Nice fundys?

[fundies_like_zombies]

I read a few blogs now after finding them on here and other places. I like the single girl blogs just about their day to day lives.

Some of the fundy girls seem to be nice and intelligent. I was suprised that some of their posts aren't all god bothering and girly whatever and modesty. some do put others down and judge but others seem to be happy just living their life as they like it not saying it is for everyone/.

if someone really does like all the fundyness, isn't forced into it and chooses to live like that is it still bad?

hope that finding some nice fundys doesn't mean it is catching!!! lol!

[JesusFightClub]

Not a fan of pet fundies. I'm sure some of them are indeed lovely people. Their beliefs, however, are distinctly unlovely and this should not be forgotten.

[bananacat]

The thing about fundies is that they do think their lifestyle is for everyone, and especially with Quiverfullers, their stated goal is to take over the world by sheer population. Most fundies also go in for dominionism. So the ones that seem innocent and sweet still want the men in their lives to take over governments to make their country (usually the U.S.) into a Christian fundie theocracy.

There are some types that might be called fundies but don't want to push their beliefs on everyone else, and for the most part they are not snarked on here. Amish are generally fine to live and let live, and I rarely see anything about them on this board (it helps that they don't generally blog though).

[PBrooke]

I know I am a softie when it comes to certain fundies. I'm especially soft on the teen girls who have never known anything else. Most teenagers mindlessly parrot things they've heard growing up without questioning it, whether it's politics, religion, or just an old wives' tale. When you're on your own, making your own life, you're past simple parroting OR simple rebellion, and you start making your own choices. I have hope that every one of these kids will eventually find their own way out, even people like Josh and Anna - because let's face it, they're still kids. They still have time to open their eyes.

I am especially HARD on people like Michelle Duggar, people who lived a normal life and denied their children the same experiences. This is how I'm able to root for the Morton kids, for example - but though the Morton parents are considerably more palatable than some creepy Botkin or Smith, the fact remains that they are just as bad, or worse, than Michelle Duggar.

[ladypuglover]

I know some nice fundies in real life that would give their last bit of food to you, but they still are fundies.

[ElphabaGalinda]

They may seem nice, but especially for the ones who chose this, they would like nothing more than to make their beliefs law and force them on everyone. Laws in certain places make it seem like they're succeeding a little. Part of it is that since I'm a feminist lesbian they'd never accept me as I am, so no way will i ever accept them as they are. But even bigger than that, they want to make the U.S. a Christian nation, which is something it never was, and although I live in Canada, it seems like they are succeeding too much for my liking, and that to me is never nice.

[fundies_like_zombies]

Not sure about pet fundys ........

Some of their lives seem real normal tho - I like the farm type ones and the just daily life ones.

I kinda thought they were all like Zsu Zsu and Kendall.

[Austin]

A fundie would rip away my rights and gladly dictate how I should live my life in a NY second. So while some may seem sweet, and may be "lovely people" in some settings, I never lose sight of that. They are purveyors of hate, no matter how many flowery words they use to disguise that hatred.

[formergothardite]

I think the nice, normal looking ones are the most dangerous because they are more easily able to lure people into the movement. Most people would be turned off by Zsu Zsu or Kendall, but a sweet little SAHD who bakes cakes and knits doesn't seem that bad. But when it comes down to it, they both have the same evil beliefs, some are just better at hiding and sugar coating them.

[GolightlyGrrl]

I think the nice, normal looking ones are the most dangerous because they are more easily able to lure people into the movement. Most people would be turned off by Zsu Zsu or Kendall, but a sweet little SAHD who bakes cakes and knits doesn't seem that bad. But when it comes down to it, they both have the same evil beliefs, some are just better at hiding and sugar coating them.

This! Zuzu and Kendall wear their hatred and bigotry right on their sleeves, but sometimes we give wide berth to the "nice" onces because they seem more normal and a bit more mainstream. But don't get too comfortable; they are dangerous. See Barbara Curtis from Mommy Life.

[tabitha2]

Not to be dramatic but their were Nazis and brutal mobsters who helped the poor,went to church and adored children and animals.A serpent with pretty skin is far more dangerous.

[Angri-la]

A fundie would rip away my rights and gladly dictate how I should live my life in a NY second. So while some may seem sweet, and may be "lovely people" in some settings, I never lose sight of that. They are purveyors of hate, no matter how many flowery words they use to disguise that hatred.

No matter how adorable and cuddly or "sweet" the fundies are, they still think my gay friends are going to hell or are "abominations", think abstinence only teaching is the ONLY answer, and real Science should not be taught. Women who are raped/victims of incest should carry that fetus to birth, or women who miscarry should be tried for murder.

