Did the "good girl" bit backfire on you?

[Hane]

Because it did on me. As an Italian-Catholic teenager in the late '60s, I was told that only sluts had premarital sex, that unwed pregnancy was the worst thing that could happen to a young woman, that no man respected a single woman who was sexually active, that every man wanted to marry a virgin, and that maintaining virginity until marriage would protect me from all heartache. (My mom even gave me a little poem she wrote, which ended, "If you keep your virtue/None can hurt you." She also wouldn't allow me to live away at college, and said that girls who had their own apartments before marriage were "hanging a red light in the window.")

So I toed the "party line," and I still wound up a twenty-six-year-old divorcee with a year-old baby. (Thank God my parents were modern enough to believe a girl should have a college education and be able to support herself.)

My cousin was raised similarly, and was the family success story: married to a successful businessman, big gorgeous house--but wound up divorced at 60, after 40 years of marriage, when he went off the deep end, committed massive fraud, and landed in jail for what will probably be the rest of his life. Like me, she had an education and some job skills (from helping him run his business), but had never been self-supporting in her life and had to start fresh at an age when most people are considering retirement.

Any other victims of the Magic Virginity myth?

[emmyfair]

I played that game - Catholic at the time as well. I was mouthy and wild, and scared silly by the gossip I listened to after Mass about the girls who had "dropped their petals" before marriage and totally ruined their lives. I've told this part of my story before, so the reader's digest version is I was raped and very nearly murdered. After, when I told my parish priest, I was informed that because I was no longer pure, I was not marriage material and should become a nun or something similar - a cloistered (sp?) religious life was all that was left for me.

I tell you, that was a kick in the knickers.

Needless to say, I didn't listen - I'm good at that! - and carried on with my life and recovery. I think the whole magic virginity myth is just that - a myth, and it failed me in a miserable and very painful way. I played the good girl and "waited" for a rapist? Such total bullshit.

[Guest Anonymous]

Polish Catholic raised in the 50's. White gloves, holy communion the whole nine yards. Fucking like a bunny at 16 :dance: Very careful about contraception (condoms) Italian American RC boyfriend. My parents disowned me several times in my life and I lived under the threats of getting sent off to the Magdalenes. Some girls I went to school with disappeared into the the Maggies never to return, a few survived so wounded, they could no longer function. I left at 18 for college in 1969...Didn't have a child until I was 35.

It took me years of therapy to get over that shit. But at 60 I think its never too late to have a happy childhood.

[emmyfair]

But at 60 I think its never too late to have a happy childhood.

You are my hero!!! :D

[Lillybee]

Irish Polish Catholic girl here, like some of you came of age in the 60's. One of my biggest regrets is that I refused to have sex with the guy whose touch would make me tremble. I never felt the same about another so that was a missed opportunity.

Emmy, I am so sorry about what you went through. That priest, may he spend the rest of eternity roasting in hell. That was a horrible thing to say. Did he expect you to be another Maria Gioretti?

[FloraDoraDolly]

I was a teen in the late 1980s with no religion in my family. My high school was very much of the "everybody is doing it and there's something wrong with you if you're not" variety. I was very much a late bloomer, so I felt A LOT of pressure to do things I was in no way ready for, physically or emotionally. Fortunately, I was able to recognize peer pressure for what it was. Plus, I'd seen "Little Darlings" when I was eleven and I figured a lot of the kids in school were lying about their sexual experiences, just like the girls in the film. But some of my friends really did become sexually active when they were very young and they had the babies to prove it. Now they're all grandmothers.

[Shirley MacLaine]

No; I can't remember my parents ever directly talking to me about sex (too repressed for that!). We had a big fight when they discovered I wasn't a virgin after reading my diary (I was fifteen), and it was pretty much a shitshow but since then I don't think they've expected me to be 'good' in that way. And now I'm in my 20s and unmarried with boyfriends and I assume they know I have sex.

But my best friend from childhood fell into this pretty hard. We're the same age, but she's now divorced and dealing with the aftermath of being abused by her ex-husband. Sooooo. Fuck that.

[maybeizfundie]

No.

