Why evangelicals don't matter anymore

[silvia]

http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-people-dont-take-right-wing-evangelicals-so-seriously-anymore

Totally hits the nail on the head: Americans are waking up to the fact that evangelicals are sex-obsessed, bigoted, greedy, indifferent to reality, and in general, the kind of people Jesus would've run screaming from. And if you replace every instance of "evangelicals" in the article with "Duggars," it totally works!

 

[feministxtian]

This article is right on. I am a Christian, yet I often hesitate to identify myself as such precisely because of the views put forward by the so-called "leaders" of US Evangelical Christianity (EC). They DO NOT speak for me. They do not speak for most of the people I know (liberal, pro-choice, LBGTQA affirming, SSM-supporting, social justice types). For me, my faith is something I hold on to strongly. HOWEVER, my bible doesn't seem to have the same things in it that the EC's claim it has. The one I try like hell to follow (and often fall short) said to love my neighbor as myself. That "neighbor", to me, means EVERYONE. PERIOD. There's a verse in the bible that says something about love driving out fear. If one loves (agape) then there is no reason to fear. ECs fear. Not cool. 

[salex]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

This article is right on. I am a Christian, yet I often hesitate to identify myself as such precisely because of the views put forward by the so-called "leaders" of US Evangelical Christianity (EC). They DO NOT speak for me. They do not speak for most of the people I know (liberal, pro-choice, LBGTQA affirming, SSM-supporting, social justice types). For me, my faith is something I hold on to strongly. HOWEVER, my bible doesn't seem to have the same things in it that the EC's claim it has. The one I try like hell to follow (and often fall short) said to love my neighbor as myself. That "neighbor", to me, means EVERYONE. PERIOD. There's a verse in the bible that says something about love driving out fear. If one loves (agape) then there is no reason to fear. ECs fear. Not cool. 

I believe very much on this

25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’c ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d ”

28“You have answered correctly,”Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

[feministxtian]

my theology is entirely based on this: 

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

[RoseWilder]

Wow, that article described half of my relatives. They spend all their time on Facebook alternating between bragging about how godly/Christian/loving/amazing they are and mocking anyone who has a different political or religious viewpoint from them. And they never seem to recognize how mean/unChristian their behavior is.

I feel grateful every single day that they live several states away. 

[Inky]

What an excellent article - thanks for posting.

 

I don't personally know anyone like that (thank goodness - but this is Canada so I guess our evangelicals are more understated), but it certainly describes those in the news lately.

[punkiepie]

As a recovering fundie/fundie-lite, I've had to block posts from a lot of people on Facebook that I consider "family."  When I see them repost articles and write their own accompanying vitriolic statements, I can't help but want no part of the belief system that causes them to write such hate-filled commentary.  The true foundation of Christianity is Jesus and yet Jesus is nowhere to be found by these people. In my studies of Jesus, he was all about loving the poor, the widows, the orphans, the outcasts, the harlots and "whores", and the sinners- in general. His condemnation was reserved for people who judged others and those who preferred using the law to justify not doing the right thing.  The essence of Jesus is supposed to be love and all I see is hate and intolerance.  

[Grimalkin]

There are two MASSIVE evangelical churches in my area. One brags that it's congregation is mostly ex Catholics. I can't tell you how many kids go through first communion at thier local Catholic Church but go to th mega church with thier families. I am not sure those sentiments hit these parts. 

           I am curious if the mega church is as big as I think it is. How many people know what big mega church is in Chicago burbs? Guesses?

[punkiepie]

23 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

There are two MASSIVE evangelical churches in my area. One brags that it's congregation is mostly ex Catholics. I can't tell you how many kids go through first communion at thier local Catholic Church but go to th mega church with thier families. I am not sure those sentiments hit these parts. 

           I am curious if the mega church is as big as I think it is. How many people know what big mega church is in Chicago burbs? Guesses?

Willow Creek is the first once that comes to mind, but the big fundie church in the Chicago metro area is Northwest Baptist Bible Chruch. Their pastor, Keith Gomez, is super squicky and a good friend of Jack Schapp, from the infamous Hyles-Anderson college and family.  

Willow Creek is a no where near as crazy as Northwest Baptist, but it's more famous.  

