Feminists are all commies!

[JesusFightClub]

It's jesus-is-savior.com so I normally wouldn't even bother, but this.

jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Feminism/american_communism_and_feminism.htm

"Rape is an expression of ... male supremacy ... the age-old economic, political and cultural exploitation of women by men."

Does this sound like a modern radical feminist? Guess again. It is from a 1948 American Communist Party pamphlet entitled "Woman Against Myth" by Mary Inman.

No, it sounds like common sense. What else is rape but the expression of a belief in male supremacy? I don't think commies were the first to find that out.

In fact, Weigand, a lecturer at Smith College, shows that modern feminism is a direct outgrowth of American Communism. There is nothing that feminists said or did in the 1960's-1980's that wasn't prefigured in the CPUSA of the 1940's and 1950's. Many second-wave feminist leaders were "red diaper babies," the children of Communists.

This would only work if feminism began in the 1960s and was invented by Americans. Neither criteria apply.

Communists pioneered the political and cultural analysis of woman's oppression. They originated women's studies, and advocated public daycare, birth control, abortion and even children's rights. They forged key feminist concepts such as "the personal is the political" and techniques such as "consciousness raising."

This sounds like communists are great. Children getting rights? Women going on the Pill? I think these are normally regarded as good things.

"The personal is the political" as a concept and "consciousness raising" as a concept go waaaay back before feminism was even thought of. Marxists invented neither belief.

Communist women who made up 40% of the party wanted more freedom to attend party meetings. After the publication of "Women Against Myth" in 1948, the CPUSA initiated a process of "re-educating" men that we recognize only too well today.

For example, in the party newspaper "The Daily Worker" a photo caption of a man with a young child read, "Families are stronger and happier if the father knows how to fix the cereal, tie the bibs and take care of the youngsters."

OMG THE HORROR. Men were supposed to understand children's needs? Why, that strikes at the very core of their existence.

Is it just me or is the idea of "women wanting to go somewhere, so their male partners look after the kids for a couple of hours" not very shocking?

The Party ordered men who didn't take the woman question seriously to complete "control tasks involving study on the woman question." In 1954 the Los Angeles branch disciplined men for "hogging discussion at club meetings, bypassing women comrades in leadership and making sex jokes degrading to women."

We still have this issue nowadays. In a lot of anarchist groups the discussion facilitator will say "Let her speak!" when a man is persistently speaking over a woman. In both anarcho and commie groups you will get told off (at least) for "daft wimmen" jokes or jokes which centre around women being stupid or incapable.

The reason for this is that we regard women as having equal rights with men. They have many ideas and thoughts just as men do. If they are constantly put in a box and told "be quiet, the men are talking politics, go and make the tea" not only would the Party lose the support, ideas and commitment of female activists, we'd also be losing their trust and our own commitment to equality.

Communist women formalized a sophisticated Marxist analysis of the "woman question." The books In Women's Defense (1940) by Mary Inman, Century of Struggle (1954) by Eleanor Flexner and The Unfinished Revolution (1962) by Eve Merriam recorded women's oppression and decried sexism in mass culture and language. For example, Mary Inman argued that "manufactured femininity" and "overemphasis on beauty" keeps women in subjection (33).

ONOEZ NOT A SOPHISTICATED ANALYSIS

I can do you a Marxist critique and a feminist critique of emphasis on beauty in, like, 2 minutes. It's not particularly tough. Considering it's a woman who writes this site, I want to know if you'd prefer more sexism in mass culture and language. Go on, let me in on how that would benefit you.

[debrand]

All that does is make me want to be a communist and I like capitalism. LOL For right wing Americans, the word communist is seen as one of the ultimate evils- a step down from Hitler. That is why they try to make connections between communism and feminism so that people are afraid to ask for women's rights. The problem is that communism is not evil. Feminism didn't originate with communism but even if it did, so what? I can accept that some things about communism are good and some things are bad; just like with capitalism.

[JesusFightClub]

Because I can, and even though jesus-is-savior.com reckons Katy Perry is "demon-possessed"...

Feminism's roots in Marxist Communism explain a great deal about this curious but dangerous movement. It explains:

Why the " woman's movement" hates femininity and imposes a political-economic concept like "equality" on a personal, biological and mystical relationship.

Why the "women's movement" also embraces equality of race and class.

I literally have never met, ever, any Marxist who hates femininity. And I've met a shitload of Marxists.

I would also love a clear definition of "personal, biological and mystical".

AND OMG WOMEN DON'T WANT TO BE RACIST! What heathens!

Why they want revolution ("transformation") and have a messianic vision of a gender-less utopia.

Again, what feminist wants a genderless utopia?

What feminists want, in my experience, is NOT that women are discovered to be either men or sexless. They want women to be treated fairly and encouraged in the workplace just as men are. They want to walk along the street without whistles and cat-calls, to be respected and seen as valuable contributors to the world (not just decorative ornaments) and to not be regarded as silly fluffy bunnies who are there to look cute and pouting for men.

