Curious about the attraction

[guitar_villain]

You all at FJ have been following a lot of the Quiverfull-type fundies for a while, and I know some of you used to be part of the movement. A question I wonder about- what's the attraction? I can see it from a couple of angles, none of which resonate with me at all

1) A way to be given all the answers without too much thought. All you have to do is follow what X says and everything is taken care of

2) As a corollary, fear of uncertainty/ambiguity/the other. The folks here seem to have very black and white views of the world- there's little ability to see it as any other way. This seems to express in a lot of the distrust of science- "You don't have the answers/you keep having to admit what you thought yesterday was wrong"

3) Love of power/control. This obviously works if you're at the top of the food chain, but what attraction is there if you aren't?

4) As an extension of 1+2+3, a love of lawyer-like rules. The Good Book tells you what to believe, and since you can choose the chunks of the book you feel like you get to develop a set of rules for everyone else to follow.

5) Inability to live any other way: since for many education and even interaction with the heathen world has been closed off you can't leave. I assume this is the state of many of the women and low-totem-pole males in the system

Since none of these work for me at all, I fine the whole thing fairly baffling. I've dealt with many serious fundamentalists but even they were willing to engage with the outside world. (I've even tutored some of their homeschooled kids in chemistry when the parents realized they needed help) How do you end up falling down the rabbit hole?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Being a fundie seems very appealing to narcissists I think. Mainly because it basically gives them a whole bunch of minions to control that it is perfectly okay and accepted to abuse. Then you can make a blog and get a ton of leghumpers to adore you for being so Godly.

[polecat]

• Powerful and exclusive dedication/devotion to an explicit person or creed.
  They use of “thought-reform†programmes to integrate, socialize, persuade and therefore control members.
  A well thought through recruitment, selection and socialization process.
  Attempts to maintain psychological and physical dependency among cult members.
  Cults insist on reprogramming the way people see the world.
  Consistent exploitation of group members specifically to advance the leaders goals.
  Cults nearly always go in for milieu control signals: a different,unfamiliar setting with different rules, terms, behaviour patterns.
  Ultimately using psychological and physical harm to cult members, their friends and relatives and possibly the community as a whole.

From psychologytoday.com/blog/sideways-view/201402/why-do-people-join-cults

I'll add this one, too: elizabethesther.com/2014/06/top-5-reasons-people-join-cults-hint-its-not-because-theyre-stupid.html

Cults can suck just about anyone in during a weak moment.

[DGayle]

I think the men love the idea of being in charge and oppressing women because it makes them feel big and strong, and the women who go into it like not having to feel responsible for anything.

[albanuadh_1]

While not on a religious bent, I can 'sort of' see why the 1950's appeal. After a day of concrete buildings, traffic, press 1, press 2, press 99, a 100 on the phone to get through anywhere and hear a real voice, the 1950's start to look good.

You aren't off the grid and chopping wood and drawing water. Most ( thinking back - born in 1956) had indoor plumbing, one car, a phone, black-and-white TV with 2 channels, real operators, and doctors who made house calls. The war was over.

Of course, you look at the good things and forget or blur the bad stuff. No birth control ( condoms were illegal), hysterectomies required husband's signature, divorce was a scandal, wife and kids were property, etc.

I think this is how people might get drawn in. Start by picturing The Waltons or Hallmark cards and it looks rather nice. But you have to stop and think and perhaps this is where the cult and/or fundies get you, you're tired or lonely or lost.

Anyways, my 2 cents - not that we have pennies any longer in Canada.

[Alexandra]

I think people who had bad/unstable/etc childhoods can be attracted to it...

For example, someone who had a bad childhood might like the picture fundies put out that "their way" creates happy families and even happier children, etc. They also might like it because it makes them feel needed (constantly giving birth, homeschooling, and for men the need to be the provider)- or something along those lines.