[RosyDaisy]

That article doesn't speak for all Evangelical Christians. Believe it or not, there are Evangelicals who actually follow the teachings of Christ...taking care of the poor, the hungry, and the sick.

[foreign fundie]

2 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

That article doesn't speak for all Evangelical Christians. Believe it or not, there are Evangelicals who actually follow the teachings of Christ...taking care of the poor, the hungry, and the sick.

I think there are lots. Among evangelicals in other countries it is widely known that if you are involved in medical relief work, education of marginalised groups, rebuilding disaster struck areas and so on, and you need money, it is the American evangelicals who give. They have serious budgets for and commitments to this kind of work. And I personally know many evangelical Americans who do this work at considerable personal sacrifice.

I think part of the problem is that American evangelicalism has some very vocal leaders who are materialistic, superficial, judgemental, power hungry and/or lack personal integrity. Also they have political leaders (the big T anyone?) who have lifestyles and opinions miles away from Christ's example, yet publicly and proudly identify as Christian. The weakness of American evangelicalism is that they embrace or tolerate these leaders instead of kicking them on the curb.

And I agree that evangelicalism has too long been defined as a set of believes, so anyone who claimed to believe the right theology, no matter how otherwise corrupt they were, could identify as evangelical. As Jesus said 'blessed are those who hear my words and put them into practice'.

[Grimalkin]

9 hours ago, punkiepie said:

Willow Creek is the first once that comes to mind, but the big fundie church in the Chicago metro area is Northwest Baptist Bible Chruch. Their pastor, Keith Gomez, is super squicky and a good friend of Jack Schapp, from the infamous Hyles-Anderson college and family.  

Willow Creek is a no where near as crazy as Northwest Baptist, but it's more famous.  

     Willow is what I was thinking. Harvest Bible Chapel is another. In high school I used to make out in the parking lot of Willow Creek because it was a secluded spot. I think Willow Creek still has a good reputation and they do lots of good things. It also is a good place for nut bags to hide out in. It still is growing at a fast rate. I get a bit miffed during the Christmas season though because Willow collects gifts and money for convicts. It makes me bristle. 

      I see the NW Bible church busses now and then but as far as I know, I don't know anyone who goes there.         

5 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

That article doesn't speak for all Evangelical Christians. Believe it or not, there are Evangelicals who actually follow the teachings of Christ...taking care of the poor, the hungry, and the sick.

I was going to mention that I don't think that article represented the local mega church near me. I will say there is an Evangelical Free church which is considerably smaller for the crazies to go to.

[apple1]

10 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

           I am curious if the mega church is as big as I think it is. How many people know what big mega church is in Chicago burbs? Guesses?

Willow Creek

(posted that before reading the rest of the thread)

[clueliss]

I thought of Willow Creek because the church I went to before I moved 6 years ago was part of the Willow Creek Association.  

[Peas n carrots]

Ah Willow Creek. I have an industry college that goes there and he has invited me to some of their functions. They don't strike me as fundie though, just run of the mill modern Christian.

[clueliss]

The church I went to was somewhere in the mainstream to evangelical zone.  

[2xx1xy1JD]

Have we talked about the different "cultures" of various evangelical churches?

I know about the very conservative white American evangelicals from the media and from sites like this.

In real life, though, the few evangelicals that I know are ethnic (Filippino, Korean, Chinese, Iranian, Indian, Black, etc.).  They can be very religious, but they aren't the dominant group, and I'm not aware of them being Dominionist or having privilege distress.

Anyone with experience with both group who has any more insight?

 

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

The greatest of those truly doing work for humanity and living exemplary lives, we will never hear about. They won't toot their own horns.  

[refugee]

12 hours ago, punkiepie said:

As a recovering fundie/fundie-lite, I've had to block posts from a lot of people on Facebook that I consider "family."  When I see them repost articles and write their own accompanying vitriolic statements, I can't help but want no part of the belief system that causes them to write such hate-filled commentary.  The true foundation of Christianity is Jesus and yet Jesus is nowhere to be found by these people. In my studies of Jesus, he was all about loving the poor, the widows, the orphans, the outcasts, the harlots and "whores", and the sinners- in general. His condemnation was reserved for people who judged others and those who preferred using the law to justify not doing the right thing.  The essence of Jesus is supposed to be love and all I see is hate and intolerance.  