What daft cows, eh.

Why they believe human nature is infinitely malleable and can be shaped by indoctrination and coercion.

Why they engage in endless, mind-numbing theorizing, doctrinal disputes and factionalism.

Why truth for them is a "social construct" defined by whomever has power, and appearances are more important than reality.

Why they reject God, nature and scientific evidence in favour of their political agenda.

Why they refuse to debate, don't believe in free speech, and suppress dissenting views.

Why they behave like a quasi-religious cult, or like the Red Guard.

Feminists behave nothing like the Red Guard. I know whereof I speak.

The factionalism I will agree with, but reckon it's nothing worse than Christianity and has resulted in far fewer deaths.

The "God, nature and scientific evidence" is apparently that women were born to simper, wear long dresses and submit to men. Oh, and love babies and hate jobs.

Well, a wee bittie news for you. I am a woman and pleased and happy to be a woman. I also shave my head, wear trousers and army boots, and have no babies and will not have any in the future. Women are all sorts of women and they are all female.

The power worship, again, I have found in precisely zero feminists. And lack of debate? Where and when has this happened? Feminists will "no platform" some people, if their ideas verge on "Get the lil' ladies back to the kitchen and don't allow them in the universities". As no-one would expect a group of black Americans to listen to a lecture which was about "How negroes, who haven't the intelligence God gave the white man, aren't fit to vote."

[2xx1xy1JD]

JFC, I thought you'd be anxious to take that piece as a compliment, LOL.

Picture a Venn diagram, folks. There is some overlap in the two movements, but it is not a 1:1 correspondence. Not all communists are feminists (former Romanian dictator Ceausescu certainly wasn't, with his forced birth policies), and not all feminists are communists. As well, note that not all left-wing positions are actually communist. There are a fair number of women who are social democrats. Where connections do exist, they are pretty logical. People who have been marginalized get together, and as outsiders are more likely to criticize existing social structures and seek common ground in fighting oppression. It's not a matter of getting external marching orders. In fact, there were some high-profile defections from the Communist ranks over human rights concerns when the rhetoric didn't match reality (and a quick google search shows that Makow was aware of the UJPO, which split with the Community Party in 1957).

The author of that piece, however, is beyond logic. I clicked on his name, was taken to his website, and on the second item down found this comment from him:

"Makow comment - "1984" is here - Levin is more proof society has been subverted by a Masonic Jewish (Illuminati) satanic cult. - See more at: http://www.savethemales.ca/#sthash.yUWaRmM0.dpuf"

His train has already made the one-way trip to crazy-town. Unfortunately for my sense of national pride, he's also Canadian. Seems like he was quite bright and somewhat successful at one point (he invented a board game which did well), but then got obsessed with conspiracy theory and hate mongering.

[Shirley MacLaine]

I'm kind of into the idea of a genderless utopia ;)

[Arete]

Nothing would thrill my communist relatives more than if being a feminist guaranteed you would turn out to be a communist. Alas, I am proof positive this simply isn't the case. Much to their disappointment.

I have also met enough communists in my life to know that some communist men are definitely misogynists, much to my disappointment.

[Mama Mia]

I think the various social political and civil rights movements very naturally led to increased awareness by women that they were being marginalized in many ways. If you are protesting for economic or social equality, but all of the talking and leading is done by men...it kind of stands out.

[crazyforkate]

Cool, we're all communists now! Someone change our background to red.

[miffy]

:lol: I'm practically Senator McCarthy, definitely not a commie.

[debrand]

Cool, we're all communists now! Someone change our background to red.

I'm not a communist but if the choice came between capitalism without equal rights or communism with equal rights I guess I'd be a communist.

[alcharisi]

"...My grandpa is a commie,

My grandma pushes tea,

My sister wears a moustache,

My brother wears a dress,

Goodness, gracious, that's why I'm a mess!"

(West Side Story, "Gee, Officer Krupke!")

Aha! The clue to the insidious connection between communism and the destruction of gender roles was hidden all this time in musical theater! Fiendishly clever, since everyone knows that Broadway is the capital of Gaydom, and no self-respecting patriarchist would ever set foot there.

Feminist social democrat here--because of this amazing concept known as intersectionality.

[canela]

What feminists want, in my experience, is NOT that women are discovered to be either men or sexless. They want women to be treated fairly and encouraged in the workplace just as men are. They want to walk along the street without whistles and cat-calls, to be respected and seen as valuable contributors to the world (not just decorative ornaments) and to not be regarded as silly fluffy bunnies who are there to look cute and pouting for men.

JFC, you are a genius. You were so succinct and eloquent that I'd think even the stupidest fundy could understand it. I'd like to think that now that you've leaked our "deep, dark secrets" the idiots would see the light and come to the un-dark side. Ha! A girl can dream.

And I count myself in the non-communist, definitely feminist camp.

