Good mothers send their daughters back to alcoholics

[Koala]

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/07/seventy-times-seven-times.html

Her husband has withdrawn from her physically and emotionally. Everyone told her she should leave him. He even threatened to move out. I told her she couldn't leave him. God wanted her to fight for her marriage. She started praying for him, fixing nice dinners for him, not arguing, and sending him appreciative notes. He is softening.

Many of her friends are either divorced or divorcing. She is an amazing model to them of what it looks like to fight for your marriage. They will even put him down in front of her but she continues steadfastly to fight for her marriage.

I am reading a novel. {It is so good. I highly recommend it!} A young woman marries a man who turns out to be an alcoholic and can't even keep a job. She has finally had enough and runs home to mama. Her mom told her they are one flesh and she needs to forgive him 70 times 7 times. She sent her back to her husband.

When Jesus said we are to forgive 70 times 7 times, it includes our husbands. We are not to leave them or divorce them. When they are unhappy and distant, they are miserable and need you in their corner praying and fighting for him. Remember, it is a spiritual battle.

Satan would love to destroy my friend's marriage but she puts on the full armor of God every day ready to do battle. She wants to keep her family together. This is what we are all called to do.

Glad my mom didn't take Lori's advice. I'm not sure either one of us would have lived to tell about it. Cause you know, some alcoholics beat their spouses...a lot. Others beat their children. I was lucky. My mother got out before the abuse escalated to include me. But I saw him abuse her and promised to protect her- that was enough to make her leave. Wonder what Lori would have said? Wonder who my mom would have become if she had continued to endure the beatings and the affairs? Wonder who I would have been...who I would have chosen for a husband...how tragically both of our lives might have turned out. Yes, thank god there was no Lori around to influence my mom when I was a kid.

[lilwriter85]

Lori's post is lame and stupid. She is basing advice partially on a Christian novel. She is not addressing that alcoholism and other forms of addictions are complex problems that don't have one size fits all solution. My aunt forgave my uncle for his alcoholism and she worked with him to get sober. My uncle wasn't physically abusive to my aunt. I know a few people including a man who left their physically abusive spouses with addiction problems.

Lori is one of dumbest fundie bloggers out there and I think she is much more dangerous than Zsu in some ways.

[rward]

So, god wants us to enable addicts? Lovely advice.

Grandpa came back from WWII a rage filled alcoholic. Grandma enabled him for a few years, then came to her senses, took my mother and moved out. As soon as she stopped enabling him, Grandpa sobered up. Only once he'd been sober for 6 months straight did Grandma move back, with the caveat that one sip of beer and she'd be gone for good. He never took another drink for 60 years.

[pamplemousse]

The more about and of Lori Alexander (who is a monster) I read, the more I am convinced that good mothers, overall, do the exact opposite of what she tells them to do.*

*Overall, because I'm guessing that maybe once or so, she actually did or said something that genuinely helped someone.

**Wo0t! I'm now the sin in the camp! Rotten one, aren't I? :twisted:

[Jana814]

So, god wants us to enable addicts? Lovely advice.

Grandpa came back from WWII a rage filled alcoholic. Grandma enabled him for a few years, then came to her senses, took my mother and moved out. As soon as she stopped enabling him, Grandpa sobered up. Only once he'd been sober for 6 months straight did Grandma move back, with the caveat that one sip of beer and she'd be gone for good. He never took another drink for 60 years.

What an interesting story. Good for your grandmother for leaving him. Glad he sobered up.

[kpmom]

Another "I knew this was Lori just from the title of the post".

As someone upthread said, this is not a one size fits all situation. Alcoholism often includes abuse. Who (besides Lori) would send a loved one back to that? You can "forgive" someone without having to subject yourself (and your children) to a dysfunctional situation.

[Arete]

I've got nothing except, "What a twat!".

[lizziesmom]

The sad part about Loi and her ilk is that some people actually take her advice.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Disgusting. Good mothers support their children, and protect them, whether that child is a newborn or a 30 year old seeking help from an abusive relationship.