I'm in the same place. I've actually been avoiding FB the past few months (not actively -- it started with not following the impulse to click, just to see what was new, until now I don't even get that impulse anymore. I go to FB only to check on a very ill friend who detests the telephone, but keeps people updated on FB if the family has needs).

I don't miss it at all, I find.

You've summed it up well. I don't call myself a christian anymore, because the word has been so tainted by his so-called followers. 

11 hours ago, punkiepie said:

Willow Creek is the first once that comes to mind, but the big fundie church in the Chicago metro area is Northwest Baptist Bible Chruch. Their pastor, Keith Gomez, is super squicky and a good friend of Jack Schapp, from the infamous Hyles-Anderson college and family.  

Willow Creek is a no where near as crazy as Northwest Baptist, but it's more famous.  

I wonder if the father selling his 26yo dd to the highest bidder (in "moral" terms) comes from one of those churches.

p.s. It's tempting to tar everyone with the same brush. I came out of a super inward-focused culture, and I know there are churches -- even in our area -- that focus on outreach and helping others. My family is attending one of those. I'm not committed to the church -- I'm too wary to commit to any man-organized structure at the moment -- but I will admit that the spirit there is totally different from that of the so-called church we left.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Peas n carrots said:

Ah Willow Creek. I have an industry college that goes there and he has invited me to some of their functions. They don't strike me as fundie though, just run of the mill modern Christian.

Had a boss years ago who was one of their ministers and later on a coworker who was quite active.   Neither fundie, just mainstream conservative Christian though boss struck me as a bit more on the fundie side (didn't like women working) than the coworker who was very much a independent, ambitious working woman.   Boss was big on prosperity gospel.   Being that Willow has a large congregation it makes sense that there can be a range from from mainstream to fundie-ish.  

[apple1]

Been thinking about this article.

I actually disagree with the "nail on the head" summary. To me, it has the hallmarks of the author having flipped from one-sided black and white thinking to opposite-sided black and white thinking. And while there are a number of correct observations, in reality, on all sides, things are much more gray. And there are also good people being tarred with the same brush as fits the worst.

The other issue: The term "evangelical" has often been applied by outsiders to various church groups. Frequently not used by churches or church members themselves (in many churches) as a self-description. But in the article it seems to be applied to quite the variety. So I think the term in itself adds to the confusion.

I do think the term "evangelical" has become a liability. In that, I agree with the article.

Just my thoughts.

[QuiverDance]

Evangelical doesn't really equal fundamentalist.  One of my best friends is a Lutheran pastor.  Even though Lutheranism is an evangelical denomination of Christianity, she'd fit right in here.   

[nokidsmom]

5 minutes ago, apple1 said:

Been thinking about this article.

I actually disagree with the "nail on the head" summary. To me, it has the hallmarks of the author having flipped from one-sided black and white thinking to opposite-sided black and white thinking. And while there are a number of correct observations, in reality, on all sides, things are much more gray. And there are also good people being tarred with the same brush as fits the worst.

The other issue: The term "evangelical" has often been applied by outsiders to various church groups. Frequently not used by churches or church members themselves (in many churches) as a self-description. But in the article it seems to be applied to quite the variety. So I think the term in itself adds to the confusion.

I do think the term "evangelical" has become a liability. In that, I agree with the article.

Just my thoughts.

I agree that the term "evangelical" has come to be associated with the more negative aspects of evangelical Christianity and become the "catch all" definition for it when in truth it's much broader than that and it's not all negative.  I went to a college associated with an evangelical church.  While conservative, the church focuses heavily on humanitarian mission work and true humanitarian work, they are the anti-John Schraders.  Also they have gotten into social justice / urban outreach since my time there, I would say they were closer to the negative aspects of what is associated with evangelicals back then.  Yet, as they have evolved in a more positive way, their key word to describe their church devolved into being more negative. 

[19 cats and counting]

In 2004, I was polled by Newsweek about evangelicals in politics.  They defined evangelical as one who self identifies as 'born again.'

[feministxtian]

Willow Creek and Saddleback are despised by the more fundie churches. so is North Point. My church uses many of their resources, bible studies and most importantly Celebrate Recovery (which started at Saddleback). 

I don't necessarily agree with everything these mega-churches stand for, but they're definitely not "fundamentalist" at all. 

**please, no blasting of the churches or my beliefs here...