Homeschooling conference talks dealing with abuse

[freehannie]

I attended the Great Homeschool Convention in Cincinnati over the weekend and saw 2 speakers, David Gibbs III and Lisa Cherry, give talks on abuse within the homeschool movement. Gibbs was focused on various forms of child abuse while Cherry focused on sexual abuse. Both mentioned that high-profile cases of abuse within the community were going to be used as a means to regulate homeschooling if the community didn't do a better job of policing itself. Both went into signs of abuse and both encouraged reporting reasonable suspicions of abuse to the police, background checks on anyone working with children including those in co-ops, and teaching children appropriate boundaries. Gibbs also recommending reporting educational neglect as a form of abuse. Cherry also had an interesting observation that I haven't heard before, stating that homeschool girls are used to socializing with adults much older than themselves and are mature in many ways but haven't been taught how to deal with improper advances that some of these older men might make. Cherry also said that her daughters were too focused on being nice rather than maintaining healthy boundaries with people. And Cherry spent some time on how people like Gothard and Phillips got away with abuse for so long when clearly lots of people had suspicions but put them out their minds because they wanted to avoid conflict.

Overall, I found Cherry's discussion very helpful in that she clearly pointed out multiple times that victims of sexual abuse are never to blame, pointed out the ways in which homeschoolers have been naive about abuse and don't know enough about it to make good decisions, and focused on providing education and resources to change that. Gibbs unfortunately spent too much time talking about false accusations, which I thought made them seem far more common than they are and gave listeners room to doubt victims when they come forward. In fact, one audience member seemed worried about reporting something because it could ruin the life of the accused perpetrator and children often lie about these things. But Gibbs did at least acknowledge that some families abuse their own children while Cherry was much more focused on acquaintances outside the family as perpetrators. Yet Gibbs was very negative about CPS and social workers which again leads to under-reporting because people don't trust the authorities to handle the situation properly.

Some questions that I was left with:

1) Will the homeschooling movement change its rhetoric around CPS, social workers, and other governmental officials in order to encourage the reporting of abuse? Or does it need that negative rhetoric in order to bolster the cause of homeschooling?

2) Will the homeschooling movement be willing to reconsider absolute parental rights in order to ferret out abusers rather than face outside regulation? And without absolute parental rights how will homeschoolers justify some of their choices?

3) How can children learn to have healthy boundaries with people outside their family if they aren't allowed to have them inside their families? I'm thinking of the Penningtons, Duggars, etc. where obedience is mandatory, niceness is required at all times regardless of the situation, and anything else is considered sinful and selfish.

As an aside, Gibbs is clearly trying to position himself and his firm as an alternative to HSDLA, and I think has a shot at this. He's smart, gives better legal advice, is very folksy and funny, while also embracing the same homophobic and anti-government beliefs as many conservative Christian homeschoolers. If he at least is willing to acknowledge abuse within the movement and take steps to weed it out, he may be the lesser of two evils in comparison to Farris.

Thoughts?

[iknowright]

I attended the Great Homeschool Convention in Cincinnati over the weekend and saw 2 speakers, David Gibbs III and Lisa Cherry, give talks on abuse within the homeschool movement. Gibbs was focused on various forms of child abuse while Cherry focused on sexual abuse. Both mentioned that high-profile cases of abuse within the community were going to be used as a means to regulate homeschooling if the community didn't do a better job of policing itself. Both went into signs of abuse and both encouraged reporting reasonable suspicions of abuse to the police, background checks on anyone working with children including those in co-ops, and teaching children appropriate boundaries. Gibbs also recommending reporting educational neglect as a form of abuse. Cherry also had an interesting observation that I haven't heard before, stating that homeschool girls are used to socializing with adults much older than themselves and are mature in many ways but haven't been taught how to deal with improper advances that some of these older men might make. Cherry also said that her daughters were too focused on being nice rather than maintaining healthy boundaries with people. And Cherry spent some time on how people like Gothard and Phillips got away with abuse for so long when clearly lots of people had suspicions but put them out their minds because they wanted to avoid conflict.