[jaynie]

According to the small amount of research I've done, conservatives in general are more likely to make emotion based judgements (particularly fear based) whereas liberals are more likely to suppress emotion and use reasoning. The typical brain structures are even different in a way that reflects that. Which is absolutely not to say its that clear cut and simple for most people, but given that fundies occupy an extreme I'd guess that's a big component for a lot of them.

Conservatives also tend to score low on tolerance for ambiguity and openness to experience, and high on authoritarianism, disgust, and desire for purity. So again, we've got fundies at one extreme. The actual world, which is full of ambiguity and things that they've been taught to be disgusted by, is very very frightening to them - and so, because fear salience is a large component of their reasoning, they judge it wrong.

So I guess that's an extension of 2. But I'm not sure that alone is enough to drive people into a totalitarian cult (as opposed to being regular conservatives), unless they're pathologically anxious, which is unlikely to be the case for all of them.

A book I read about cults (centred on the moonies) suggested that for a lot of people, the attraction is that they want to do something good, they want to change the world, but they feel powerless to. A cult will claim to give them that power. So now we've got people who are frightened by modern morality, and who therefore judge it to be wrong, who want to change it and don't feel they have the ability to. And someone like Gothard comes along and says "sure you can change the world, you just need to birth a litter of children and teach them and dress them and discipline them in only the way I tell you" and hey, that sounds great!

Again though, there are certainly other factors.

Kids born in the cult are a different kettle of fish though. As far as they've ever known, the information they've been given reflects reality. So some might, for example, be disinclined to reason based on emotion, and then get out into the world and find the facts are wrong. That's where you get people like Cynthia Jeub or Libby Anne of Love, Joy, Feminism. Or some might find through circumstance that actually, the things they have been taught are disgusting actually don't bother them. These people might leave, or they might adapt the cult to their new values, depending on the specifics. Or some may have all of the same traits, but feel that the cult itself has abandoned its values - these people ate probably most at risk of getting suckered into a new cult.

All of these factors are why I remain hopeful that, while midnight-of-the-18th-birthday breakaways are vanishingly rare, gradual value shifts may be much more common. Especially in a world that is increasingly open and connected and flooded with fundie-contradicting information.

[Jana814]

I think the men love the idea of being in charge and oppressing women because it makes them feel big and strong, and the women who go into it like not having to feel responsible for anything.

I think you have just described Steve Maxwell!!

[Jana814]

I think people who had bad/unstable/etc childhoods can be attracted to it...

For example, someone who had a bad childhood might like the picture fundies put out that "their way" creates happy families and even happier children, etc. They also might like it because it makes them feel needed (constantly giving birth, homeschooling, and for men the need to be the provider)- or something along those lines.

Agree!!

[BobTheWalrus]

I never got fully fundie, but I was on the way there. For me it was all about wanting to know what was right and wrong, so I didn't have to think for myself. I liked being that little bit more extreme than anyone else. And I genuinely did want to know what God says is right and wrong. The trouble is that the main thing God wants is a relationship with me based on trust. Rules make you feel righteous, and you can easily pick out who isn't righteous by seeing which rules they do or don't follow. But it makes you *self*-righteous, and that totally goes against the core of Christian belief, which is that our righteousness/perfection is given to us by Jesus. Not that we are all bad (as fundies seem to think), but that we can't be perfect on our own. Understanding our need for God is supposed to make us humble and gentle and even more loving of other people, but unfortunately that gets corrupted into a self-righteousness which feels good to us, but makes you really intolerant of other people.

[tigerchild]

I went from one fundie community to another before finally breaking because I was very hungry for love and acceptance and knowing what to expect in order to gain those two things.

Of course, not all fundamentalist groups are capable of this, but in the one I joined as an older teen/adult, frankly I was love bombed. Unlike my very mentally ill mother and in denial dad, these people seemed to genuinely want me around, love me, were willing to mentor me, ect. I do think that some groups do very purposefully love bomb people. It's a good way to integrate someone into the community and a good way to maintain control.