Although, while my parents taught sexual restraint, and saving sex for marriage, they never fully bought into the cult attitude towards sex, nor some of the more wild fundie thinking about it. And definitely didn't take a Magic Virginity attitude, nor was "saving" sex only a girl-thing. So maybe it was them being a little outside of the norm that kept me from the crazy. :D I have a sister who had a baby before marriage and they certainly didn't disown her or reject her or any of that kind of garbage. Nor do they consider her "impure" or permanently sullied. They disagreed with her actions that resulted in the baby, but they love them both a great deal.

Dh and I are each other's "first and only" and we are both happy with that.

[Antigone]

Oh hell yes. :) I never really was interested in sex or anything involving an intimate relationship until I met hubby. 5 months later, Sevy surprised us. We did get married about 2 weeks before she was born, though. I still wish though, that we had more of a transistion period between being married and being parents, but oh well, that's how the cookie crumbles, and I certainly do not regret Sevy.

My mother bless her heart still thinks hubby was my first (no, I had a few one night stands simply because i wanted not to be a virgin anymore... lol). I still let her think that, because otherwise it would mean breaking her heart.

Also, I have the look of the "schoolgirl next door" which somehow...annoys me to the depths of hell. I can't pull off the "alt" look as much as i want to (tattoos, piercings, clothes, etc) because somehow.. people go, "oh my god, you're so CUTE" whenever I go out (not everywhere, but feels like it). I swear, I want to stab the next person who calls me cute (which will be hubby, I'm sure of it).

Sorry for the rant, in a bad mood this morning. At least on the upside, I will age well. I still look like I'm in my teens, which can be nice sometimes, especially when it creeps out my MIL. :) lol.

[clownprincess]

I am living in the middle of it...I think. I mentioned back on yuku when I first joined that I'm a twentysomething currently in the process of reassessing what I've been taught on gender and sexuality so far, trying to figure out what my faith really teaches and what was merely a good idea that was taken to its extremes (I Kissed Dating Goodbye with a good heaping dose of traditional Catholic doctrine on the matter). I do identify myself as a Christian, so it's quite difficult shedding some of the ideas I now think are not exactly biblical; there's always that fear of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, at least for me. But it's very freeing to embrace the notion that in life I should depend on Christ alone and not the formula. :)

Some things I've changed my mind about:

1) That "pieces of your heart" thing...man, was that hard to let go of. I just broke up with my one and only boyfriend so far because even though we've been talking about marriage and all, I felt that we both had a lot of characteristics that could spell trouble for us down the road. When we broke up I said I was open to getting back together with him once we've matured a lot more, but not anytime soon. To be honest, I really want to experience a real romantic relationship for once, because what I've had so far was "illegal" in the sense me and the ex weren't ready to get married yet, so a good chunk of our time together was spent in hiding the relationship (not sitting together at church, not breathing a word about him in ladies' groups, etc.). I don't think it caused the breakup per se; what I regret was not being able to thoroughly enjoy the "honeymoon" stage of our relationship because we felt we always had to watch our backs.

So now I'm single again, and to be honest i don't know what it's like to be with another man, or if I'm even ready to. I just want to feel that "butterflies in my tummy" feeling again.^_^

2) What does "purity" mean really? Is it really just about not having anything to do with sex at all, when it's such a significant aspect of one's humanity? There's also purity in spirit, you know, having a heart free of bitterness and all that. What ticks me off now is the idea prevalent in fundie circles that the loss of one's virginity outside of wedlock is catastrophic. Sure, fornication is a sin according to Scripture, but so is pride, bitterness, gluttony, etc - it's a sin, but not worse than others. What did CS Lewis say, that it's much better to be a prostitute than a cold, self-righteous prig? The fetishization (sp?) of virginity and purity is starting to seem really wrong to me.