Overall, I found Cherry's discussion very helpful in that she clearly pointed out multiple times that victims of sexual abuse are never to blame, pointed out the ways in which homeschoolers have been naive about abuse and don't know enough about it to make good decisions, and focused on providing education and resources to change that. Gibbs unfortunately spent too much time talking about false accusations, which I thought made them seem far more common than they are and gave listeners room to doubt victims when they come forward. In fact, one audience member seemed worried about reporting something because it could ruin the life of the accused perpetrator and children often lie about these things. But Gibbs did at least acknowledge that some families abuse their own children while Cherry was much more focused on acquaintances outside the family as perpetrators. Yet Gibbs was very negative about CPS and social workers which again leads to under-reporting because people don't trust the authorities to handle the situation properly.

Some questions that I was left with:

1) Will the homeschooling movement change its rhetoric around CPS, social workers, and other governmental officials in order to encourage the reporting of abuse? Or does it need that negative rhetoric in order to bolster the cause of homeschooling?

2) Will the homeschooling movement be willing to reconsider absolute parental rights in order to ferret out abusers rather than face outside regulation? And without absolute parental rights how will homeschoolers justify some of their choices?

3) How can children learn to have healthy boundaries with people outside their family if they aren't allowed to have them inside their families? I'm thinking of the Penningtons, Duggars, etc. where obedience is mandatory, niceness is required at all times regardless of the situation, and anything else is considered sinful and selfish.

As an aside, Gibbs is clearly trying to position himself and his firm as an alternative to HSDLA, and I think has a shot at this. He's smart, gives better legal advice, is very folksy and funny, while also embracing the same homophobic and anti-government beliefs as many conservative Christian homeschoolers. If he at least is willing to acknowledge abuse within the movement and take steps to weed it out, he may be the lesser of two evils in comparison to Farris.

Thoughts?

For those who lump all of the homeschooling world in to fundie ala Duggar style, Great Homeschool Convention offers tremendous workshops, speakers, and information for those who homeschool with the purpose of offering highly intellectual and effective education with the goals of helping families who want deeper and meaningful education for their students. Most definitely aspire for advanced degrees beyond high school. While there are Christian speakers, many are moderate and I think I remember they also offer speakers who are NOT young earth creationists.

Anyhoo, there already exists an alternative to HSLDA and I believe it is called HLA (Homeschool Legal Association)? Think I got that right. I don't think many moderate homeschoolers understand HSLDA is pretty fundie.

I'm glad this was addressed at this convention. It should have been long ago. But there really are false cases of reporting, so it's a catch 22. But I agree, if non-reporting of abuse continues, everyone will pay a price in the form of red tape and useless legislation that does nothing to the offenders but hurts the good ones.

[Palimpsest]

Excellent news. Thank you so much for the report. It sounds like a good presentation.

Both mentioned that high-profile cases of abuse within the community were going to be used as a means to regulate homeschooling if the community didn't do a better job of policing itself.

I already put this on another thread, but I think regulations are inevitable. Legislators are already looking into it. Of course, the wheels of government grind exceedingly slow and by the time the new regs are signed into law probably most of today's homeschoolers will be grandparents. Too many states - I think it is 26 but that may be out of date - don't even have educational neglect written into their Child Abuse regulations yet. Sorry, but education is a basic Human Right. For those states a first step is to amend the Child Abuse Statute and then they can get working on the homeschooling regs. Other states are moving more quickly.

I'm too lazy to write it out again it so I'll just quote myself:

[/bad People use the lack of regulation of homeschooling to hide horrendous child abuse. If Homeschoolers care at all about the victims of child abuse then they should want to help to protect them.

Complying with reasonable regulations should not be too onerous for Good People who are homeschooling properly. Instead of ranting against any and all regulations Good People who homeschool should actively work with legislators to help develop reasonable regulations. They are uniquely qualified to do so.