There are a lot of people who die from being in abusive relationships, and a good mother would not want their child to be one of those people.

[Loveday]

A 'guest' posted a scathing retort, but it got scrubbed pretty quickly; I'm going to guess it was someone here on FJ. 8-)

My great grandmother divorced her husband because of his alcoholism and abusive behaviour to both her and her children. Unfortunately she didn't divorce him until some of her children were grown and out of the house. It was the late 1920s, early 1930s, and she wouldn't have been able to take care of her children on her own if they'd all still been at home. He beat his wife, he beat his children, and sometimes he tried to sexually abuse his daughters. He didn't succeed with my grandmother, she fought back and threatened to tell the neighbours, but she doesn't know if he ever succeeded with her sisters. My grandmother bears emotional scars to this day, and she's a hundred years old. :cry:

My mother divorced my father after my brother and I left home. He was also an alcoholic (this is the other side of my family, so I'm doubly at risk of addictive behaviours, which is why I don't drink), and life with him was miserable. We all walked on eggshells around him, but anything--or nothing--would set him off. Constant verbal abuse and occasional physical abuse. He gave me a fat lip once when he thought I'd hidden his car keys (he'd misplaced them and found them later, but no apology was forthcoming). I used to hope and pray that Mom would take my brother and me and leave him, but she never did. She had a full time job by the time I was in high school, but I think she was afraid she wouldn't be able to afford to finish raising us if she left him before we were grown.

Lori, you know nothing about this. Nothing. You need to shut the hell up before one of your leghumpers gets killed by her husband because she took your stupid advice. Advice that came out of a fluffy, ignorant piece of poorly written 'Christian' fiction and your own warped, ignorant mind.

[latraviata]

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/07/seventy-times-seven-times.html

Glad my mom didn't take Lori's advice. I'm not sure either one of us would have lived to tell about it. Cause you know, some alcoholics beat their spouses...a lot. Others beat their children. I was lucky. My mother got out before the abuse escalated to include me. But I saw him abuse her and promised to protect her- that was enough to make her leave. Wonder what Lori would have said? Wonder who my mom would have become if she had continued to endure the beatings and the affairs? Wonder who I would have been...who I would have chosen for a husband...how tragically both of our lives might have turned out. Yes, thank god there was no Lori around to influence my mom when I was a kid.

Lori is a perfect candidate for Dr. Phil's advisory board.

[GeoBQn]

It makes me think of when I was training to be a volunteer at a women's shelter. They shared the story of a woman who said, "I knew from the second my husband walked through the door whether he would be hitting me that day, but he always waited until after he had a few drinks. I knew that I had to leave him when I realized that he wasn't an alcoholic who hit me--he was an abuser who drank."

[ADoyle90815]

Disgusting. Good mothers support their children, and protect them, whether that child is a newborn or a 30 year old seeking help from an abusive relationship.

There are a lot of people who die from being in abusive relationships, and a good mother would not want their child to be one of those people.

Exactly. The scary thing is that some leghumper is going to take Lori the fucking monster's advice and end up murdered by her husband. Good mothers protect their children, even if they're adults trying to escape an abusive relationship.

[snarkyjan]

Exactly. The scary thing is that some leghumper is going to take Lori the fucking monster's advice and end up murdered by her husband. Good mothers protect their children, even if they're adults trying to escape an abusive relationship.

And when (not if) it happens, Lori The Monster will offer up the same excuse that Michael Pearl did after Lydia Schatz was murdered: "She must have been doing it wrong".

[lilwriter85]

I hate to say this, but I worry about Lori's daughters much more than the Maxwell girls or girls from other fundie families. As we all know Lori gives shitty advice. This isn't the first time she has encouraged women to stay with abusive husbands. It is scary that some of Lori's online fangirls are taking her advice. But she also mentors women through her church and she has her two daughters. She said that some women have rejected her as a mentor. I'm glad that some women have rejected Lori. But some haven't. Yesterday she blogged about Debi Pearl's book Created to be His Help Meet. She whined about women who gave the book back.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/07/she-refuses-to-read-it.html

As many of you know, Created To Be His Help Meet by Debi Pearl is my favorite marriage book which changed my marriage around completely. It is the book I use to mentor women. Once women read the book, they want to share it with every one they know.

