Kidnapped for Jesus - insight in gothard's programs??

[delilahdog11]

Has anyone watched this documentary yet? It mainly focuses on a Christian re-education camp in the Dominican Republic, but it is a place were "troubled" teens: read gay, those that question their parents, those that doubt their faith, etc. And it shows in great detail the psychological brainwashing/pressure and the physical abuse each kid endures and some are over 18 and aren't allowed to leave. The documentary said over 120 exist in the US alone. I wonder if the experience shown in this documentary are similar to the gothard's programs. Anyway. The documentary is worth watching.

[Howl]

This doesn't address Gothard directly, but your post caught my attention and out of curiosity I did a quick google search for "Christian camps for rebellious teens" and came up with many entries, all promising to set your teen on the righteous path. BUT, the link to this article in Mother Jones also popped up: The Shocking Stories of How Christian Homes Treat Troubled Teens

Pretty damned horrible, but definitely worth a read. And how do these homes survive? Total lack of oversight for teen homes in some states:

[tab=30] "It's hard to understand it, but faith-based is just taboo for regulation," says Matthew Franck, an editor at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch [Missouri], who authored an investigative series on the state's homes in the mid-2000s. "It took decades of work to get just the most minimal standards of regulation at faith-based child-care centers," he adds. "I just knew that when certain lobbyists would stand up to say, 'We have a concern about how this affects faith-based institutions,' the bill was immediately amended—it was a very Republican legislature—or it would immediately die. That's still true." (Missouri isn't alone. In April, Montana state Rep. Christy Clark, who campaigned on a "faith and family" platform, joined 11 other Republicans in scuttling a bill that would have regulated religious teen homes; a mother of three, she cast the homes' residents as unreliable witnesses who "struggle with truthfulness.").....

[tab=30]NEW BEGINNINGS IS EMBLEMATIC of an unknown number of "troubled teen" homes catering to the Independent Fundamental Baptist community—a web of thousands of autonomous churches linked by doctrine, overlapping leadership, and affiliations with Bible colleges like Bob Jones University. IFB churches emphasize strict obedience and consider teen rebellion an invention of worldly society, so it's little surprise that families faced with teenage drinking, smoking, or truancy might turn to programs promising a tough-love fix. Fear of government intrusion—particularly on account of the community's "spare the rod, spoil the child" worldview—is so pervasive that IFB congregations are primed to dismiss regulatory actions against abusive facilities as religious persecution.

This all goes back to Lester Roloff Homes in Texas in the 1970s, which were notorious centers of physical, emotional and spiritual abuse. Roloff was sued and the homes moved away from Texas, but came back when then-Gov. George W. Bush deregulated the activities of faith-based groups here (thanks a lot, George). Up to the present, political pressure has worked to kill bills at the state and national level that would require regulation and oversight of these homes. In some states there is ZERO oversight for faith-based homes for teens.

In terms of Texas, where I'm from, I'm sure homes like this still survive with absolutely no oversight. We've been under the influence of two fundamentalists governors for a very, very long time (George W. Bush and Rick Perry), as well as a very conservative state legislature.

Of interest also is that survivors of these homes have found each other and a place to share their stories on the internet, so hopefully the truth is coming out about these places.

Reading about peoples' experience working for Gothard, there were similar elements of forced work hours, some food deprivation, and general emotional abuse. Are there actually "homes" for teens based on Gothard's teachings?

[smittykins]

This all goes back to Lester Roloff Homes in Texas in the 1970s, which were notorious centers of physical, emotional and spiritual abuse.

I remember reading that Roloff's motto was "better a pink bottom than a black heart," and most bottoms under his care were black, blue and bloodied. :evil-eye:

[DGayle]

And how do these homes survive? Total lack of oversight for teen homes in some states

Cry religion, and the government is hands-off. This is why I'm becoming more and more against certain religious freedoms when it comes to what parents are allowed to do to their kids. You can whip kids bloody, deprive them of education, even have them kidnapped and say it's for religion, and the states can't really do anything.

[uber frau]

There's a long thread about Hephzibah House on the FJ Yuku board.

[Howl]

Cry religion, and the government is hands-off. This is why I'm becoming more and more against certain religious freedoms when it comes to what parents are allowed to do to their kids. You can whip kids bloody, deprive them of education, even have them kidnapped and say it's for religion, and the states can't really do anything.

So very true, DGayle, and the fundies and ultra fundies (can't believe i had to made THAT distinction) are pushing pushing pushing at that boundary at all times using all avenues (educational, courts, governance/lawmaking), with a fair amount of success.