My ultimate pet peeve: they pick and choose Bible verses to support their views as it suits them, ignoring that is convenient and misinterpreting scripture to meet their selfish ends. You want to use Leviticus to prove your ridiculous agenda, you must follow all of the rules: kiss your bacon wrapped shrimp goodbye!

Edited for riffles. many riffles.

[lilwriter85]

I agree some fundies have personalities that would draw people into the lifestyle. Out of the blogs I read through, I think ZsuZsu, Kendall and Sarah from heartsdesire are the worst ones and they would not serve as good recruiters for the fundie lifestyle. I have looked at Barbara Curtis' blog several times before. I first found out about her blog after her daughter auditioned for American Idol two years ago. At first Barbara seemed like a sweet Catholic mom who took on raising and adopting children with special needs in large family but after awhile I got turned off by that woman.

[tabitha2]

The Duggars have set themselves up with a very clear purpose: recruit people to Christian Fundamentalism. And they are EXPERTLY playing both the media and public with that aw shucks southern,give me that ole' time religion,Walton family characterization people crave.

[lilwriter85]

The Duggars have set themselves up with a very clear purpose: recruit people to Christian Fundamentalism. And they are EXPERTLY playing both the media and public with that aw shucks southern,give me that ole' time religion,Walton family characterization people crave.

Exactly. They figured out ways to make themselves to appeal to certain people. Some people do buy into the "sweet whole Christian" image of the Duggars but others haven't. Rachel333 posted on the old FJ that Duggars years ago did recruit one family into the QF movement in that the wife had multiple miscarriages. She that the family they recruited wasn't the Bates family.

[fundiefan]

I don't see any as sincerely nice. Once they reach fundie level in their values and beliefs (especially those who blog and promote themselves), no matter what they say or do or how they present it, it is intentional and fundie. It is manipulative.

Comparing one fundie family to another can make one 'look' better than another - I've done it when I compared the Maxwells and their misery to the Sanders who at least engage in life - but when it comes down to it, no matter how it is presented it is the same exact thing. Just different tools and ways.

Considering my disdain for fundies and the fact that I don't believe in any god and can barely tolerate the idea, I have a lot of Christian friends and relatives. None are on a mission and none make any attempt to sell me or convince me and our different beliefs and values have no real impact on our personal relationships as human beings. Once you bypass respect for others, you enter fundie land and you are no longer nice in any sense of the word.

You can wrap it up and put a bow on it; you can decorate it with glitter. It is the same message. As you decorate your message with the pretties, you're being deceptive and manipulating. The Andersons and the Mortons - same exact thing to me. The Andersons at least don't decorate their message while the Mortons go out of their way to make it presentable, pretty and easy on the eyes (hear, soul, mind).

I just don't think that 'nice' and 'fundie' can co-exist. Truly being nice involves respect. Fundie doesn't know the meaning.

[fundies_like_zombies]

Maybe the ones that i am reading are not real fundys - they don't seem to be recruiting anyone.

I just thought they would all have their beliefs all over their blogs like Kendall rather than it being mostly home stuff crafts, baking, photos and a random few bible quotes.

Maybe they will become proper fundys. or they are more old fashioned kinda than actual fundys. Cos they could be christian without being fundy couldn't they?

[GolightlyGrrl]

I agree some fundies have personalities that would draw people into the lifestyle. Out of the blogs I read through, I think ZsuZsu, Kendall and Sarah from heartsdesire are the worst ones and they would not serve as good recruiters for the fundie lifestyle. I have looked at Barbara Curtis' blog several times before. I first found out about her blog after her daughter auditioned for American Idol two years ago. At first Barbara seemed like a sweet Catholic mom who took on raising and adopting children with special needs in large family but after awhile I got turned off by that woman.

I agree. At first, I didn't have too much of a problem with Barbara; but then I began to read between the lines, and I find her to be quite revolting. I think her "I'm the mom of 12 and I know everything" schtick is very quite irritating. Humility, much?

Barbara has only recently converted to Roman Catholicism, but has a total "I'm the Queen of the Catholics" vibe to her. It reminds me when Dr. Laura became an Orthodox Jew and was all "I am the BEST JEW EVER!"

Furthermore, Barbara had no problem embracing feminism, liberal/progressive views and policies, and yes, the tax payers' money when it suited her, but now says to other people, "Sorry, nothing for you." I don't care if she has swallowed the whole extreme conservative Christian rhetoric. This attitude is self-serving and greedy. She is perfect proof that the "me generation" has come back with a radical right face.

