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GenerationCedarchip

Classical Conversations as Vision Forum 2.0?

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GenerationCedarchip

I don't know how many here read the SSB blog, but she has been running a series on the Classical Conversations homeschool program that I thought would be of interest to some readers here. I know that CC has been growing by leaps and bounds in my area, and it's huge in homeschool circles. I found the discussion on the blog comments VERY interesting, and was curious if anyone here had had any dealings with CC. I've spoken to several folks involved with the group but it didn't seem like a good fit for our family, so I never pursued it. As the group has become more dominant in homeschooling circles, I've started hearing more stories that just sounded a bit "off" and I have to admit I do wonder what goes on behind the scenes. The promo shows one side of things, but the business aspects of CC and some of what is taught there is something of a veiled world.

In case you're wondering about the topic title, I took it from a comment left by someone who had dealings with Vision Forum apparently also has concerns about CC.  Here's the link to Pt. 1 of the series for those who are interested: https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2018/06/20/classical-conversations-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

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MomKB

I heard about it a few years ago, when some fundies we knew tried to get us to join. It was very popular, but didn't appeal to me at all. From what I heard, students were in the same class all day (covering all subjects,) one day  a week, taught by one of the parents. You had to use the set CC curriculum. The rest of the week you did homework from that curriculum. It was heavy on rote memorization.

The family I knew is super patriarchal. The dad taught the class his daughter was in, and they held her back a year, because you had to start the program in a certain grade. He's not a qualified teacher, and at one point his wife told me one of his student's parents were looking for a private Latin tutor to supplement her education. (Latin is big in the classical approach from what I understand.)

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Meh
formergothardite

I have an acquaintance who is involved with CC, but I don't know anything about it. I'll have to read this. 

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GenerationCedarchip
21 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I have an acquaintance who is involved with CC, but I don't know anything about it. I'll have to read this. 

I spent a chunk of the day going through the posts and comments.  Very interesting reading.

I had gotten intrigued first because CC is so huge here. Also, one of my cousins was involved with them for a while. She loved it at first but as she got deeper into the group, she started having concerns about the business practices and the "ask no questions" mentality from higher-ups.

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Shiny

Classical Conversations is so scammy. It's like the Scientology of the homeschooling word. 

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Meh
Evangeline

I have an acquaintance who is very into CC. Every kid brag is "look what Child has memorized." I'm not even against some rote memorization, in moderation. I think it's a useful skill. But if that's all you're doing, that's not education and it certainly isn't Classical education. Is CC just A Beka with a coat of lipstick on? I honestly don't get it. 

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GenerationCedarchip

Just popping back in to say that there's a new post up on this today, a guest post from a CC parent. I found in v. interesting. I had figured out this method wasn't for us, but I had no idea about some of this stuff!

 

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2018/07/23/classical-conversations-6-rigid-rules-and-legal-tax-concerns/

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MamaJunebug

 

2 hours ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

Just popping back in to say that there's a new post up on this today, a guest post from a CC parent. I found in v. interesting. I had figured out this method wasn't for us, but I had no idea about some of this stuff!

 

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2018/07/23/classical-conversations-6-rigid-rules-and-legal-tax-concerns/

The devotion to unchangeabke 15-minute time periods screamed “Maxwell wannabes!” to me. The tax implications are beyond my wheelhouse but I wonder why a place like CC doesn’t just sell the books and lesson plans and be done with it!

 

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Shiny
1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

 

The devotion to unchangeabke 15-minute time periods screamed “Maxwell wannabes!” to me. The tax implications are beyond my wheelhouse but I wonder why a place like CC doesn’t just sell the books and lesson plans and be done with it!

 

There isn’t any money on selling the materials. They get their money by selling the community. So many homeschoolers are in CC because they think  it’s a community of good, Christian families. For a lot of them it’s the only interaction the women get with other people. Even when the families are unhappy with the program, they stay and pay all that money for the social aspect. 

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SoybeanQueen
3 hours ago, Shiny said:

There isn’t any money on selling the materials.

Then they definitely aren't good. If they were, there would be plenty of money in selling them. Homeschooling is huge in lots of different lifestyle groups. Many will pay quite a bit for excellent curriculum. Hell, many will pay for just halfway decent curriculum. :tw_joy:

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frumperlicious

I joined the home school group Facebook page for the military community we live near, before we moved. My kids were freshman and senior in Hs so I thought it not real probable we would ever do anything with the group (and I was right) but just in case, see who is out there, etc. We used/use a variety of things from online classes, classes at the international hs, college courses, etc in our home school, always have. 

 

Well, the group became CC only, basically, with a big push from the leaders to join up and the group used only to push CC and their activities. It was disappointing to see, as the group is secular since it includes a wide variety of people, the group become only a narrow stripe of Christianity. While we were never probably going to participate in anything, I’m sure many military his families would like a community...but now it’s join CC or nothing. 

Plus it’s expensive to boot! 

 

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Spent
potato

I recently stumbled across a Youtube channel/vlog from a family in North Pole, Alaska and was wondering if they were fundies.  I was going through their site and found that they use CC, so I'm grateful I found this thread!  

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Koala

My sil had my niece in CC, and I have a "friend" who basically dropped the pretense of trying to school at home, and enrolled her 3 daughters.  

Going to read this, because I don't know anything about it.  We are Atheist, so we're not the first people Christians run to with news about this kind of thing.

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AuLait

I will have to read through the posts on it! I know a few people who do CC but they never talk about it. They are conservative Christian but not fundie and pretty mainstream. In my particular homeschooling circle, CC  side-eyed for being expensive and OTT. 