I didn't ever truly believe. I just really, really, REALLY wanted someone, anyone, to love me. I actually think that more people than one might expect get pulled into these kinds of churches/groups that way.

[Jana814]

I think many of these people who become Fundie r looking for acceptance & love. Espically if they don't have a stable family background.

[Rebelwife]

I think many of these people who become Fundie r looking for acceptance & love. Espically if they don't have a stable family background.

And I often feel that people who come from damaged backgrounds want love but feel unlovable. Finding a group who professes to love you doesn't change that. If you've joined the group and are still feeling unloved, it can be easier to pin the reason on doing something (anything!) wrong than worry that it's something inherent in you.

[tigerchild]

And I often feel that people who come from damaged backgrounds want love but feel unlovable. Finding a group who professes to love you doesn't change that. If you've joined the group and are still feeling unloved, it can be easier to pin the reason on doing something (anything!) wrong than worry that it's something inherent in you.

I personally would say that you always know it's inherent in you. But being able to have reasons gives you hope that you otherwise do not have, that maybe you might be able to be worthwhile someday. And some of these groups tell you that even so, they still love you. It is powerful. And not always about "not worrying" that it's you. I always thought it was me. :)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think that for a lot of women particularly, the image of the perfect happy family with (lots of) well-scrubbed perfectly behaved children and warm family celebrations is a big draw. Movements which do actual recruiting know this, there are "outreach" movements which make a point to invite singles over for various events at big family houses and whatever else. People get emotionally pulled into this idea that if they follow this path they can have the perfect family.

So many large religious families also put out blogs where they show only the good side of things (like any blogs anywhere) and people get pulled in that way too. Again the big perfect loving family with a passel of perfectly well-behaved children.

[Jana814]

I think that for a lot of women particularly, the image of the perfect happy family with (lots of) well-scrubbed perfectly behaved children and warm family celebrations is a big draw. Movements which do actual recruiting know this, there are "outreach" movements which make a point to invite singles over for various events at big family houses and whatever else. People get emotionally pulled into this idea that if they follow this path they can have the perfect family.

So many large religious families also put out blogs where they show only the good side of things (like any blogs anywhere) and people get pulled in that way too. Again the big perfect loving family with a passel of perfectly well-behaved children.

Have to agree with this!! I think when many of these Fundie people do an outreach, they look for people who may not have a very stable life. They want to show them how they can be stable.

[Toothfairy]

Control, Mental illness, abused. I truly believe people join cults for protection, love, and acceptance. Some had shitty childhoods others couldn't have the childhood they wanted. They think they're going to take over the world but don't realize they're doing more harm than good. Which is why for some cults like Quiverfull and Gothard are failing. Some of the same reasons why people join gangs

[Jana814]

Control, Mental illness, abused. I truly believe people join cults for protection, love, and acceptance. Some had shitty childhoods others couldn't have the childhood they wanted. They think they're going to take over the world but don't realize they're doing more harm than good. Which is why for some cults like Quiverfull and Gothard are failing. Some of the same reasons why people join gangs

Agree!!

[ariel9]

People seek out this lifestyle to atone for events that they feel culpable for ie. God brought this tragic event in my life because of my wrongdoing and the only way to stop bad events like this from happening is to live a perfect life in fundamentalism.

Another thing is they may desire something that someone in the mainstream won't give them like a family of over 10 children.

Others may not be adjusting well to changes in the realm of religion and may feel the need to go back to it's purest form. It could mean a simpler life. No need for college when you're a woman you just have to be thin pretty and good with kids to be desirable.They think of it as a way to isolate from corruption.Legalism serves this purpose for some people because lots of rules remind of right and wrong.

Finally you have people who want spousal love so badly they join. They know that there's no way that they can have this spouse they want so acquire beliefs that they did not have before to please this person. I think that if you follow this forum you can think of at least two people who did this.