But what really chapped my ass is how she exploited her daughter Jasmine estranging herself from the Curtis family. This is something that should have been kept private, not exposed on a very public blog. I'd love to get Jasmine's side of the story.

[thoughtful]

A fundie would rip away my rights and gladly dictate how I should live my life in a NY second. So while some may seem sweet, and may be "lovely people" in some settings, I never lose sight of that. They are purveyors of hate, no matter how many flowery words they use to disguise that hatred.

This.

I've been meaning to post to this thread, and just didn't get a chance until now.

So much of our disagreement on FJ seems to center, in some way, around this issue.

It has entered into the distraction on the LOLmodesty thread due to Mompom's talking about the family in question being nice (as opposed to my having accidentally made a sexual innuendo about a minor, which is a valid complaint and the reason I took the LOL off), threads about NieNie, Meredith, Lyndsie, Kristina (who am I missing?), even the Josh-weight and TTUAC threads.

That's why I suggested that people read TTUAC all the way through -- it is the fact that they dress up their abuse in the guise of a loving relationship and being Godly that is so very dangerous. If the whole book said nothing but "whip 'em, beat 'em, hate 'em," anyone could see through it and dismiss it.

It is hard to see past "nice." But, to me, the fact that people can hold these vile beliefs and be "nice" is even more sickening than someone who is obviously mean.

Dressing up the nastiness in sweet covering, especially if it is used to pull people in, is truly disgusting. One of my favorite things about FJ is the way some here can look at a lovely-seeming blog with lovely-seeming words, and cut right to the heart of evil that is behind all of the frou-frou.

But some people have a hard time seeing past "nice." I do understand that -- it's very powerful, and I think that both nature and nurture program us to relax and be pulled in by it.

Maybe I see the dichotomy so easily because I have dealt with it for so long. I have spent more than 50 years meeting people who seem so nice, but think I'm going to hell and want to make me over into someone else.

When I was younger, this came as a hurtful shock -- how could such kindly-seeming people sweetly suggest that just being myself was unacceptable, a sin?

How could they tell me "I love you, that's why I want you to stop being you!" :shock:

Even outside of the realm of religion, I've been badly burned by people who value "nice" over true kindness and acceptance, or who have Big Projects to Save the World, but are nasty and/or useless one-on-one.

So I learned to discount "nice" -- it is not remotely meaningful. I'll take things like being truly kind, not arrogant, not looking for brownie points, open to the fact that one could be wrong, not trying to make other people into you, not limiting your children's lives, over "nice," any time.

It seems that most people on this board care deeply about children. I do, as well.

To me, that translates to being saddened when one of the fundies is pregnant again. I don't wish ill on the woman or the pregnancy, but I hurt to think that another person will be brought into that life. I can't help it.

And I hurt regardless of whether the child, once born, will be dressed in onesies that say "God hates fags" or just carefully raised and shaped to believe that only their parents' rigid definition of how life should be is the only choice.

It means that I mourn when I see pictures of the cute kids or hear about them. They are being raised to live in a tiny, tiny box, with so little opportunity. The box may be trimmed in gingham and rickrack, and full of homegrown heirloom tomatoes, but it is still a prison.

It may seem to favor the boys over the girls, exhorting them to grow into arrogant men who rule the roost, but that is just as filthy a thing to do to the boys as it is to the girls who will grow up to be their trapped wives.

If any of those children are GLBT, or might want to limit how many kids they have when they grow up, or a girl who might want to have a profession, or a boy who might want to stay home with his kids, they are being raised to kill who they are inside. They are learning to hate themselves, and call their perfectly lovely interests "sins."

They are being raised to hate me - they may call it love, but that is bullshit rhetoric. Their parents may say they want to save me from "sin," but they want to kill who I am, just because I was raised a Jew, became an atheist, made love to men I loved despite not being married, work for a living, and don't condemn non-Christians or LGBT people.

They are being raised to attempt to take over my free and wonderful country to form a theocracy, and put us all in that little box.

Sorry, but even with flowers and fabulous recipes and flowing hair, even with the genuine love those parents may have for their children, that's not nice.

[formergothardite]

This.

I've been meaning to post to this thread, and just didn't get a chance until now.

So much of our disagreement on FJ seems to center, in some way, around this issue.

It has entered into the distraction on the LOLmodesty thread due to Mompom's talking about the family in question being nice (as opposed to my having accidentally made a sexual innuendo about a minor, which is a valid complaint and the reason I took the LOL off), threads about NieNie, Meredith, Lyndsie, Kristina (who am I missing?), even the Josh-weight and TTUAC threads.

