"Born in the Wild"- new Lifetime reality show

[paintergurl]

Has anyone seen the new Lifetime reality show , "Born in the Wild"? I believe it's on tonight (Tuesday) having premiered last Tuesday. It features women who choose to give birth outside in the wilderness, far away from medical facilities, sometimes without even a midwife or doula present. Apparently, they believe that modern medicine ruins the experience of birth. One woman said she wanted to experience the birth of her child in a more primal way.

I saw the premiere episode last Tuesday and I honestly could not believe that anyone would think that giving birth on a beach, on a remote island in Alaska, hundreds of miles from the closest doctor or hospital, with only her husband there to help, was a fantastic idea. I was frightened watching it.

[Jana814]

I haven't watched the show & I don't plan to. Just the idea of doing that makes me cringe.

[polecat]

Has anyone seen the new Lifetime reality show , "Born in the Wild"? I believe it's on tonight (Tuesday) having premiered last Tuesday. It features women who choose to give birth outside in the wilderness, far away from medical facilities, sometimes without even a midwife or doula present. Apparently, they believe that modern medicine ruins the experience of birth. One woman said she wanted to experience the birth of her child in a more primal way.

I saw the premiere episode last Tuesday and I honestly could not believe that anyone would think that giving birth on a beach, on a remote island in Alaska, hundreds of miles from the closest doctor or hospital, with only her husband there to help, was a fantastic idea. I was frightened watching it.

I know I'm in the minority before I even comment, but while this is absolutely not something I'd try, how a woman gives birth is entirely her business. I was a woman who had her choice taken away during childbirth, and it's a demeaning experience in which you feel utterly powerless. I'm always astounded at the number of women (some men, too), who champion a woman's right to choose ... right up until she is ready to deliver. Then it's "Do what the doctor/midwife/nurse/guy on the late show tells you to do. It's best for the baby."

Oh, and ...

http://jezebel.com/you-dont-get-to-have ... ign=buffer

[Firiel]

I was pretty much raging when I was watching the preview. Apparently, these women think that modern technology ruins the birth experience. OH EXCEPT IF IT'S A BUNCH OF CAMERAS AND PRODUCTION EQUIPMENT. That seems super hypocritical and fake to me. And I also kind of doubt there aren't doctors on hand for liability reasons. Someone who knows more can let me know, but couldn't they get the crap sued out of them by family if something were to happen? I have a hard time believing there aren't doctors on site which makes the stupid show even more hypocritical.

As for not having an opinion about how women give birth, I will have to disagree with that. I'm not sure how popular this view will be, but by the time a woman is full-term, I do think her child is a person, even if it's inside of her still. After all, she could have given birth at 36 weeks. I don't see much of a difference between an early baby who is a week old and full-term baby who is still in the womb. Thus, to me, it's a case of "your right to swing your fist ends at someone else's face." I wouldn't necessarily support laws to dictate that because of the precedent it would set, but you bet I'll have opinions.

[paintergurl]

"I know I'm in the minority before I even comment, but while this is absolutely not something I'd try, how a woman gives birth is entirely her business. I was a woman who had her choice taken away during childbirth, and it's a demeaning experience in which you feel utterly powerless. I'm always astounded at the number of women (some men, too), who champion a woman's right to choose ... right up until she is ready to deliver. Then it's "Do what the doctor/midwife/nurse/guy on the late show tells you to do. It's best for the baby."

I absolutely believe it is a woman's right to decide how to treat her pregnancy and birth experience. However, I question why a woman would choose such a primitive, anti-modern medicine approach that would preclude any intervention should the birth get into trouble or if the baby's health, and even survival, became comprimised.

After watching the first woman, it occurred to me that the ones most benefitting from this glorious, primal experience, was the mother, perhaps the father. Not so much the newborn, who just wants to be born healthy and alive. Being born on an Alaskan beach, with a beautiful view of pristine mountains, is probably not most important.

[August]

I know I'm in the minority before I even comment, but while this is absolutely not something I'd try, how a woman gives birth is entirely her business. I was a woman who had her choice taken away during childbirth, and it's a demeaning experience in which you feel utterly powerless. I'm always astounded at the number of women (some men, too), who champion a woman's right to choose ... right up until she is ready to deliver. Then it's "Do what the doctor/midwife/nurse/guy on the late show tells you to do. It's best for the baby."

