FBC Jacksonville and Bob Gray

[apple1]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I'm not able to start new ones yet. Are there any threads that summarize more of what's gone on with FBC Jacksonville since the late 90's? I grew up living across the street from Homer Linday Jr. but haven't really lived in jax since 1987.

FWIW, my neighborhood was decidedly middle-class, not even what I would call upper middle class although it edged in that direction. Lindsay didn't live extravagantly that I could see, although he sure grew FBC and veered way conservative.

Sorry for the interruption of your regularly scheduled thread!

I am starting this thread about FBC Jacksonville. I do not recall FBC Jacksonville being discussed on FJ before (and I do not personally have any info).

[Rebelwife]

I am starting this thread about FBC Jacksonville. I do not recall FBC Jacksonville being discussed on FJ before (and I do not personally have any info).

Thanks. I did some reading on The Wartburg Watch about the most recent pastor and his intimidation of a blogger, but it seems like there was some huge swing between when it was growing into a more conservative mega church in the 80's under Hal Lindsay jr and Jerry Vines and where it is now - way more fundy and lots of financial shenanigans. I didn't know if there was some big event or just a gradual drift over the years.

The current pastor seems like a piece of work, though.

[mirele]

The go-to for information about FBC Jacksonville is the FBC Jax Watchdog.

http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/ (not breaking because he wouldn't mind)

[Rebelwife]

The go-to for information about FBC Jacksonville is the FBC Jax Watchdog.

http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/ (not breaking because he wouldn't mind)

Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for. Off to read......

[floridiot]

I live in Jax and wouldn't classify FBC as "fundie" in any sense of the word. "Conservative", yes, but I draw a distinct difference between those two terms. People who attend FBC don't stand out from their peers and really they aren't much different from any other mega church. I will say that FBC owns a considerable amount of property in downtown Jax (the campus sprawls several city blocks) and therefore they have a sizeable presence in city politics. Just last year they spear-headed a campaign against a city council vote on whether to include sexual orientation in the city's anti-discrimination code regarding employers' hiring and firing policies. It didn't pass and much of the city, myself included, blames FBC for influencing/intimidating council members.

[Parkersmom120106]

I live in Jax and wouldn't classify FBC as "fundie" in any sense of the word. "Conservative", yes, but I draw a distinct difference between those two terms. People who attend FBC don't stand out from their peers and really they aren't much different from any other mega church. I will say that FBC owns a considerable amount of property in downtown Jax (the campus sprawls several city blocks) and therefore they have a sizeable presence in city politics. Just last year they spear-headed a campaign against a city council vote on whether to include sexual orientation in the city's anti-discrimination code regarding employers' hiring and firing policies. It didn't pass and much of the city, myself included, blames FBC for influencing/intimidating council members.

I live near Jacksonville (Clay Co), and though I don't know much about FBC, they are well known, and I've never heard anything that would make me think they're fundie either. I know that they are very powerful in Jax, and own "half of downtown", as I've heard it said. I try to avoid Jacksonville if I can though, and get someone else to drive if I have to go downtown for something.

[SPHASH]

Isn't Tim Tebow from Jacksonville?

[Rita]

I live in the area, and my sister and I attended a couple times as guests around 1990. If you invited a friend to church, you each got a candy bar and your friend got put on the mailing lists, which persisted for more than a decade.

Their lighthouse - stuck on the side of one of the parking garages downtown, it shone into people's homes. And FBC resisted turning it off.

Whenever there's planned construction on a bridge leading into downtown or in downtown, it is shut down on Sundays. If you want to get to FBC (and that's most of the reason you drive into downtown on Sundays), you can. If you want to attend a Saturday event (such as markets, parks, shows), you have to drive around. They also block off free public parking spots during their meetings. Seriously, they put FBC cones on the street for blocks and redirect traffic so their multiple parking garages (which are closed during the week) can get out faster.

During the last project, on Wednesday nights, the Matthews bridge is open later for their flock. Not late enough for the Monthly ArtWalk patrons - who pour money into downtown - to use, but enough for the FBC to get home.

There's also rumors that FBC bought up most of the liquor licenses in the 1980s, stifling downtown businesses.

In the last mayoral election, one of FBC's flock, Mike Hogan (big local lawyer) courted only the votes of FBC members, ignoring (I think) almost all other constituents in the county, and was surprised to lose.

My family just sees that as more of the same entitled, arrogant, pain-in-the-ass behavior, and expect nothing but that in the future. I know there are decent individuals, but the overall impression is not favorable.

[Rebelwife]

Isn't Tim Tebow from Jacksonville?

Yes, although he was born in the Philippines and played high school football (as a home school student) in St. John's county which is south of Jax.

[Rita]

Isn't Tim Tebow from Jacksonville?

He is not! He moved to a nearby county to attend a high school in that county, so that he would be visible to recruiters.

The people who like him, though, say he is. I can see that, wanting to claim a link to what you like.

Ah, cross-posted. There is a thread on him already.

[Rebelwife]

I live in Jax and wouldn't classify FBC as "fundie" in any sense of the word. "Conservative", yes, but I draw a distinct difference between those two terms. People who attend FBC don't stand out from their peers and really they aren't much different from any other mega church. I will say that FBC owns a considerable amount of property in downtown Jax (the campus sprawls several city blocks) and therefore they have a sizeable presence in city politics. Just last year they spear-headed a campaign against a city council vote on whether to include sexual orientation in the city's anti-discrimination code regarding employers' hiring and firing policies. It didn't pass and much of the city, myself included, blames FBC for influencing/intimidating council members.

That makes sense, and jibes with what I used to know about them - that're they're conservative and dabble more than they should in local politics. I think it's the intimidation tactics against a blogger and some financial shenanigans that get them lumped in with other more fundy churches on sites like TWW and SSB. Like I said, I haven't lived in Jax since 1990 and although my parents are still at the beach they're hooked in to the Catholic community.

As an aside, I did always find it amusing that Hal Lindsay Jr. was literally surrounded on all sides by Catholics. All of his nearest neighbors, about 10 families, attended my parish church. Especially because back then Jax was such a baptist town - I got asked all the time in HS why Catholics didn't believe in Jesus. :think:

[SPHASH]

He is not! He moved to a nearby county to attend a high school in that county, so that he would be visible to recruiters.

The people who like him, though, say he is. I can see that, wanting to claim a link to what you like.

Ah, cross-posted. There is a thread on him already.

Thanks for the info. Looks like Timmy T has thrown Gator Nation under the bus: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -tim-tebow

[apple1]

FBC Jacksonville's claim to infamy is that their former (now deceased) pastor Bob Gray sexually abused kids for decades. After numerous continuances, he died while waiting to stand trial for some of the sexual abuse charges.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=11877

The church was IFB at the time; I do not know whether they are still IFB, or whether they have united (or re-united, as back in the 1940s they originally were SBC) with the SBC.

The secondary claim to infamy was the cover up and victim blaming engaged in by church leadership, including pastor Messer.

[Rebelwife]

FBC Jacksonville's claim to infamy is that their former (now deceased) pastor Bob Gray sexually abused kids for decades. After numerous continuances, he died while waiting to stand trial for some of the sexual abuse charges.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=11877

The church was IFB at the time; I do not know whether they are still IFB, or whether they have united (or re-united, as back in the 1940s they originally were SBC) with the SBC.

The secondary claim to infamy was the cover up and victim blaming engaged in by church leadership, including pastor Messer.

My understanding is that Gray was pastor at Trinity Baptist, another jax church. It is/was IFB, but FBC has always been southern baptist as far as I know. I think you're right about the second part, though.