[Palimpsest]

Cry religion, and the government is hands-off. This is why I'm becoming more and more against certain religious freedoms when it comes to what parents are allowed to do to their kids. You can whip kids bloody, deprive them of education, even have them kidnapped and say it's for religion, and the states can't really do anything.

All the things you mention above are actually against existing US laws and are, and have been, successfully prosecuted, religious freedom be damned. The problems you are talking about are more in the area of law enforcement/CPS being able to:

1. Find out about these cases as many religious fanatics are very secretive and good at hiding the evidence. See the stories on Homeschoolers Anonymous, the Hephzibah House accounts of moving the girls when inspections were anticipated, and the number of Christian Reform "schools" that are moving overseas to escape law enforcement.

2. Resist national and local pressure on CPS, law enforcement and the court system from the far-right religious lobby, state reps, and congressmen. You can see an example of this on the "Fundy family loses their children" thread where some whacky far-right Republican state rep is completely misrepresenting the facts about a CPS intervention for political gain.

If it comes to "freedom of religion or state sanctioned child abuse" you should really look more closely at medical neglect. Those are the cases that go to the supreme court and are extremely difficult to handle. Tighten up on Freedom of Religion pertaining to required medical care and quite a few crunchy granola so-called non-medically compliant but benign and/or less benign anti-vax parents could get successfully prosecuted.

So good luck in dismantling the 1st and 14th Amendments to the US Constitution. I'd focus my energy on making sure that existing laws are better able to be enforced, and strengthening the existing child abuse legislation, rather than trying to change the Constitution, if I were you.

[DGayle]

The Pearls' books are 100% legal without any restrictions or oversight. Not until a child DIES does anyone step in about kids being whipped.

So many of the fundy kids we talk about here aren't being educated. Being told men tamed and rode dinosaurs isn't education. If I decide to homeskool my kids and their daily lessons center on Santa Claus while denying reality, that's not education, but also wouldn't be allowed since it's not religion.

These kidnap-things are legal. They happen here in the US. There are no laws against hiring someone to go act like a kidnapper to scare your kid shitless and back into your idea of godliness. If I had my kids fake-kidnapped to scare them into behaving, it would probably be called mental abuse though. If a person does it for religion hands off.

When medical neglect is because parents cry religion, it's harder to do anything to them. When they do it and aren't calling religion, or even think nothing's wrong, then they're just not playing the card.

Just being religious isn't a shield. Tossing down the Religion Says So card offers you protection.

[Palimpsest]

The Pearls' books are 100% legal without any restrictions or oversight. Not until a child DIES does anyone step in about kids being whipped.

And you know that, how? Actually you know nothing about how many times CPS has stepped in short of death and saved lives because that info is always confidential unless it goes to court. I certainly agree with you that the Pearls' books should be suppressed with prejudice in the USA. Let's work towards corporal punishment (spanking) being regarded as child abuse in all US states as it is in Scandinavia. Sadly, most US states are fine with corporal punishment so long as it doesn't leave a mark. You do know, don't you, that the reason Pearl advises plumbing line is that it doesn't beat a child bloody? It doesn't usually leave marks for CPS to see. It merely, when Pearl followers totally lose control, pulverizes the flesh so that the child dies of massive tissue damage.

Here you need to focus on strengthening Child Abuse legislation - not impinging upon religious freedom.

So many of the fundy kids we talk about here aren't being educated. Being told men tamed and rode dinosaurs isn't education. If I decide to homeskool my kids and their daily lessons center on Santa Claus while denying reality, that's not education, but also wouldn't be allowed since it's not religion.

Let's work on this one too. My state does require decent homeskooling standards. Not perfect but decent. Want to join me in looking at the states who just rubber-stamp homeskool and unskooling with no fucking standards at all? And actually doing something about it rather than ranting on FJ?

These kidnap-things are legal. They happen here in the US. There are no laws against hiring someone to go act like a kidnapper to scare your kid shitless and back into your idea of godliness. If I had my kids fake-kidnapped to scare them into behaving, it would probably be called mental abuse though. If a person does it for religion hands off.

No, it is not legal and there are laws against it. You are wrongly informed. Again this goes to strengthening child abuse legislation so these case can be prevented and prosecuted successfully.

When medical neglect is because parents cry religion, it's harder to do anything to them. When they do it and aren't calling religion, or even think nothing's wrong, then they're just not playing the card.

Just being religious isn't a shield. Tossing down the Religion Says So card offers you protection.

Tossing down the religion card offers some protection, and certainly a delay in prosecution, but it isn't a get home free card, as many cases that reached the Supreme Court have proven over the years.

DGayle, I agree with your passion and your indignation. I just want you to aim it in the direction in which you can potentially change things. Not in (sorry) rather simplistic and uninformed ranting.