Edited by AuLait

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nausicaa

Someone I used to work with who is Fundie lite uses this with her daughters. I have to say the woman, while nice, was not very academically inclined. We tutored together, and when I was prepping her for taking the SAT--required by anyone who teaches the SAT-- she boggled at the essay section, saying in college (Bob Jones University...) they didn't really "do" essays, but matching type exercises. In college.

She is now "CC teacher accredited" and it's disheartening to see her leading a group of students one day a week.

And maybe this is BEC, but her CC group did a historical figure presentation for one activity, and some of the kids are dressed as Pocahontas and Sacajawea and the parents didn't even attempt to make them even moderately historically accurate. Just bagged Halloween costumes with the deerskin dress and feather headband. 

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Waffle Time
Lisafer

Thanks for the link! I homeschool and have heard "of" CC, but never paid much attention to what it entailed. I don't have time right now to read all the articles, but the one from the person involved in CC was enough to make me want to run away screaming. I thought one of the benefits of alternative education was flexibility, not absolute adherence to a rigid schedule! It sounds insane to me.

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Astonished
Soulhuntress

Ironic that classical education is anything but what this program actually teaches or accomplishes.  Antiquity had kids leaving home "gasp" to be taught by professionals.  Middle Ages monastaries and cathedral schools had priests and monks teaching the aristocrats kiddos.  Again taught outside the home.  The only ones mommy taught would be serf's kids and girls.  

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anniebgood
On 7/25/2018 at 7:55 AM, potato said:

I recently stumbled across a Youtube channel/vlog from a family in North Pole, Alaska and was wondering if they were fundies.  I was going through their site and found that they use CC, so I'm grateful I found this thread!  

The Wilkinson's of strange named children live in North Pole. Link please?

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JemimaPuddle-Duck
On 7/25/2018 at 6:55 AM, potato said:

I recently stumbled across a Youtube channel/vlog from a family in North Pole, Alaska and was wondering if they were fundies.  I was going through their site and found that they use CC, so I'm grateful I found this thread!  

Do you have a link?

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Spent
potato

@anniebgood @JemimaPuddle-Duck Sorry for the late reply- I've been busy helping friends move apartments all weekend.  It's the Somers family and this is their channel: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC02NY8Q55HWVXKLrFpj_2QQ

They don't seem to be extremely hardcore fundie, but they believe in courtship and sometimes give me fundie-lite vibes.

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JemimaPuddle-Duck
50 minutes ago, potato said:

@anniebgood @JemimaPuddle-Duck Sorry for the late reply- I've been busy helping friends move apartments all weekend.  It's the Somers family and this is their channel: 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC02NY8Q55HWVXKLrFpj_2QQ

They don't seem to be extremely hardcore fundie, but they believe in courtship and sometimes give me fundie-lite vibes.

Thank you! We have good friends in the area, and wondered if I might know them , but I guess not. 

 

On a a different note, I am not a fan of CC and only know of maybe two other Christian friends who are involved with it. I do follow a homeschool mom who is a CC leader and she is pretty fantastic, but she seems to go above and beyond what CC requires. Farmhouseschoolhouse. 

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Abstract

Long-time lurker, just made my first post on a Duggar thread last week. I just may park myself here for awhile because I do love a good Classical Conversations bashing thread. They come up frequently on the Well-Trained Mind forums.

I see one friend of mine running herself ragged to be a director because she feels it’s what God is calling her to do (hmm, wonder where she got that idea?). She is the epitome of good homeschool mom and doesn’t need some MLM scheme to educate her kids well. And yet she doesn’t know any other way. Another friend is strapped financially and the CC tuition is a burden to her, but again, she thinks she HAS to do this in order to homeschool well.

I would love to see the whole house of cards topple.

 

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GenerationCedarchip
10 hours ago, Abstract said:

Long-time lurker, just made my first post on a Duggar thread last week. I just may park myself here for awhile because I do love a good Classical Conversations bashing thread. They come up frequently on the Well-Trained Mind forums.

I see one friend of mine running herself ragged to be a director because she feels it’s what God is calling her to do (hmm, wonder where she got that idea?). She is the epitome of good homeschool mom and doesn’t need some MLM scheme to educate her kids well. And yet she doesn’t know any other way. Another friend is strapped financially and the CC tuition is a burden to her, but again, she thinks she HAS to do this in order to homeschool well.

I would love to see the whole house of cards topple.

 

I've seen that sort of thinking from other folks, too, and it makes me sad.  CC is mighty expensive!  And it seems like the folks who do it well have to supplement a lot.

As I mentioned, my cousin started off liking it, but even after she got disillusioned, she stayed in for a bit because  she had been told for so long that she needed CC as a tool or else her kids just wouldn't be successful, etc..

I may have to check out the Well-Trained Mind forums. My style runs more toward Charlotte Mason at least for early grades, but some of the classical philosophy does interest me. Honestly, I just want my children to learn and to enjoy learning and I don't want to be so rigid in following any one philosophy that I start being devoted to it more than to what the kids need.

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SoybeanQueen

A CC group started up a few years ago here. I found it interesting to see who did not join up versus who did. The ones that stood out to me: family with a mom who is a licensed elementary teacher, families where one or both parents have a college degree.

It has always irritated me that the most expensive homeschool curricula seem to be targeted to the people who can least afford it.

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Petronella
6 hours ago, SoybeanQueen said:

A CC group started up a few years ago here. I found it interesting to see who did not join up versus who did. The ones that stood out to me: family with a mom who is a licensed elementary teacher, families where one or both parents have a college degree.

It has always irritated me that the most expensive homeschool curricula seem to be targeted to the people who can least afford it.

Are the families you describe the ones who joined or the ones who didn’t join?

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