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Finnish-Australian Vegan Doomsday Cult Family of 12


PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea

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Hi, all! YouTube suggested this family to me this morning and I promptly fell down a huge rabbit hole. Help!

Paul and Taina (pronounced with a long I sound) Licciardo-Toivola live in remote Finland with their 10 kids, named Leonardo, Cleopatra Taina Bride, Jerusalem, Shakespeare, Romeo, D’Artagnan, KingJames Ocean, Aphrodite, Nefertiti Butterfly Bambi and Omega Royal Fox. Though they seem to dress modern, allow tongue rings on their 18 year old (Cleo), and maybe don't homeschool (?), Paul seems pretty into the doomsday cult his mom started. The kids only wear white because the family is "minimalist", their house is huge, and they haven't explained why they left Australia for rural Finland. They seem to allow the older ones to have social media but they also seem incredibly isolated. Paul doesn't appear in the videos often and how he pays for this all is my newest favourite mystery!

Based on Taina's morning routine vids (posted below), she MUST blanket train her kids because the four youngest in diapers sit on a blanket waiting to be changed.

Paul's Mom (started a culty thing in Australia): http://www.jesuslightsministries.com/

Taina's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-PepfX4nM19zhdgEn3o5kg

Morning routine with what I think are blanket-trained babies, around the 8 minute mark:

Paul's weird religious videos, which all seem very short. All I can gather is he really likes the King James bible; they named a kid after it!: https://www.youtube.com/user/elohimisjesus

Some of the older kids, Leonardo (who I think the is the married one at age 20?) and Cleopatra have vlog channels, just look up their full names on YouTube if you are interested. I feel a bit bad dragging them into this mess (but of course their channels are public).

Of course YTMD has beaten me to this - I'm not the only one who gets blanket training vibes! Props to them for finding out some middle names (there's no family intro video but Taina mentions that the two youngest girls both have Bambi as a middle name) and for finding Paul's mom.  https://ytmommadrama.com/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=13817

The kids don't seem especially programmed but do seem quite isolated (I hope I'm wrong). I'll give the parents props for at least letting them have social media accounts. Do any of them go to uni or anything post-secondary? Google tells me homeschooling has only been legal in Finland since 2015 so where do they kids go to school? So many questions.

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Holy shit.

That is officially the craziest group of names I have seen on FJ, and that says a LOT.

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1) they are absolutely blanket trained. I’m disturbed by how long all 4 have to lay on that blanket in the morning while she changes diapers, gets their teeth brushed, gets dressed, and makes breakfast. That was crazy.

2) it looks like the whole family is only allowed to wear white and denim. There was nothing else worn by the family members and that was all I saw in the laundry. 

3) they squeeze 12 year homeschool curriculum into 9 years. 

4) she calls the youngest 4 babies but the oldest of the four is a three year old. She’s not a baby. 

5) their names are off the hook. KingJames, Cleopatra, Nefertiti, Omega, and so many more...

6) the mother gets up at 2:55am every morning and it looks like dad sleeps in all morning during the morning routine. Typical fundie father. 

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Hi! Longtime lurker here. Had to comment now, since these great people are my fellow countrymen.

Firstly just to correct, homeschooling has always been legal in Finland.

We have always had our own share of crazy religious people, the family seems  typical prosperity theology, anti-vaxxer, fitness maniac type, nothing new there really. Usually they don't come out and vlog about their personal lives like this though. There are already discussions on Finnish boards about her. So I really hope that her posting videos like this means she doesn't blanket train. Corporal punishment is illegal in Finland and she has already stirred enough attention and talk about all the weirdness that there's a good chance somebody decides to call social services. It can be done anonymously.

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20 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

He /she will have to be the last child then?!!!! 

I think I saw Taina comment that he's the last one. (She replies very sporadically on YouTube, it's hard to remember where and when!) When he was born, the kid above him was just over a year and the next one up was still just under 2!!!!

I'm unclear if/how Quiverfull they are. I also meant to give props that they've hyphenated their two last names. It's a bit hard to tell how complementarian the marriage is (or not) because Paul appears infrequently, though at least he gets to sleep in!

Thanks for holding my hand through this, y'all. I just had to share the insanity!!