3) Finally, I'm beginning to think that *cough* maybe masturbation isn't that bad at all. :eusa-shifty: I struggle a lot with this (I'd love to know reasons not to - can't find much of that around me right now I'm afraid). I think learning how one's body works will help one have a healthy sex life later on. Um, ok. I just blushed writing that. *le sigh*

Sorry for the overly long post - I just feel like I've got so much to share on the matter because being the "good girl" is what I've been raised to become all my life, and by reevaluating what that "good girl" life means and entails I think I've just dodged a bullet there. Honestly, FJ has helped me understand that the "good girl" life can turn out pretty badly. Thanks! :dance:

- not quite a "good girl" anymore :p

[mnb357]

I never really had the chance to play the "good girl." College was expected, and it would have been the ultimate humiliation to have lived at home for more than the job-seeking summer after my senior year. I knew I'd be booted out the door, so I sort of partied a lot in college, before real world took over, thinking that was what fun was about. As a single woman, living in an apartment, working full time, I was too doggone tired at the end of the work day to do much more than pick up my dry cleaning on the way home from the subway station, cook dinner, paint my nails, and read the newspaper before bed. Now THOSE were fun times.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Raised Jewish in the 70's. My parents pretended to be modern and liberal. However...

I was taught that no one would buy the cow if you gave the milk away. My parents were very invasive and paranoid that I would break the rules. I was told that I had privact, but I did not. I attempted to live a normal adolescence in the 1970's, which was actually pretty much sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. My parents naivete kept me ahead of them most of the time. But when they became suspicious that I was experimenting with boys, they called me terrible names. They found me completely out of control. On sexuality, they never really actually caught me, but oftne said that I had "hot pants" and was getting abad reputation. Both of my parents insisted that no man would ever want to marry me. They did find out that I smoked pot. They thought I was a degenerate drug addict. This was all despite the fact that I had a strict curfew and was not permitted to sleep over or go away with any of my peers. I also was not sent to camp in the summer for fear that I would have opportunity to experiment with peers.

That said, I was an honor student from Junior High through high school. I dated only Jewish boys. While I did have sex and I did dabble with pot, I never did harder drugs or break their curfew rules. They were still totally certain that I was a girl with a bad reputation.

I lived at home and commuted to college. Because I lived on the outskirts of a major city, I did go to a large University...by bus and train. My parents were so protective, but allowed me to travel by public tranportation at 6:00 am into the worst areas of one of the 5 largest cities in the country. Go figure.

When I fell in love with a young man who was Catholic and decided to go to Med school far away to be ear him, they disowned me. I mean, Jewish mourning as if I was dead. My parents actually tore their clothing in front of me as I left to symbolize the seriousness of their cutting me from their lives. After I left, they attended "Tough Love" meetings. I am past 50 years old. TO THIS DAY, they consider this as the time I RAN AWAY FROM HOME. Understand, I left to follow my Catholic boyfriend who was in Medical School to also go to Medical School. I was 21 years old. I had a college degree and I had a scholarship to pay for school from the USAF. They have no concept to this day that this is called growing up...not running away.

Despite that, I eventually broke up with one of the finest people I ever met in order to get back in the good graces of my family. I married a Jewish man and had three wonderful children. What no one knew but me, was that he was abusive. When my children were displaying severe distress at the repeated rages of my husband, I made the decision to leave. It was my education that both sustained me and hurt me thorugh that process. I was a practicing physician, but found that my divorced status was suspect to my family. My parents simply confirmed their minds that I was a deeply troubled woman.

My parents found the dating practices of divorced and adults past 30 to be overwhelming. They were nice to me in that pitiful way one is nice to a "fallen Woman" who has suffered from their fall.

I married again. Again I chose a different kind of abuser. This one cheated sexually and financially. My ego structure collapsed. My family continued to drum home the message tht all of these things happened due to my fallen status.

At 46, I once again left an abusive marriage. My parents are still horrified by the fact that I have had 2 relationships with men and that I occasionally had them stay the night or I would go on a vacation with them. THey continue to this day to repeat their belief that I am a deeply troubled and fallen woman.