Unfortunately, a lot of women don't like that book at all. The reviews on Amazon for it are terrible. I have had women give the book back to me and I have even gotten in trouble for promoting it. It is very sad because there are many women who need to read the book and refuse to.

Here is a comment from my post titled A Sex Starved Husband ~

I see mostly women commenting here. I am a man, my circumstances are because my wife has a personality disorder, which she will not acknowledge. But a few years ago, a stranger gave me a book for my wife to read. She won't read the full book. But I made all three of my daughters read it because I believe it really captures the heart of a man and it was written by a pastor's wife. I actually was in tears reading some of it, because I could identify with it so much. I believe every woman who intends to get married or is married should read this book. I do think that it is a bit dated for some of the roles of women as far as staying home to raise children, but if you can look past that, there is much godly wisdom backed by a ton of scripture for women and how their man feels and functions. The book is Created To Be His Help Meet.

I think many men would agree with him. Debi uses some strong language and extreme stories to get her points across but her conclusions are all scripturally based.

So what do you do if a friend of yours needs to read it badly or a wife refuses to read it if her husband gives it to her? Pray. This is all we can do. We need to pray that God will soften their hearts and make them want to hear the truth. Only God has the power to do that.

We should always have teachable hearts wanting to know truth. Unfortunately, in today's rebellious climate, few people want truth or seek it out even among Christians. But never lose heart. God is still on His throne and can soften the hardest heart so faith can grow.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It makes me think of when I was training to be a volunteer at a women's shelter. They shared the story of a woman who said, "I knew from the second my husband walked through the door whether he would be hitting me that day, but he always waited until after he had a few drinks. I knew that I had to leave him when I realized that he wasn't an alcoholic who hit me--he was an abuser who drank."

QFT. In vino veritas.

Alcohol is a depressant, and it suppresses inhibitions. In plain English, it doesn't really make a person angry and abusive - it just allows the angry and abusive side of someone's personality to come out. If I drink too much, I fall asleep. If my husband drinks too much, he just gets even friendlier. We have a family wedding this weekend, so I'll have to stay sober so that I can stay awake (and drive home), while I know that my husband will take at least an hour to say goodbye because he'll be talking to everyone and giving them hugs.

[fatcat]

This post reminds me of something my mother told me once. Her father had some mental problems, and took out most of his anger on her (there were 3 other kids). Beat her, locked her in the closet, etc. I asked her once if she was still angry with him. She said something to the effect of sometimes yes, but she had accepted it now, and since he had mental problems she found it easier to forgive him. She said she couldn't forgive her mother, though, for not leaving him or at least intervening.

Back then I thought it was really unfair of her to blame her mother so strongly. Now, however, I can see her point, even if I still don't entirely agree. Advice like Lori's can scar children and turn them against both of their parents.

[Childless]

If my husband ever hit me, I'd take my son and leave as soon as it happened. I'd file for divorce the next day. I have enough respect for myself and love for my son that I wouldn't put up with that shit. Lori can fuck off.

[Jana814]

If my husband ever hit me, I'd take my son and leave as soon as it happened. I'd file for divorce the next day. I have enough respect for myself and love for my son that I wouldn't put up with that shit. Lori can fuck off.

Good for u. I don't have kids but if that ever happened to me I'd do the same thing.

[tenth muse]

I'm really glad that she's not my mum, that's for sure.

On alcoholism in general, my great grandfather, who from all accounts was rather harsh on his children (perhaps it was the era in which he lived) still had his standards. When he found out that his grown up and married daughter's husband was an abusive alcoholic, he grabbed one of his younger sons (my grandfather) and went straight over to her house to pick her up and get her out of there. That was one think that he could never abide by.

[rward]

What an interesting story. Good for your grandmother for leaving him. Glad he sobered up.