Oh, and ...

http://jezebel.com/you-dont-get-to-have ... ign=buffer

That is not what this is. There is compassionate, responsive birth care, and there are selfish, self-indulgent bitches who throw their babies' lives away. These women aren't normal, they're not concerned for their baby and their body, they care zero percent for their baby. I know that sounds ludicrous, but go and read their own words, at places like mothering or joyous birth. They are not you and I, only a little more nervous of a bitchy nurse or controlling OB, they are neglectful and bad people.

Once you've made the decision to have a baby it's part of your parental job to make sure there are reasonable safeguards in place, like a person with resus training and oxygen on hand, some way to keep an eye on how the baby's coping with contractions and a place to transfer if needed.

[keen23]

There's a blog I read on the regular. The writer is a bit wacky, but not too much to snark on. But she did give birth in her yard, with her kids, her friends, and her friend's kids all running around.

The blog post about the birth: o-scientist.blogspot.com/2004/06/perfect-birthshe-is-here-and-what.html

I think that part of becoming a parent means that it's no longer all about you. At some point you have to make decisions that might not be 100% exactly what you want, but what's best for the greater good. Even if it means you don't get to have your "perfect" birth.

[Firiel]

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/06/04/bi ... ity-debate

The Lifetime series is taking precautions to help ensure the safety of the mother and child. No first-time mothers will be allowed to participate on the show and all participants will have a clean bill of health. A trained emergency professional will be on site. And while the couple will choose the birthing location, the production will remain within a certain radius of a hospital should complications arise. “I’m not surprised an OB-GYN would say that [but] we’re taking extreme precautions to make sure the mothers and the babies are safe,†says Eli Lehrer, Lifetime’s senior VP and head of nonfiction programming. “Our presence at these births is going to make them far safer than if they were doing it on their own.â€

Good for the babies that these professionals are in place, but I think that means the show is exalting a false ideal that the show itself refuses to reach for. It romanticizes "natural" child birth to the extreme of giving birth in isolated, wilderness areas, but the mothers aren't even doing that. It's irresponsible. And, sorry, if you are filming your childbirth for the nation to see, that's not natural either. These women are taking advantage of their privilege to get what they want with fewer consequences (having a wild birth that is less unsafe [sorry for the double negative!] than it could be) while promoting it as the ideal to women who do NOT have the opportunity to have a less unsafe wild birth.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I fast forwarded through most of it because they created so much false drama. I suspect it's fake along the lines of breaking Amish. I personally would want to be near a hospital so I could transfer if needed but what they're doing doesnt really bother me. I didn't understand why she wanted to be in the tent instead of her house which was right there.

[nelliebelle1197]

I saw the commercials and thought it was Lifetime movie about some women trapped in Deliverance.

You know, this is about choice. Women choose to give have a child. It is then her responsibility to make sure that child is safe for the next 18 or so years, including in utero and at birth. It's not about a "birth experience", it about being a responsible parent.

Jump me if you want but these kind of people remind me of couples who spend $75,000 on a wedding and think nothing about the MARRIAGE. A wedding is about a marriage, not the bride. A birth is about a child, not the mother. That is the first thing you learn when you parent. If you don't get that, reconsider your choices.

[Grimalkin]

This irks me too. Not against homebirths, but this seems just irresponsible. I take it slightly personally because I was a healthy 23 yearold when I had my first baby, there was no indication anything would go wrong with the my daughter's birth and it did. My baby was born blue and not breathing and without the highly trained staff around she would not of made it, or had brain damage.

[polecat]

... A birth is about a child, not the mother. That is the first thing you learn when you parent. If you don't get that, reconsider your choices.

So the woman doesn't matter at all? Not even a little bit?

I strongly disagree. I never thought I'd even have one child much less three, so each birth was truly a miracle in my mind. A healthy baby matters and -- for me -- was the most important thing in my birth experiences -- it was more than I'd ever dreamed of having, for god's sake! But a physically and emotionally healthy mom matters, too. The baby is not the only person in the room. The mother is there, too, and she matters.