The following organizations have the right ideas (links not broken for obvious reasons)]

I don't get into the nitty-gritty of what the regs. should look like. I have never homeschooled and only know one homeschooling family (who are very conscientious and I know how hard they work at doing it well), Also one year of teaching elementary school in another country years ago doesn't qualify me to shoot my mouth off on the subject. :)

I do urge homeschoolers who do know what they are talking about to suggest regulations they can live with though.

[freehannie]

For those who lump all of the homeschooling world in to fundie ala Duggar style, Great Homeschool Convention offers tremendous workshops, speakers, and information for those who homeschool with the purpose of offering highly intellectual and effective education with the goals of helping families who want deeper and meaningful education for their students. Most definitely aspire for advanced degrees beyond high school. While there are Christian speakers, many are moderate and I think I remember they also offer speakers who are NOT young earth creationists.

Anyhoo, there already exists an alternative to HSLDA and I believe it is called HLA (Homeschool Legal Association)? Think I got that right. I don't think many moderate homeschoolers understand HSLDA is pretty fundie.

HLA is now part of NCLL where David Gibbs III is president. If I remember correctly Gibbs was the person who started or at least ran HLA.

As far as the Great Homeschool Convention, I agree that they have great education speakers and allow at least one old earth creationist speaker. At the same time, they also have people with pretty controversial and conservative views who speak on political and social topics. It's easy to avoid if you only go to the educational talks. I know that Homeschoolers Anonymous wanted to give a talk at the California conference about abuse but were not allowed. It is definitely a conservative Christian conference with a clearly defined statement of faith and there isn't that much deviation from that perspective.

[Extricated]

I'm glad it's being addressed, but I have a feeling it's just reactionary lip-service. Especially since Gibbs III is the one that was hired to try to silence the siblings and children of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine publishers when they came forward with abuse allegations about the publishers and friends of the publishers.

[formergothardite]

I'm glad it's being addressed, but I have a feeling it's just reactionary lip-service. Especially since Gibbs III is the one that was hired to try to silence the siblings and children of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine publishers when they came forward with abuse allegations about the publishers and friends of the publishers.

That is how I feel too. Until they allow someone like HA to come and speak about abuse and until they start actively trying to push for more regulations they are just trying make it look like they care while really doing nothing to protect homeschoolers who have been hurt by the lack of regulations. .

[Palimpsest]

That is how I feel too. Until they allow someone like HA to come and speak about abuse and until they start actively trying to push for more regulations they are just trying make it look like they care while really doing nothing to protect homeschoolers who have been hurt by the lack of regulations. .

I may be having a brain-fart but I can't interpret HA. Who is HA? Homeschoolers Anonymous?

I'm not a fan of Gibbs III. (Although I think/hope he may do a good job for Lourdes)

I have a feeling he talks the new and enlightened talk because he sees the way the tide is turning. He has reinvented himself recently as the defender of childrens' rights against the Patriarchy and apparently has split from Daddy. His record really does not impress me and I think he is following the $$$.

[formergothardite]

Yes I meant Homeschoolers Anonymous. A previous poster mentioned they wanted to talk at one homeschooling convention and was turned down. I think it is time for the homeschool community to realize that the abuse might not be as rare as they think and that something needs to be done about it.

[eri]

I'm very curious to see the statistics on abuse reporting for religion-based homeschooling versus secular homeschooling.

[Palimpsest]

Yes I meant Homeschoolers Anonymous. A previous poster mentioned they wanted to talk at one homeschooling convention and was turned down. I think it is time for the homeschool community to realize that the abuse might not be as rare as they think and that something needs to be done about it.

Preach it sister! to the bolded.

Thanks for the clarification on HA.

[Et Moi]

Yes I meant Homeschoolers Anonymous. A previous poster mentioned they wanted to talk at one homeschooling convention and was turned down. I think it is time for the homeschool community to realize that the abuse might not be as rare as they think and that something needs to be done about it.

It was the Great Homeschool Conventions event in California. They were initially invited to speak and then the word came from on high to disinvite them.