I only ever knew him as the kindest, gentlest, calmest man I ever met. Killing people and seeing them killed messed him up, he drank to escape the memories, but drinking unleashed his pain and my mother remembers hiding under her bed from his rages. He never hit her or Grandma, but he would scream and punch walls and break things.

I support our soldiers, but I can't support wars. They do such terrible damage to each and every soldier, physically wounded or not.

[Talitha Cumi]

My sister just left her husband. He is an alcoholic, but held it together for years and years... until he started smoking synthetic marijuana, which is not like pot at all, but causes hallucinations and psychosis. He cheated on her. He hit her a couple times. She finally left because he kept running away for days on end, and it scared her and the kids. She is convinced he's going to kill himself, and she doesn't want the kids to see that.

She's putting her kids first. As she should. Lori Alexander is a monster.

[Jana814]

My sister just left her husband. He is an alcoholic, but held it together for years and years... until he started smoking synthetic marijuana, which is not like pot at all, but causes hallucinations and psychosis. He cheated on her. He hit her a couple times. She finally left because he kept running away for days on end, and it scared her and the kids. She is convinced he's going to kill himself, and she doesn't want the kids to see that.

She's putting her kids first. As she should. Lori Alexander is a monster.

Good for your sister putting her kids 1st. Did she know he had a problem before she married him.

[laura oz]

This doesn't shock me one damn bit. My grandparents were hard core fundies, and had more money than God. When my mom left my stepdad cause he beat the hell out of her on a regular basis, they wouldn't help her one damn bit. She and I lived in a TINY trailer and rationed out rolls of Ritz crackers till I turned 15 and she could sign for me to go to work. I worked because I got fucking tired of both of us being hungry, and her waitress job didn't provide for much but the basics. They never even bought us a 2 liter Pepsi. After about a year after their divorce was final, my grandparents started "counseling" my mom, and convinced her that it was God making her life so hard because she had broken the vows she had taken before Him. My dad had died and she was a widow when she met shithead. Long story short, they got remarried and I fell apart crying before, during, and after the wedding. I was hiccup crying because I KNEW what our lives were going to be like. I was sitting on the front porch while everyone was having refreshments in the back yard at the at home wedding, and I felt a vice grip on my neck and a voice I knew only too well hissed in my ear for me to "shut my fucking mouth because I loved my mother didn't I and I really didn't want to cause her any more pain, did I?" Then he made those goddamn pig noises he always made when I would get something out of the fridge, and told me to grow up and go get some of the food that was in the back yard. I hated him then, I hate him now, and I hope if there's a hell he burns in it with his back broken and his eyes wide open. The only bright side was my grandfather had made him sign the house over to my mother as a condition to the marriage. One day, I snapped cause he said I was fat, and threw a heavy lamp (had to be the adrenaline that gave my 98 lb frame the strength to pick it up) directly at his head. I really think I had every intention of killing him when I threw it. Anyway, when he told my mother he wanted me out of HIS house NOW, I said words that actually tasted good coming out of my mouth, "This is MY mother's house and I'm not going any GD where. Where are YOU going to go?" He left that day with his brats that always came first, they got divorced again, and life got better because WE made it get better. Lori doesn't shock me one bit. Sorry for the rant and probably TMI but this got under my skin.

[Talitha Cumi]

Good for your sister putting her kids 1st. Did she know he had a problem before she married him.

She had no idea. He hid the drinking very well, and the drugs only started a couple years ago. He had a death scare earlier this year, and confessed to her that over the course of their 11-year marriage, he had spent 100k on drugs, massage parlors, and strip clubs. When she heard that, that was it. He made a suicide attempt before she got out of the house, but that just sealed her resolve. She's living with my parents now. Her ex quit his job rather than go on medical leave, so he's not paying anything in child support. He got COBRA for himself, but not for her and the kids.

She's not a fundie, not submissive, but she tried to make it work for so long. She made excuses for him, did her best to help him come across in a good light. That's more than Lori does with Ken, so who is Lori to talk? A monster, that's who.