Instead of telling women they don't matter during their birth experiences (which for many of us, that birth experience is going to be a defining moment in our lives), maybe we could start telling them that birth is unpredictable. That we can make all the birth plans in the world, but nature is still going to have its say. That they are allowed to want whatever it is they want, but that they should also be prepared to have those hopes and dreams dashed. That having a backup plan in place to deal with the disappointment (or even grief, in some cases) of a perhaps negative birth experience is a good idea. That in the end, a physically and emotionally healthy baby and mom are the ultimate goals.

Maybe some compassion is in order.

(And no, I don't think that giving birth in the wild is a safe or healthy choice and is quite capable of leaving both mom and baby damaged or dead -- but instead of damning women opting for UC, I think we need to educate more people about why women matter during birth. Then maybe they'd be less likely to make risky or dangerous choices. Kind of like educating people on why abortion should remain safe and accessible -- so that women are less likely to turn to coat hangers or knitting needles. As for women who prostitute their birth experiences on TV, that's something else entirely and I'm not even going to try to wade into that shitstorm.)

[ghost]

So the woman doesn't matter at all? Not even a little bit?

I strongly disagree. I never thought I'd even have one child much less three, so each birth was truly a miracle in my mind. A healthy baby matters and -- for me -- was the most important thing in my birth experiences -- it was more than I'd ever dreamed of having, for god's sake! But a physically and emotionally healthy mom matters, too. The baby is not the only person in the room. The mother is there, too, and she matters.

Instead of telling women they don't matter during their birth experiences (which for many of us, that birth experience is going to be a defining moment in our lives), maybe we could start telling them that birth is unpredictable. That we can make all the birth plans in the world, but nature is still going to have its say. That they are allowed to want whatever it is they want, but that they should also be prepared to have those hopes and dreams dashed. That having a backup plan in place to deal with the disappointment (or even grief, in some cases) of a perhaps negative birth experience is a good idea. That in the end, a physically and emotionally healthy baby and mom are the ultimate goals.

Maybe some compassion is in order.

(And no, I don't think that giving birth in the wild is a safe or healthy choice and is quite capable of leaving both mom and baby damaged or dead -- but instead of damning women opting for UC, I think we need to educate more people about why women matter during birth. Then maybe they'd be less likely to make risky or dangerous choices. Kind of like educating people on why abortion should remain safe and accessible -- so that women are less likely to turn to coat hangers or knitting needles. As for women who prostitute their birth experiences on TV, that's something else entirely and I'm not even going to try to wade into that shitstorm.)

Thank you, well said. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[ariel9]

What I basically understand from paraphrasing the commercials saying "we don't know if hospitals are safe or if home birth are unsafe but were going with an options that just about anyone with a wee bit of common sense knows isn't safe". I mean what if that boat flipped in the first episode, what about the mosquitoes,bears, or leeches. Like yes things can go right but what if they don't. Birth is a tricky thing and won't always go as planned.

[shedemei]

I saw the premiere episode last Tuesday and I honestly could not believe that anyone would think that giving birth on a beach, on a remote island in Alaska, hundreds of miles from the closest doctor or hospital, with only her husband there to help, was a fantastic idea. I was frightened watching it.

I think everyone on FJ knows how real I think these shows are so I doubt this actually happened, but if it did OMG the SAND!!! It gets everywhere. That baby would likely have been freaking covered in it. Welcome to the world, kid. It's a gritty and irritating place.

[nataraja]

How many among you who are judging these women have actually any knowledge of why they decided to birth their child in the wildness?

If I were pregnant I would also want to give birth in the nature (with a midwife present though) because there is something special about nature. When I am in nature I feel like I am surrounded by good vibes, nature fosters my soul and I assume that it can also give streangth to you on a certain level.

And my feelings are just telling me that nature is a good place to birth a child.

Now I'm waiting for the shitstorm.

[Firiel]

How many among you who are judging these women have actually any knowledge of why they decided to birth their child in the wildness?

If I were pregnant I would also want to give birth in the nature (with a midwife present though) because there is something special about nature. When I am in nature I feel like I am surrounded by good vibes, nature fosters my soul and I assume that it can also give streangth to you on a certain level.

And my feelings are just telling me that nature is a good place to birth a child.

Now I'm waiting for the shitstorm.

