Airline passenger asked to move for religious accomodation

[Boogalou]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/07 ... ation.html

A Porter airline passenger flying from New York to Toronto was asked (rather rudely) to move by " a man wearing traditional Orthodox Jewish garb". I can't believe people still believe and act like this in this day and age.

[HereticHick]

We've discussed this phenom before on FJ. Many of us have made it clear that Hell No we are not ever changing seats because of someone else's religious biases. If you think females have cooties and don't want to sit next to one, purchase 3 seats & sit in the middle.

Cavemen probably shouldn't really be in flying machines, anyway. :)

[PennySycamore]

Why does a supposedly grown man act no better than an elementary school boy afraid of getting "cooties" from touching a girl? Why couldn't he have just not touched or talked to her and just kept his meagre distance?

FWIW, cooties in this situation refer to that ineffable, unquantifiable, squick that little girls seem to possess, according to little boys. It does not refer to the game of Cootie or to any kind of insect life that one may find on a person.

[Idolatry]

I fly a lot, and I secretly hope this happens to me. I've seen it happen, but never close enough to comment. Everyone always rolls over, as is this is a reasonable request. If he asked not to sit next to a black person, he'd be KICKED OFF THE PLANE. I don't understand why everyone rolls over for this asshole behavior.

I've rehearsed this in my head. :)

I'd stand up for maximum effect. And I'd tell that guy, loudly and slowly, that he doesn't have to sit in his seat, he can take a seat in the waiting area, where he won't have to touch brown people. Then sit back and watch the response. Because it's OK to hate women, but not races?

[Gimme a Free RV]

What if the man he ended up sitting next to was Muslim? Gay? Transgendered? An overly zealous tele-evangelist? What if he was seated beside a three-year old little girl?

If it was so important that he not sit next to a female, that should have been taken care of BEFORE boarding the airplane.

[snarkykitty]

What if the man he ended up sitting next to was Muslim? Gay? Transgendered? An overly zealous tele-evangelist? What if he was seated beside a three-year old little girl?

If it was so important that he not sit next to a female, that should have been taken care of BEFORE boarding the airplane.

Is that Jill in your avatar? It really creeped me out!! :pink-shock:

[FundieFarmer]

This is utterly ridiculous. I also found it surprising he thought he could get anything done by simply saying, "Move!". Uh, no! Plus, he came up against a CFO of a corporation, he should've been ready for a battle on that one. He didn't know that, obviously, but it's time to get used to the fact that women are leaving the kitchen. If it's against your religion, fine, but we'll still be out in the world no matter what you believe, so you should probably be polite before you piss off the wrong woman who will really do something about it. At least this lady said she'd be willing to move had she been asked.

[church_of_dog]

If he had taken appropriate responsibility for his own rules/wishes, he could have looked around and found someone sitting in a seat that would be acceptable to him and asked if they would mind trading seats with him. At least that way he's putting the burden on himself to find a solution instead of presenting it as if the woman was the problem.

Of course, as others have mentioned, he really ought to have dealt with this ahead of time by requesting a specific seating situation when he made his reservation.

[happy atheist]

I'd happily switch seats into First Class. Otherwise, get the fuck out of here.

[Wingnut]

I agree with all above and wonder who does he think he is by grunting "move" and waving his ticket at other passengers.

He cannot use a full and polite sentence with anyone.

[Walking Cat Bed]

What if the man he ended up sitting next to was Muslim? Gay? Transgendered? An overly zealous tele-evangelist? What if he was seated beside a three-year old little girl?

If it was so important that he not sit next to a female, that should have been taken care of BEFORE boarding the airplane.

Exactly. Buy two (or three) seats so nobody sits next to you. Not in a good section, either -- by the toilets. So nobody "accidentally" sits next to your jackass self.

("You" = guy in the article, not Free RV.)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

This is utterly ridiculous. I also found it surprising he thought he could get anything done by simply saying, "Move!". Uh, no! Plus, he came up against a CFO of a corporation, he should've been ready for a battle on that one. He didn't know that, obviously, but it's time to get used to the fact that women are leaving the kitchen. If it's against your religion, fine, but we'll still be out in the world no matter what you believe, so you should probably be polite before you piss off the wrong woman who will really do something about it. At least this lady said she'd be willing to move had she been asked.

I will rag on my kids if they say "move" in a crabby tone of voice to the dogs. I swear had this been me I'd have morphed into mommy mode and said, "excuse me, is this how we talk to people?"

What the HELL are these people so afraid will happen? Have any of you ever seen a woman in public so overcome with desire for a stranger that they can't keep their hands to themselves, so beside themselves with their erotic notions that they forget where they are and force men to violate their vows? This happening so often that whole belief systems need systemic policies in place to protect against it?

I wish everyone from this guy to Kirk Cameron to every other deluded soul buying into this would take note: If someone puts their hands on you in an unwelcome manner, sexual or not, there are already laws and social mores against that. You have recourse.

And if someone hits on you politely even if it was unwelcome...well, welcome to the world women have inhabited since we hit puberty. Say no and go back to your book, that's what we do.