That's why I suggested that people read TTUAC all the way through -- it is the fact that they dress up their abuse in the guise of a loving relationship and being Godly that is so very dangerous. If the whole book said nothing but "whip 'em, beat 'em, hate 'em," anyone could see through it and dismiss it.

It is hard to see past "nice." But, to me, the fact that people can hold these vile beliefs and be "nice" is even more sickening than someone who is obviously mean.

Dressing up the nastiness in sweet covering, especially if it is used to pull people in, is truly disgusting. One of my favorite things about FJ is the way some here can look at a lovely-seeming blog with lovely-seeming words, and cut right to the heart of evil that is behind all of the frou-frou.

But some people have a hard time seeing past "nice." I do understand that -- it's very powerful, and I think that both nature and nurture program us to relax and be pulled in by it.

Maybe I see the dichotomy so easily because I have dealt with it for so long. I have spent more than 50 years meeting people who seem so nice, but think I'm going to hell and want to make me over into someone else.

When I was younger, this came as a hurtful shock -- how could such kindly-seeming people sweetly suggest that just being myself was unacceptable, a sin?

How could they tell me "I love you, that's why I want you to stop being you!" :shock:

Even outside of the realm of religion, I've been badly burned by people who value "nice" over true kindness and acceptance, or who have Big Projects to Save the World, but are nasty and/or useless one-on-one.

So I learned to discount "nice" -- it is not remotely meaningful. I'll take things like being truly kind, not arrogant, not looking for brownie points, open to the fact that one could be wrong, not trying to make other people into you, not limiting your children's lives, over "nice," any time.

It seems that most people on this board care deeply about children. I do, as well.

To me, that translates to being saddened when one of the fundies is pregnant again. I don't wish ill on the woman or the pregnancy, but I hurt to think that another person will be brought into that life. I can't help it.

And I hurt regardless of whether the child, once born, will be dressed in onesies that say "God hates fags" or just carefully raised and shaped to believe that only their parents' rigid definition of how life should be is the only choice.

It means that I mourn when I see pictures of the cute kids or hear about them. They are being raised to live in a tiny, tiny box, with so little opportunity. The box may be trimmed in gingham and rickrack, and full of homegrown heirloom tomatoes, but it is still a prison.

It may seem to favor the boys over the girls, exhorting them to grow into arrogant men who rule the roost, but that is just as filthy a thing to do to the boys as it is to the girls who will grow up to be their trapped wives.

If any of those children are GLBT, or might want to limit how many kids they have when they grow up, or a girl who might want to have a profession, or a boy who might want to stay home with his kids, they are being raised to kill who they are inside. They are learning to hate themselves, and call their perfectly lovely interests "sins."

They are being raised to hate me - they may call it love, but that is bullshit rhetoric. Their parents may say they want to save me from "sin," but they want to kill who I am, just because I was raised a Jew, became an atheist, made love to men I loved despite not being married, work for a living, and don't condemn non-Christians or LGBT people.

They are being raised to attempt to take over my free and wonderful country to form a theocracy, and put us all in that little box.

Sorry, but even with flowers and fabulous recipes and flowing hair, even with the genuine love those parents may have for their children, that's not nice.

Wonderfully said. I scares me that there are posters here, non-fundie, stand-up against people like Gothard, Phillips, and Botkins posters, who still get sucked in to the idea of "Well, they are so nice and sweet, so they aren't bad." idea about some of the fundie bloggers who know how to hide and sugar coat the dark side of their beliefs. It just shows how dangerous those sort of bloggers and fundies are.

[Guest Anonymous]

As someone who has personally identified as a moderately conservative Christian in the past, and now lives as a liberal atheist, I tend to read fundie blogs and just see a person with a particular set of beliefs at a particular stage in their lives - open to change just like me, or any of us really.

I tend to feel more harshly about the older and outspoken ones, who judge and condemn anyone different to them, and I also strongly dislike the younger know-it-alls (like Anna T) who make grand proclamations about God's will for other women in circumstances they've not encountered yet.

On the other hand, there are bloggers that I have followed for a long while, who have changed their views over time and I find that really encouraging - and so I keep watching some particular (you might call them 'pet') fundies, in the hope that they too might find a way out and tell the world about it.

One example is Molly Aley, who always did seem like a nice girl, but managed to get herself into cringeworthy online flaming wars at times over the years, when she very occasionally would advocate the Pearl books, or say thoughtless and hideous things about other bloggers who happened to be gay. She had a strong following because she was a very warm, intelligent, all-round 'nice' girl, but at certain times she acted like a sulky bully.