Also, Lisa Cherry who GHC had speak on abuse is seriously bad news. HA did a series about why they couldn't endorse the sexual abuse prevention week she put on. She believes in "soul ties" joining people with their abusers, thinks all gay people are sexual predators, and a bunch of other really dangerous ideas.

[Et Moi]

Ahh, found the link to the Lisa Cherry series, here's the introduction. She's not good at all.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpres ... roduction/

[Mama Mia]

I wonder what percentage of home schoolers do it for religious vs educational / social reasons? I would think it's probably difficult to seperate out - as I would assume for a fair number it's a combination. And you probably couldn't go strictly by participation in. Religious or secular homeschool groups - since part of that choice might be a function of geography. In my district run home school program I didn't know of anyone who did it for religious reasons - but that doesn't mean there weren't some.

Even curriculum would be difficult I think. I used a set of fundieish practical math workbooks I purchased from eBay, simply because they were the only ones that covered the life skills I needed for my kids at that time. And one child took a couple of online courses from Brigham Young, because they were free and on topics that fit.

[Columbia]

Both mentioned that high-profile cases of abuse within the community were going to be used as a means to regulate homeschooling if the community didn't do a better job of policing itself.

So that's their main concern. Not that children are dying, but that they might have to be regulated by an outside source.

[freehannie]

Thanks for the HA links on Lisa Cherry. I have to say when she spoke I had no idea how extreme her views were, but she did very clearly plug her books multiple times. Now knowing what those books say, I am really troubled. I hate to think of parents getting those books and using them to "help" a child who has been abused.

It seems like Cherry's version of abuse prevention brackets off some of the sources of abuse including patriarchy and purity culture. Also, she fails to separate serious forms of abuse from any deviance from her sexual standards and sees abuse as a form of spiritual warfare rather than acts of bad people. I fail to see how anyone who takes abuse seriously would close off certain ideological tenants from scrutiny, particularly when it's pretty clear that they create an environment where abuse is more likely.

After reading those links, I have serious doubts about the conservative Christian homeschooling community's ability to police itself when it comes to child abuse particularly if certain topics are going to remain off limits. I would assume that the reason the HA wasn't permitted to speak at the Great Homeschool Convention in CA is because they were going to discuss these topics and recommend outside regulation.

[Et Moi]

Thanks for the HA links on Lisa Cherry. I have to say when she spoke I had no idea how extreme her views were, but she did very clearly plug her books multiple times. Now knowing what those books say, I am really troubled. I hate to think of parents getting those books and using them to "help" a child who has been abused.

It seems like Cherry's version of abuse prevention brackets off some of the sources of abuse including patriarchy and purity culture. Also, she fails to separate serious forms of abuse from any deviance from her sexual standards and sees abuse as a form of spiritual warfare rather than acts of bad people. I fail to see how anyone who takes abuse seriously would close off certain ideological tenants from scrutiny, particularly when it's pretty clear that they create an environment where abuse is more likely.

After reading those links, I have serious doubts about the conservative Christian homeschooling community's ability to police itself when it comes to child abuse particularly if certain topics are going to remain off limits. I would assume that the reason the HA wasn't permitted to speak at the Great Homeschool Convention in CA is because they were going to discuss these topics and recommend outside regulation.

Here's the talk that R.L. Stollar would have given at the GHC convention if HA hadn't gotten disinvited.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpres ... schooling/

It doesn't advocate additional outside regulations, it's trying to educate parents about the problems, how to identify them, and to encourage them to self-police and report abuse.

Gibbs III and Lisa Cherry being invited to speak lets GHC pretend they're doing something to educate the community so now they have an excuse for keeping out other voices. If they were serious about this they would have invited Boz Tchividjian from GRACE to speak, but instead they brought in the people whose primary interest is protecting the homeschool community and not the kids in that community.

[nelliebelle1197]

I wanted to resurrect this in light of Josh Duggar with a link to Stollar's article from October:

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpres ... -cover-up/