I don't think "why" matters because I don't think intent matters. Someone can put their child in danger without that being their intention. I think giving birth without options for emergency care on-hand/nearby puts a child in danger, whether that is the intent or not.

And I think what these women are doing is dishonest because it glorifies the idea of a natural, wild birth with no assistance to the public while, behind the scenes, it's anything but a wild birth due to the emergency professionals nearby (which I am ultimately thankful for because of the babies) and the cameras up in everyone's business. These women are peddling an ideal (one that they are not even actually choosing for themselves!), not simply making a personal decision.

[Dandruff]

I haven't seen this show but I hope there are medical personnel nearby (but not, of course, visible), just in case. This situation seems different to me than people who are filmed free-climbing, or tightrope-walking, or voluntarily doing other very risky things. There's a baby involved. Would a production company really be willing to to film and air a birth that ended badly but could have turned out OK with emergency treatment?

[August]

How many among you who are judging these women have actually any knowledge of why they decided to birth their child in the wildness?

If I were pregnant I would also want to give birth in the nature (with a midwife present though) because there is something special about nature. When I am in nature I feel like I am surrounded by good vibes, nature fosters my soul and I assume that it can also give streangth to you on a certain level.

And my feelings are just telling me that nature is a good place to birth a child.

Now I'm waiting for the shitstorm.

What Firiel said, but also, are you going to go hours from any facility which can do a c-section, or transfuse you, or intubate the baby, or are you going to give birth in a garden with a nurse midwife. Because if not, then you're just trying to pick a fight. No one here is dissing nature (well except for arsenic, uranium and cancer... those parts of nature can go fuck themselves), we're dissing mothers who reject even the minimum of safety for their baby.

[happy atheist]

This reminds me of Sparkling Lauren who chose to "free birth" at a Rainbow Family gathering at a site that was cut off from assistance by a flooding river. She was warned that water levels were rising, and most of the encampment chose to evacuate. Lauren chose to stay and coerce relative strangers into helping her through her birth, while stranded in a giant mud pit during continuing rain. After receiving zero prenatal care. :cray-cray:

[Maggie Mae]

I probably wouldn't do it, but I would not support anyone telling these women that they aren't smart enough to make their own decisions about childbirth. It's her body, her life, her subsidized tv show. Once that baby is here, she'll have enough people trying to make decisions for her, criticizing every thing she does as not enough, or too much, or not good enough. If she tries to foster independence in her child, someone will call CPS and tell her she needs to supervise 24/7 until the child is 18. If she goes for helicopter parenting or tiger mom style, she'll be criticized for that as well. If the dad is watching the kid, he'll be babysitting and treated like he's so amazing, if she's watching the child, it's parenting and not being done right. If she doesn't want dad to watch the child, she'll be criticized . She'll be criticized for losing the baby weight. She'll be criticized for not losing the baby weight.

Also I want to know where Audrey gave birth. I found her home location, but it's not an island.

Oh, and sometimes medical emergencies happen and people aren't near a hospital. It happens. We can't reduce or remove all risks in this world. Are preventable injuries sad? Yes. And while I understand the argument about how whatever happens isn't the child's fault, it's not acceptable for me to put a potential human before the existing human. And treating mom like an incubator with no say in the birth process is unacceptable to me. Maybe education will help - explaining all the risks and why a birth center or a midwife would be a better option. Wasn't Audrey a midwife? How does that work when you are your own midwife? I wonder if my gym gets Discovery, and if it will be on repeat soon. I so rarely actually want to watch TV, but this sounds interesting.

[Joyleaf]

The thing is that giving birth is risky. And we would be stupid if we forgot that.

Even if you don't give birth alone in the wild but just choose to have a homebirth with a midwife you're increasing the risk of your child dying by a significant factor.

Here are two blog posts by Dr. Tuteur who openly and (with a lot of snark) opposes homebirth:

skepticalob.com/2014/01/homebirth-midwives-reveal-death-rate-450-higher-than-hospital-birth-announce-that-it-shows-homebirth-is-safe.html

skepticalob.com/2013/10/oregon-attempts-to-bury-dead-homebirth-babies-twice.html

Well, and it's increasing the risk for the mother as well, of course:

skepticalob.com/2014/12/she-trusted-birth-and-it-killed-her-now-her-children-will-pay-the-price.html

We need to improve hospital births so that less women feel that they have a better "experience" giving birth outside of hospitals. And we need to raise awareness that they risk their own life and that of their child if they still decide to do so.