I always found her interesting because she never censored the comments on her blog and so her whole story played out online, including her eventual revelations that she herself had been bullied and abused throughout her marriage, and news of the breakdown of her 'picture perfect' family which caused her to engage in endless self-examination and resulted in a complete about-turn from fundamental Christianity. I believe that she had to stop writing under her real identity in order to protect herself and her kids when she finally divorced her abusive husband, but the things she did write were a fascinating insight into what draws people into fundamentalism and what ultimately causes them to run for the hills.

My hypothesis is that many, many people who 'become' fundie as young adults, tend to be people from quite troubled backgrounds, with low self-esteem and a sense of having messed life up, and consequently they are particularly attracted by the promises of family, community and happiness that can come from following 'God's Plan' as it is touted by the fundie church in general. Although these people can behave atrociously, I see many of them as victims too, and that is what draws me back again and again to sites like this and to blogs like theirs.

[thoughtful]

Wonderfully said. I scares me that there are posters here, non-fundie, stand-up against people like Gothard, Phillips, and Botkins posters, who still get sucked in to the idea of "Well, they are so nice and sweet, so they aren't bad." idea about some of the fundie bloggers who know how to hide and sugar coat the dark side of their beliefs. It just shows how dangerous those sort of bloggers and fundies are.

Thanks for the compliment.

As I said, it's very easy to get sucked in by "nice." I don't condemn posters here who don't quite get it yet, or who have mixed feelings about some of the fundies.

Becoming a rigid fundie, leaving that world, seeing through the false front - each of those things can be a process, not something set in stone.

I have hope for some of our "but they seem so nice" posters, as well as some of the fundies.

But I will not be fooled by "nice."

[Turtle]

I could never feel any warm fuzzies toward a person who unashamedly, repeatedly and proudly hit their kids.

I try to be open minded and accepting of other people's religious practices, but when someone's religious worldview leads them to justify child abuse, I have nothing but disgust. I do feel pity for a lot of the young women raised in this movement and I see them as victims of their upbringing, but I don't view them as "nice" people.

[thoughtful]

As someone who has personally identified as a moderately conservative Christian in the past, and now lives as a liberal atheist, I tend to read fundie blogs and just see a person with a particular set of beliefs at a particular stage in their lives - open to change just like me, or any of us really.

I tend to feel more harshly about the older and outspoken ones, who judge and condemn anyone different to them, and I also strongly dislike the younger know-it-alls (like Anna T) who make grand proclamations about God's will for other women in circumstances they've not encountered yet.

On the other hand, there are bloggers that I have followed for a long while, who have changed their views over time and I find that really encouraging - and so I keep watching some particular (you might call them 'pet') fundies, in the hope that they too might find a way out and tell the world about it.

(snip)

My hypothesis is that many, many people who 'become' fundie as young adults, tend to be people from quite troubled backgrounds, with low self-esteem and a sense of having messed life up, and consequently they are particularly attracted by the promises of family, community and happiness that can come from following 'God's Plan' as it is touted by the fundie church in general. Although these people can behave atrociously, I see many of them as victims too, and that is what draws me back again and again to sites like this and to blogs like theirs.

I also see many of the practicing fundies as victims, regardless of age, and would celebrate any of them leaving that garbage behind and changing.

I guess, to me, it's a bit like seeing a fear-aggressive dog. I may be sympathetic to the fact that the dog was made that way by his upbringing or a reaction to bad things, but I still know that he is dangerous.

And, if I see that desensitization and training is changing that dog's behavior, and that he is becoming gentle, I'm happy for him and the people and animals around him.

In the meantime, though, the dog, and the fundies, are still dangerous.

And the fundy's sweet facades are like the aggressive dog's owner telling hundreds of people daily "Oh, he's so sweet -- come pet him!" so they can get mauled.

OK, so I milked that simile to death -- sorry. :)

[formergothardite]

I'll admit that there are blogs I read that I start off think, well these people aren't bad, because their blogs just LOOK so happy and peaceful and all around wonderful. But then when I make myself think about what they really believe, I have to accept that their core beliefs are bad and and all the fluffy pictures and gushing posts can't detract from that. It is hard to see through the false sweet front, especially if you know the people. I know a ton of fundies and it is hard to admitt to myself that the nicer ones are just as bad as the in your face, you are going to hell ones. They all believe the same things and they all would jump at the chance to turn the world into their version of a christian nation.