[DarkAnts]

I would only move if it was to an equally good seat or better. The airlines make you pay for everything these days. You pay more for services and space. Most airlines now charge to more for passengers to sit in an exit row. Never mind that the passengers agree to preform specific duties in the event of an emergency.

[princessmahina]

How rude! If his beliefs forbid him from sitting next to someone, he has an obligation to purchase the seats immediately to his right and left so that he doesn't violate his principles. His right to religious freedom shouldn't infringe on our right to exist.

[FundieFarmer]

Frankly, if anyone spoke to me like that, I would look at them incredulously and burst out laughing. If you want to consciously choose to adopt that treatment as a committing adult (Michelle Duggar, Lori Alexander, ahem), that's your prerogative. But I will not allow anyone to speak to me like that, nor would I do so to others. I didn't agree to follow a rude, woman-hating religion, and I won't put up with it just because you did. If you don't want to sit by me because of religion, you can either buy me an upgrade, or move your own damn ass.

[Brittany15]

I would like give a lot of credit to the woman in this situation. She stayed calm and made sure her story was told. Often times in situations like this people freak out and the focus of the story turns to them and how they should have reacted, instead of the issue at hand. She is a good example for others.

[thoughtful]

I like this comment under the article:

Those with outdated beliefs should use modes of transportation that were available at the time their beliefs were relevant.

Ride a horse from NY to Toronto, fella!

Frankly, if anyone spoke to me like that, I would look at them incredulously and burst out laughing.

He didn't even speak to her:

Looking “bewildered,†Flynn said that the man “swivelled around to the gentleman across the aisle . . . and just said ‘change,’ †without acknowledging her.

So he was blurting out one-word orders to other men -- what a charmer.

If his fundie-dom was that powerful, he should have purchased two seats. Shomer negiah* is not Hebrew for "be an unreasonable asshole and make everyone else solve your problem."

* http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/shomer-negiah/

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negiah

[Idolatry]

I think there's a lot of misogyny in even entertaining this as a reasonable request. If you said you wouldn't sit next a person of whatever race, for whatever reason, everyone on the plane would be all over you and your video would be on Youtube in 15 minutes. I think you'd even get kicked off if you had an attitude about it.

I've never seen more than some eyerolls at this request, and every time people are willing to shuffle for these assholes. No one ever speaks up. Good for this woman.

Thankfully, I don't fly to NYC much anymore, and you don't see this much on flights to Dallas.

[Sundaymorning]

I think there's a lot of misogyny in even entertaining this as a reasonable request. If you said you wouldn't sit next a person of whatever race, for whatever reason, everyone on the plane would be all over you and your video would be on Youtube in 15 minutes. I think you'd even get kicked off if you had an attitude about it.

I've never seen more than some eyerolls at this request, and every time people are willing to shuffle for these assholes. No one ever speaks up. Good for this woman.

Thankfully, I don't fly to NYC much anymore, and you don't see this much on flights to Dallas.

I totally agree. And as others already said, if you really want to avoid to sit next to a woman/a man or whoever, you just have to buy and reserve the seats next to you. Problem solved. But demanding others to change places because of your personal values is just obnoxious.

[Jana814]

How rude! If his beliefs forbid him from sitting next to someone, he has an obligation to purchase the seats immediately to his right and left so that he doesn't violate his principles. His right to religious freedom shouldn't infringe on our right to exist.

Agree!

[OkToBeTakei]

Agree!

Here's the thing though, why does his right to religious freedom supersede society in general? I detest this and any other form of religion which fundamentally has no desire to co-exist with their fellow humans, all of them.

Religion aside this man is just an arrogant, rude human.

[Peas n carrots]

I think this guy is just an asshole using religion as a cover for his toolishness - kind of like a lot of patriarchs we talk about on FJ.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I mentioned this to my husband and he said there is no way he'd have ever changed seats to accommodate this guy, and then he hesitated and said he actually would if the woman would prefer that because she didn't want to sit next to the jerk all flight. Then he said he'd spend the rest of the flight being the most annoying seatmate this douche ever had. He was shocked that the airline even made the request - he'd have thought this would have been the same as refusing to sit next to someone of another race and regarding outrage and couldn't believe this kind of thing happens now.

[Grace]

It seems to me that this kind of religious issue could be fairly easily accommodate if the person would just POLITELY tell a flight attendant "I'm sorry for the inconvenience, but my faith dictates that I not touch a woman who is not my wife and I am afraid I might inadvertently touch a woman sitting next to me and I also don't want to offend by my efforts to be sure I follow my own guidelines during the flight. Would it be at all possible for one of us to trade seats with someone else?" It's still kind of icky but it puts the issue on that guy and not other people and it really wouldn't be that hard to switch. I've done it tons so people could sit next to someone in their own family.

[fun2beme]

Wasn't there a recent story where someone on a flight refused to sit next to a minority and caused a fuss about it? Flight attendant came back and said no one should have to tolerate this, and moved the minority passenger to first class. Loved that!