Now I am past 50. Through all of my troubles, I continued with my career and gained more gravitas in my profession. I have been able to finally determine the reason I was unable to choose a man who treated me well and respected me as a person. Many of my friends were far more sexually active and did far more drugs than I did, and yet were able to sustain happy marriages. My problem is that I had parents who taught me that love was control, constant critisism, and chronic mistrust. I was taught that I was a fallen woman. I was taught that I was unworthy of love and respect. THAT is why I chose abusive men. My parents, particularly my mother, continue to try to drum this message of disapproval at me. It still gets to me. But now I can step away and let it be THEIR issue, not mine. My beautiful children were not raised in a judgemental way. They help me seperate myself from that slippery slope of self loathing.

I am going to be practicing in the community where my parents spend their Winters. At first, they were seeing it as a sort of defeat. They have been dubious of me professionally for my entire life. It is kind of fun to watch their surprise that I have multiple offers. They have never truly respected my medical opinion. They felt that I was marginal because I have changed positions several times. Each experience has enhanced my qulifications. It is the not "sign of instability". In fact, my varied experience has positioned me to take a leadership role in the changing face of health care.

Sorry this went so long. The take home message is that the negative tapes still play in my head. I have managed to fight it off, but at a great price. I. will.never.do.that.to.my children. Never.

[xReems]

Definitely.

My parents are traditional Hindus but a bit more modernized than some other Indian parents in that, my sister and I are able to talk about boys, marriage, etc without hiding it. However, pre-marital sex is a big fat "hell no" in my house. We were taught that we should wait until marriage for that since there's a "time and place for everything."

Although I had a few boyfriends in the past, I was careful with not having sex because at that time, it's something I felt strong about. However, that all changed with my current boyfriend of 3.5 years. A year in, temptation got the best of us. I blame the alcohol for it but sadly, I was the one who initiated it. Clearly, my boyfriend did a better job than me! With that being said, I decided to wait until I found my Mr. Right, which I did. Do I regret my choice? Nope. Amazingly, he's the only guy who's been able to turn me on. That says a lot! I think it's the South African in him.

I blame his accent for all of this.

[colt13]

Well I am a guy, but being raised by a single mom did affect my sexual upbringing. Our family has lots of skeletons, such as my mom being from a family so poor that in the early 50's, her mother signed papers so her 14 yr old daughter(my aunt) could get married because it was one less mouth to feed. My mom was 7 at the time, and became more independent because of it. She was extremely shy, so once grown, she pretty much had an arranged marriage between a sister's friend and her. He was slightly handicapped, and mom has admitted that they were sexually incompatible. But being a good girl, she didn't know this until they were already married. One of the reasons she always wanted me to have experience before marriage so there aren't any huge surprises.

Emmyfair, i'm sorry.

[Lainey]

Another "hell yes!" over here! My mom was Catholic, and got the "sex is bad" message from my grandma and grandpa all her life. Totally screwed her up, too, by the way.

There was a man who could give me an orgasm just from a hug. I can only imagine the ecstasy if I would have slept with him! But I didn't, because "good girls" didn't do that. Like some of the other posters, I've never felt the same about anyone else. I wish I did.

So I moved away to go to college, and got involved with a creepy dude who just pressured me until I gave in to everything. He was very sexist, looking back, though not in a religious way. I didn't realize it at the time. One of the reasons he was attracted to me was that I was a virgin. So not being one could have saved me from the creepy bastard. Maybe. I still wonder why I was unable to just tell him no and to leave me alone, but I wasn't able to do that. You were supposed to "be nice" to men. Somehow I got the idea that being nice meant giving in to what the man wanted. Except you still weren't supposed to have sex with them. I just realized that's a very conflicting message.

I also got the very conflicting message that women needed men, couldn't really "do" or "be" anything without a man, and yet you should be afraid of men because they will rape or kill you. So you should stay away from them, too. WTF???!!! No wonder I'm screwed up now. My grandma is also one of those people who think that women get raped because of the way they dress, and yet she has no problem with pretty young women dressing sexy. So. Fucking. Insane.

So after being coerced into having sex with the creepy ex, I spent years feeling like I was a failure, and it's affected my whole life. It still affects it, I think, even though intellectually I know better now. I've since realized (after being told the cow/milk thing, too) that the only men who care about that are controlling creeps, or who have been taught that enough to screw them up in regards to sex. It's a load of crap. How does it still go on!?

