in this Olympic Games.

Really, when you step back and look at the situation, she should have been DQ’d from these games. She’s 15, and there’s time. Russian authorities suck-

I do feel bad for the girl, but damn it’s so unfair to the other competitors-

[Marty1227]

I just heard that she also listed two other heart medications on her anti-doping form.  They are known to fight fatigue, and the US officials have tried to get them added to the banned list as they are performance enhancing.

Maybe it’s just me, but I think this undermines the excuse they put forth for how she had the other drug in her system.

[tabitha2]

Everyone does understand what K Valieva did in the free skate right??  She definitely  made sure her teammates got their due and Russia got exactly what they wanted anyway.

Edited February 17, 2022 by tabitha2

[SassyPants]

No female team has been awarded any medals, so its unclear if all ROC, female ice skating participants in the team final will medal. And the gold went to a ROC skater who has not tested positive for banned substances… Should a athlete who tested positive for 3 banned substances be eligible to participate in the Olympics, let alone win a gold medal? 

[viii]

53 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Should a athlete who tested positive for 3 banned substances be eligible to participate in the Olympics, let alone win a gold medal? 

Absolutely not and anybody who thinks yes is dumb, imo. 

Anyway - pleased Canada's women hockey took gold last night! 

[Bastet]

Spoiler

This is from a slate.com article on “The Culture of Child Abuse That’s poisoning Figure Skating”:

Tutberidze has come to be regarded as the world’s leading expert in creating figure skating champions. Her methods are no secret. The Eteri girls talk openly about not being able to drink water during competitions. They do their best to delay puberty by eating only “powdered nutrients” or by taking Lupron, a puberty blocker known to induce menopause. They are subjected to daily public weigh-ins and verbal and physical abuse. And they compete while injured, huffing “smelling salts” while wearing knee braces and collapsing in pain after programs.

Every year, a new, younger Eteri girl emerges on the scene while others retire, at age 17, 16, or even 14. Skating fans call this the “Eteri Expiration Date.” In Sochi, Lipnitskaya was 15 years old, as was Zagitova in Pyeongchang, as is Kamila Valieva right now, in Beijing.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Bastet

[noseybutt]

13 minutes ago, Bastet said:

  Reveal hidden contents

This is from a slate.com article on “The Culture of Child Abuse That’s poisoning Figure Skating”:

Tutberidze has come to be regarded as the world’s leading expert in creating figure skating champions. Her methods are no secret. The Eteri girls talk openly about not being able to drink water during competitions. They do their best to delay puberty by eating only “powdered nutrients” or by taking Lupron, a puberty blocker known to induce menopause. They are subjected to daily public weigh-ins and verbal and physical abuse. And they compete while injured, huffing “smelling salts” while wearing knee braces and collapsing in pain after programs.

Every year, a new, younger Eteri girl emerges on the scene while others retire, at age 17, 16, or even 14. Skating fans call this the “Eteri Expiration Date.” In Sochi, Lipnitskaya was 15 years old, as was Zagitova in Pyeongchang, as is Kamila Valieva right now, in Beijing.

 

This is why I think penalties in situations where the person is underage should be more stringent, not less. Yes, the 15 year old athletes take a hit. But...most are a flash-in-the-pan and a hit now may save them years of chronic health issues.  

The point is to get at the coaches and the programs. It's the coaches who persist year after year and there really is no way to stop them without yanking the medals in very dramatic and public fashion.

[Bastet]

Can we change the title of this to something like “Child Abuse and Figure Skating “?

[RosyDaisy]

Why are Russian athletes even able to compete in any sport internationally?  The whole country should be banned for a whole Olympic cycle or longer and not allowed to compete as ROC or anything else.  A very clear message needs to be sent.  This is not fair to other athletes and countries that play by the rules and should not be tolerated.

[SassyPants]

6 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Everyone does understand what K Valieva did in the free skate right??  She definitely  made sure her teammates got their due and Russia got exactly what they wanted anyway.

This comment makes no sense to me. Her free skate was tainted as it might have been aided by banned substances that she ingested prior. And the ROC team hasn’t won anything, yet. So exactly what are you defending?

Edited February 17, 2022 by SassyPants

[tabitha2]

Yeah. I am a dumb ass. Forgot not everyone is spoiled on the results!  But I don’t get what you mean by defending. 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Why are Russian athletes even able to compete in any sport internationally

My guess? The IOC is corrupt. 

[tabitha2]

The IOC could ban Russia or whatever they call themselves this month … then they flock to any number of countries who would snap them Up as both athletes and coaches. 

[louisa05]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:00 PM, FrumperedCat said:

I think in all honesty Kamila Valieva is very fortunate to be at an age where she's being offered a bit of a benefit of the doubt. Her coach has such a reputation for eating disorders and a high pressure environment that I think not too many people have an issue putting the blame on her. She's shown she has little ethical issues in her coaching, so doping doesn't come as too much of a shock.

It's interesting that the test was on Christmas Day. I don't compete in sports, but if there was ever a time one might think they'd be safe from the test officials it would be Christmas Day. Good on the officials for going out even on such a day. I'd also be concerned about the wellbeing of someone taking their grandad's medicines...

Link to article about coach https://medium.com/@maddnik/eteri-tutberidze-and-the-future-of-figure-skating-ede4aea1cf76

Test was at Russian National Championships. It’s typically held that week in December. Russians celebrate Christmas on epiphany as tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church. 

[clueliss]

My question is what are they gonna do about the team skating event medal. She participated in that.

 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, clueliss said:

My question is what are they gonna do about the team skating event medal. She participated in that.

 

Yep!

[louisa05]

4 hours ago, clueliss said:

My question is what are they gonna do about the team skating event medal. She participated in that.

 

Allegedly, after the B sample is tested and Sambo 70 investigation is completed, there will be a medal ceremony. But they’ve already said after the Olympics are over. There’s no way they can get all these athletes together at a later date. They’ll get medals in the mail. It’s been reported that they were given the boxes already.