(If it is not OK to link to one blog so many times, please delete it!)

[paintergurl]

Also I want to know where Audrey gave birth. I found her home location, but it's not an island.

Oh, and sometimes medical emergencies happen and people aren't near a hospital. It happens. We can't reduce or remove all risks in this world. Are preventable injuries sad? Yes. And while I understand the argument about how whatever happens isn't the child's fault, it's not acceptable for me to put a potential human before the existing human. And treating mom like an incubator with no say in the birth process is unacceptable to me. Maybe education will help - explaining all the risks and why a birth center or a midwife would be a better option. Wasn't Audrey a midwife? How does that work when you are your own midwife? I wonder if my gym gets Discovery, and if it will be on repeat soon. I so rarely actually want to watch TV, but this sounds interesting.

Audrey and her family seemed to be living in a very remote place in Alaska. It was off the grid. Her mother and sister travelled a long way on a small plane, then across a lake on a small canoe w a motor, during a bad storm. Audrey did say she was a trained midwife. But at one point her labor was not progressing as she thought it should, and she could no longer feel the baby moving. It seemed she was getting scared (I know I was terrified watching her!). She realized the baby was facing the wrong direction.

Lifetime is repeating the Alaskan episode. But it's at odd times - 3 am tonight and Sunday afternoon.

[Firiel]

Oh, and sometimes medical emergencies happen and people aren't near a hospital. It happens. We can't reduce or remove all risks in this world. Are preventable injuries sad? Yes. And while I understand the argument about how whatever happens isn't the child's fault, it's not acceptable for me to put a potential human before the existing human. And treating mom like an incubator with no say in the birth process is unacceptable to me. Maybe education will help - explaining all the risks and why a birth center or a midwife would be a better option. Wasn't Audrey a midwife? How does that work when you are your own midwife? I wonder if my gym gets Discovery, and if it will be on repeat soon. I so rarely actually want to watch TV, but this sounds interesting.

From a different thread here:

Enough said. [attachment=0]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1425835305.470302.jpg[/attachment][attachment=1]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1425835324.271654.jpg[/attachment]

Sorry, the "preventable injuries are a bummer!" line just reminds me too much of the anti-vaccination argument.

And if we can snark on Lazy Lyndsie for adopting too soon after cancer and risking leaving her children without a mother, we can snark on women who make dangerous, irresponsible choices in child-birth and risk leaving their children without a mother.

EDIT: Dammit, photo didn't work in the quote. If anyone is curious, it's on the Stupid Shit on Facebook page and says that death by natural disease is sad, but it's natural so no vaccines.

[Maggie Mae]

Also I want to know where Audrey gave birth. I found her home location, but it's not an island.

Oh, and sometimes medical emergencies happen and people aren't near a hospital. It happens. We can't reduce or remove all risks in this world. Are preventable injuries sad? Yes. And while I understand the argument about how whatever happens isn't the child's fault, it's not acceptable for me to put a potential human before the existing human. And treating mom like an incubator with no say in the birth process is unacceptable to me. Maybe education will help - explaining all the risks and why a birth center or a midwife would be a better option. Wasn't Audrey a midwife? How does that work when you are your own midwife? I wonder if my gym gets Discovery, and if it will be on repeat soon. I so rarely actually want to watch TV, but this sounds interesting.

Audrey and her family seemed to be living in a very remote place in Alaska. It was off the grid. Her mother and sister travelled a long way on a small plane, then across a lake on a small canoe w a motor, during a bad storm. Audrey did say she was a trained midwife. But at one point her labor was not progressing as she thought it should, and she could no longer feel the baby moving. It seemed she was getting scared (I know I was terrified watching her!). She realized the baby was facing the wrong direction.

Lifetime is repeating the Alaskan episode. But it's at odd times - 3 am tonight and Sunday afternoon.

Alaska TV shows have a tendency to make everyone "off grid" even when they aren't. Looks like she normally lives in Talkeetna, which is road system, if a bit of a drive to the hospital.