[TheSassyOne]

Well I was pretty much the "good girl" in my family and within my group of friend. Heck my Hubby still calls me a good two shoes :roll: Reading the other posts though, I'm just reminded that everyone experiences are different. I was perfectly happy with my choices and never felt pressured or strange for not doing what others were doing. On the other hand, I also wasn't judging my family and friends for their choices either. Even for those who didn't make those "good girl" choices as the OP called them, some of the same negative results happened.

So far me, so far, so good! :dance:

[gilora]

When I was 12 and got my first period my dad told me that I had better be careful so I didn't get some guy in trouble by getting pregnant. When I was 16 my dad walked out on his 21-year marriage to my mom.

At age 24, I married my long-term (high school) boyfriend, the only person I had ever had sex with. I married him despite his cheating, alcoholism and knocking me around. I guess I thought I didn't deserve any better. 2 years later I decided to leave him when I was sleeping in the guest room, having decided not to keep a knife under my pillow because I was afraid he'd get it away from me and kill me with it. Fortunately I had finished my education, had a job and no children. I wasn't making much money, had tons of student loans and no savings. I was faithful to him the entire time, believing that marriage was for life and by leaving him no man would ever want me again.

It took several years to feel worthwhile. I'm now happily remarried (yes, I'm an "adulteress") with 2 children.

I think if I could do it over again I would not have been so exclusive when I was younger. Not having anyone to compare my first husband with, I didn't realize how toxic our relationship was. I would have gladly sacrificed some pieces of my heart in order to get the real-life education I desperately needed.

[Eponine]

My family is not religious at all but sex was never, ever discussed in our house. I was very much encouraged to be the secular version of a "good girl," with straight As, lots of extracurricular activities, volunteering, all that. In my tween years I began to understand that "nice" girls didn't have sex before they were married, or at least much older. So I had that idea in my head and was just beginning to try to explore my own feelings on that when I started dating my first boyfriend. He was sweet and seemed like a good complement to my good girl image - he was smart, involved, went to an all boys Catholic school, and charmed my parents. I went into it with definite innocence and I figured we'd kiss a bit and hold hands, that's it.

A few months after we started seeing each other, when I was 14, he raped me. For whatever reason at the time I kind of felt like "good girl" was an all-or-nothing package: you either had all the aspects or you were just a faker. It forced me to rethink the label and consider the nuances of such an identity. Since I believed I no longer fit the image of a "good girl" I stopped trying to be one - and I'm glad that I let it go before it got too ingrained in me.

[DamnPrecious]

I was always just told that getting pregnant would ruin my life. When my BFF got pregnant in high school, he told me her life was over.

One of my favorite memories of my dad was when I came home one night when was 18, after being dumped yet again (by someone who was NOT a boyfriend, just someone I had been dating), for not having sex. I was crying because I couldn't understand why it kept happening. He made me feel so much better and I hope my husband someone day will make my daughter feel the way he did to me.

I'm 26 now and he's on me about having kids because I'm getting old. haha

So in a way, being a good girl in that respect, did hurt my dating life. It was probably for the best.

[marmalade]

God no. I had my first kiss in 6th grade, was making out with the hottest guy at the Christian summer camp when I was 15 . That made a LOT of girls wildly jealous....I faked my way into the camp to get away from my parents who were going fundie right before my eyes. Thank heavens I knew the lingo; I was a shitty Christian.

Went out with a guy for 7 years starting just before I turned 17 and we were each other's "first." I did get a ringing slap in the face during my senior year of HS when I dared to say that I had a better sex life than my mother. I don't deny that I deserved that...I was such a smartass, but it felt soooo good. :dance:

Before that boyfriend, the parents tried to set me up with guys from church or DeMolay (I was a bad Job's Daughter through about the 10th grade when I outgrew it); one of them nearly raped me.

With a pretty constant string of b/f's from the 8th grade on (even if they lasted only a couple of weeks), I'm shocked that I held onto the cherry as long as I did!

