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Ellimenopy

So weird that I knew them before they were quiverfull...

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Ellimenopy

They say they're not judgmental, but I don't know who they're kidding since "I'm praying for you" in this context always has a unspoken "you sinner" attached to it. Courtney is young. They're going to end up with tons of kids. I always knew that this college ministry had a hardcore fundamentalist streak underneath it, but it's so weird to watch person after person I met there dress like hipsters but get more and more authoritarian and patriarchal in their theology. For me it's scary because it's a reminder that normal-seeming people can still have a fundamentalist agenda.

 

hansgooger.com/2013/09/06/the-slow-steady-drip-of-gods-grace-and-birth-control/

Edited by OnceUponATime
adding tags

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Jasmar

I don't see where they're saying they won't be using any birth control, just not the pill (and other hormone-based forms, I assume).

In 1983, my extremely liberal doctor told me the same thing about BC pills - that even if the pill somehow didn't prevent ovulation in a given month, it made the lining of the uterus much less hospitable for implantation. She explained this as a benefit, sort of a back-up to the primary methodology.

So since they believe life begins at conception, their position makes sense to me.

I was more concerned with the fact that he has been talking young folks that if they're not ready to have kids, they're not ready to be married. :pink-shock:

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Howl

So if you are using natural family planning and avoiding sex during fertile periods, aren't you still potentially denying God a child?

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GenerationCedarchip
They say they're not judgmental, but I don't know who they're kidding since "I'm praying for you" in this context always has a unspoken "you sinner" attached to it. Courtney is young. They're going to end up with tons of kids. I always knew that this college ministry had a hardcore fundamentalist streak underneath it, but it's so weird to watch person after person I met there dress like hipsters but get more and more authoritarian and patriarchal in their theology. For me it's scary because it's a reminder that normal-seeming people can still have a fundamentalist agenda.

hansgooger.com/2013/09/06/the-slow-steady-drip-of-gods-grace-and-birth-control/

I was just curious - which ministry?

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Happy
PennySycamore
I don't see where they're saying they won't be using any birth control, just not the pill (and other hormone-based forms, I assume).

In 1983, my extremely liberal doctor told me the same thing about BC pills - that even if the pill somehow didn't prevent ovulation in a given month, it made the lining of the uterus much less hospitable for implantation. She explained this as a benefit, sort of a back-up to the primary methodology.

So since they believe life begins at conception, their position makes sense to me.

I was more concerned with the fact that he has been talking young folks that if they're not ready to have kids, they're not ready to be married. :pink-shock:

At one time, it was felt that the pill maybe made a the uterine lining inhospitable to a fertilized egg. The developer of the pill believed that might be so even though there was no evidence for it. We know now that the pill doesn't work that way at all.

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salex

This article from Love Joy Feminism is a good one, and I'd have linked it to the guy's blog IF I hadn't already commented. Basically, since a huge percentage of fertilized eggs fail to implant whether women are on the pill or not, and since the pill acts to prevent ovulation, so no egg to fertilize most of the time anyway, not using contraceptives of any kind results in more unimplanted eggs than using the pill.... but, that was never really the point anyway, was it....

Now, I need to find just the numbers without the editorial and keep it in my pocket for future discussions It is worth reading....

With Birth Control:

â—¾Sample size: 100 fertile women

â—¾0.15 dead zygotes per month

â—¾2 dead zygotes by the end of the year

Without Birth Control:

â—¾Sample size: 100 fertile women

â—¾Each month 16% become pregnant and 16% have dead zygotes

â—¾85 dead zygotes by the end of the year

Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... z3E8pif9xe

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browncoatslytherin

random question that i'm sure would make a fundy's head explode, buuut...it is still possible to get pregnant while on the pill (very, very slim chance, but one of my friends is a result of that! lol). so, technically, if god really wanted you to have a child, even if you were on birth control, wouldn't he still be powerful enough to make it happen? are bc pills really more powerful than their god that they trust in for eternal security?

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Coco
random question that i'm sure would make a fundy's head explode, buuut...it is still possible to get pregnant while on the pill (very, very slim chance, but one of my friends is a result of that! lol). so, technically, if god really wanted you to have a child, even if you were on birth control, wouldn't he still be powerful enough to make it happen? are bc pills really more powerful than their god that they trust in for eternal security?

hey! no thinking allowed! :lol:

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Firiel
random question that i'm sure would make a fundy's head explode, buuut...it is still possible to get pregnant while on the pill (very, very slim chance, but one of my friends is a result of that! lol). so, technically, if god really wanted you to have a child, even if you were on birth control, wouldn't he still be powerful enough to make it happen? are bc pills really more powerful than their god that they trust in for eternal security?

Ha ha, reminds me of some friends of my family. When they were making the decision to take permanent birth control measures, the wife got a little nostalgic (perfectly normal!) and said something along the lines of, "What if God wants us to have another kid?" He replied with exactly what you said-- "Umm, if God REALLY wants us to have another kid, he can overcome a vasectomy!"

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Full enough quiver

I have always wondered how god can impregnate elderly women, eg. Sarah and Elizabeth, open the womb of barren women like Rachel, and knock up a virgin, but he can be thwarted by a pill or a bit of latex. Shouldn't the all powerful god who can grant fundie wishes like a genie be able to figure a way around just about anything? He's god, he should be able to impregnate a man if he wanted to.

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