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The two youngest were born exactly a year apart (that’s what she says). So I’m going to assume the youngest was born on the second youngest’s 1st birthday. And the second youngest and third youngest are Irish twins. She said when the youngest was born she had 2 1 year olds and a newborn. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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"I don't expect my children to have ten children, or any children at all." at 7:34:

 

I think Taina mentions being 41 in the video and the oldest is 20 and engaged after "being together" with his lady for one year. So I guess they're all about the young marriages and short dating/courtship/whatever periods.

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The oldest boy seems to be engaged to a girl named Jenna and she seems to match their color scheme ?

BTW, they are allowed to wear gray and black as well. She remarked that at a play area where shoes are not permitted, her children were the only ones with their shoes all lined up perfectly. She seemed to think it humorous but it just shows how stringent their rules are at home. Her children remind me of the Rods. They are always keeping everything perfectly tidy and clean. 

Leonardo says they live in the middle of nowhere and they moved there from Australia 8 years ago. He says he can’t wait to go back. He doesn’t sound happy in Finland. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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21 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The oldest boy seems to be engaged to a girl named Jenna and she seems to match their color scheme ?

 

Looks like they got married July 9 2018. I'm curious how they're paying the bills! Her insta:

 

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19 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Looks like they got married July 9 2018. I'm curious how they're paying the bills! Her insta:

 

The parents seem to have money. I bet they are paying his bills. 

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1 hour ago, hidaslori said:

Firstly just to correct, homeschooling has always been legal in Finland. 

.

Thanks, I saw this headline and didn't read the article, which says that in 2015, Finnish courts decided that "the school has no statutory authority to force supervision on families but must work together with parents." The headline was a bit misleading but I should have read the article!

https://hslda.org/content/hs/international/finland/201502230.asp

I think the "new" way to do blanket training is with positive reinforcement, not negative. (I remember Amy from Corner of Joy doing this I think?) So if she is blanket training (and I can't imagine how else you'd get four littles on a blanket for that long without moving), I really really hope it's via bribery, not abuse.

Honestly, the kids are pretty lively and sometimes rough in the videos. Taina doesn't seem *too* concerned when they pile on top of the baby in the last video I posted. So it's hard to imagine they're facing a lot of corporal punishment. On the other hand, maybe I just don't know what that looks like.

 

Edited to add: I finally scrolled back far enough to find Amy Joy's description of non-violent blanket training: http://cornerofjoy.blogspot.com/2015/05/oh-hello.html

Edited by PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea
Finally found the link I was looking for
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Insta stalking has revealed: Kingjames  11/12/2015 (or at least that was when it was posted, and he looks pretty new)

Omega Royal Fox 11/08/2017

Jerusalem is rocking white boy dreads.

Edited by keen23
New info
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20 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I think the "new" way to do blanket training is with positive reinforcement, not negative. (I remember Amy from Corner of Joy doing this I think?) So if she is blanket training (and I can't imagine how else you'd get four littles on a blanket for that long without moving), I really really hope it's via bribery, not abuse.

I see, thanks! I just associated the term with beating. Certainly her morning routines with the "babies" are pretty far removed from age appropriate or normal.

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My heart skipped a beat at this part:

830428437_ScreenShot2018-11-12at12_25_51PM.thumb.png.c9ba8c01909f6c31d89eddbd34db7158.png

Just a 4 year old hanging precariously over the second floor railing  :pink-shock:

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1 hour ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I think the "new" way to do blanket training is with positive reinforcement, not negative. (I remember Amy from Corner of Joy doing this I think?) So if she is blanket training (and I can't imagine how else you'd get four littles on a blanket for that long without moving), I really really hope it's via bribery, not abuse.

A while back, while Googling "blanket training," I came across a mother(nobody we discuss here)who'd come up with a song: "Blanket time, blanket time/It's our favorite time of day/Blanket time, blanket time/On the blanket we must stay."

:wtsf:

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The worst part of her blanket time is that they have no toys and they have to just lay there. She doesn’t even seem to want them to sit up. It’s so weird. 

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8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The worst part of her blanket time is that they have no toys and they have to just lay there. She doesn’t even seem to want them to sit up. It’s so weird. 

I think it's weird how much she seems to be treating the toddlers like babies

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32 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

I think it's weird how much she seems to be treating the toddlers like babies

It seems their older children are more spread out in age. She also looks like she gets Botox. I’m wondering if she suddenly wants babies when she’s closing in on 40 to feel younger. Kind of like JillRod who would carry “nursing baby Sofia” all around until she had another baby to replace her at over 2 and a half. 

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