The parents really disapproved when the b/f and I moved in together after he graduated HS (he is a year younger than I), but I reminded them that all of my older sisters lived with their hubbys to be and they didn't throw hissy fits and their religious views weren't going to determine the success or failure of my relationship. They actually ended up liking each other, but it took some time.

[marmalade]

God no. I had my first kiss in 6th grade, was making out with the hottest guy at the Christian summer camp when I was 15 . That made a LOT of girls wildly jealous....I faked my way into the camp to get away from my parents who were going fundie right before my eyes. Thank heavens I knew the lingo; I was a shitty Christian.

Went out with a guy for 7 years starting just before I turned 17 and we were each other's "first." I did get a ringing slap in the face during my senior year of HS when I dared to say that I had a better sex life than my mother. I don't deny that I deserved that...I was such a smartass, but it felt soooo good. :dance:

Before that boyfriend, the parents tried to set me up with guys from church or DeMolay (I was a bad Job's Daughter through about the 10th grade when I outgrew it); one of them nearly raped me.

With a pretty constant string of b/f's from the 8th grade on (even if they lasted only a couple of weeks), I'm shocked that I held onto the cherry as long as I did!

The parents really disapproved when the b/f and I moved in together after he graduated HS (he is a year younger than I), but I reminded them that all of my older sisters lived with their hubbys to be and they didn't throw hissy fits and their religious views weren't going to determine the success or failure of my relationship. They actually ended up liking each other, but it took some time.

[Maul the Koala]

Deleted for issues

[Hane]

Yes. And it's something I struggle with right now and I'm in my mid-20s. I attempted to finally have sex earlier this year and ended a bloody mess with me crying my eyes out because I was in unbelievable pain with the guy telling me that it was okay, the next time we tried it wouldn't hurt and I wouldn't bleed. Then said guy told me he didn't see himself being in a relationship with me anymore and didn't want to see me again shortly after we first tried. Nice. I still haven't recovered from that one and it's been almost 6 months now (yay for crying every single night over him).

I waver between feeling ashamed and thinking it's okay, that not everyone gets it right with the first person the first time. I try not to think about it but I am so very ashamed and I should've waited for someone who wouldn't have bailed on me and in one of the harshest manner possible I can think of (he sent it in an e-mail message. Not even a phone call...). And to top it off he still wants to be friends. Nice x2.

I wasn't really taught about men, except to avoid them. Male attention is a bad, bad thing. I think that contributes to my feelings of being ashamed because my upbringing taught me better than that. If I had just ignored him in the first place I wouldn't be feeling ashamed like this.

Oh, MTK, I am so sorry that this horrible thing happened to you--because it could have happened to me.

Here's the one and only reason why I'm glad I didn't have premarital sex: A couple of months before my wedding (I was 20), my mom took me for my first gynecological examination. The doctor discovered I had a nearly imperforate hymen (just enough to menstruate through--no wonder I could never get a tampon in!), with a blood vessel running through it. So I went to the hospital and had surgery to correct the situation.

One of my cousins had the same condition, but her mother thought it was "wrong" for her to "lose her virginity" surgically--so my cousin's sex life, for the first several months of her marriage, was hell.

[moreorlessnu]

We were definitely raised in the "good girl" camp. We watched neighborhood girls behave otherwise. I can remember at least 2 incidents where some of these girls were, ah, doing things in cars right under their parents' windows.

Interestingly, these girls also grew up to have good jobs, marriages and families, and their teenage activities had no bearing on their future happiness in life.

So, maybe it's more about knowing who you are, what you want, being emotionally healthy, and seeking others who are also emotionally healthy, and less about which girls are doing what with whom and at what age (contrary to what we were led to believe).

[Austin]

I must confess that in my much-younger years, I did believe to some extent that I could control this whole arena by being a good, modest girl. I can't say that my folks preached this to me, but the church sure did. After surviving sexual assault and much later, living through sexual harassment in the workplace, I came to terms with the fact that being a good girl or a circumspect woman does NOT bestow to us control over the behavior of these sorts of men. They do these things because they can, and because they are sick fucks. If dressing modestly and behaving in a circumspect way prevented this type of thing, then neither of these things would have ever happened to me.