[Full enough quiver]

So,let me see if I have this right- wanting equal rights is communist, and communist = bad. Being a mysoginistic dill hole = good. Alrighty then. Where do I sign up for the party that wants to treat my daughters and I like human beings instead of chattel?

[snarktastic]

Communists pioneered the political and cultural analysis of woman's oppression. They originated women's studies, and advocated public daycare, birth control, abortion and even children's rights. They forged key feminist concepts such as "the personal is the political" and techniques such as "consciousness raising."

n the party newspaper "The Daily Worker" a photo caption of a man with a young child read, "Families are stronger and happier if the father knows how to fix the cereal, tie the bibs and take care of the youngsters."

Yay for commies!

Those Jesus-is-saviour guys might talk a lot of bullcrap but what IS true is that communists and socialists did a lot to make western countries better places. I'm not so sure about the countries where they got to lead a dictatorship, but they were champions of progress in the west.

[salex]

Yay for commies!

Those Jesus-is-saviour guys might talk a lot of bullcrap but what IS true is that communists and socialists did a lot to make western countries better places. I'm not so sure about the countries where they got to lead a dictatorship, but they were champions of progress in the west.

It strikes me that any adult who can't fix cereal, tie on a bib and care for kids has some serious issues. I mean, pour cereal in bow, pour milk in bowl.. done,. Tie on bib ( it's like tying your shoe You take one lace and make a loop take the other lace and make another bunny ear.fold one under the other and viola-- or Walla) And caring for kids. Let's see, mostly that means keeping them from getting into things that would injure them, possibly keeping them amused, definitely keeping them warm/cool, fed and changed/acess to toilet. Maybe even interacting with your child. Yeah, seems cruel to have men know these things.

[jenny_islander]

For foreign readers: Nearly all of the time, the words "socialist" and "communist" in the U.S. mean "That person wants to take all of my money and give it to people I don't know or don't like and deprive me of the magic moment when the pile of loose change I have accumulated will mushroom into millions of dollars and make me one of the Rich and Powerful, which will happen aaaaaaany day now if they just don't TOUCH MY MONEY."

The rest of the time, it generally means, "Butbutbut democracy means that I am supposed to be on top and in charge!"

[fakepigtails73]

:lol: I'm practically Senator McCarthy, definitely not a commie.

I'm not a Communist either, to say the least, but the "author" of the screed JFC posted looks like a major fucked -up weirdo. :cray-cray: And I'm being charitable.

My mother in law used to be involved in the lefist side of our independance movement in the mid-70s. She told me many anecdotes about policy meetings where you'd have a male speaker up on the podium making pro-women speeches while the group's women were the only ones making coffee, emptying ashtrays and cleaningup the place afterwards. Men afterwards went to have beer at the tavern on the other side of the street. You have to know that where I live women were not allowed to enter a tavern until 1979. Part of me wonders if these men choosing to go to the tavern to drink beer and hang out instead of a regular bar (where women were welcomed) was a deliberate way to exclude the women from the group's politics... :mouse-shock:

I'm pretty sure stuff like that occured on a regular basis in most occidental left-oriented movements...

[JesusFightClub]

(Warning! A big rant!)

Fakepigtails, definitely agree. There is still wayyyy too much sexist thinking in leftist movements in the UK, for a start.

It goes from silly little things (men deciding women should be called "sister" even if women feel uncomfortable with that) to stupid things (women being told by men that they should feel more "sisterly"/fond of children/willing to take on childcare because "those are the special skills you bring to the movement" - i.e we're not theoreticians, bless us, but we're good at smiling at people and dandling babies on our laps) - to downright wrong and bad things (women being howled down as "witches" and "cunts" during disputes, or being slandered as "getting to [a Party or union] position by sleeping their way to the top").

Of course, all this is because patriarchy goes everywhere. There are no spotless saints free of it. I'm glad to report the last example I mentioned happens extremely rarely. The middle example is getting far less common but sadly the first is still with us. I blew up at a male comrade once who said to me "It's so sweet you read all these books!"

Fortunately this is not the whole of left wing men. There are loads of male comrades who listen and address women's issues and concerns just as they would with a man. Like I said about men who will show respect to female comrades when leading a meeting, they'll make sure quieter voices aren't shouted down (especially if it's a female comrade who is new to debate), they will also take care not to use sexist language, they'll really take on board if a woman says to them that they are writing off their views as "emotional" "not logical" etc and reconsider - i.e, good comrades trying to break through the conditioning which is all around them.

This is a slightly strange example, but I was thinking of the Big Bang Theory programme :) My brother loves it so I've seen a few episodes. What struck me about this was the character of Penny. Penny's not very smart but she's "human" and "real" (as well as being sexxay). Sometimes it feels as though, in the movement, some men expect women to be the Pennys of the left. We have to listen while the men talk theory and then butt in with "OMG, are we going to have a public meeting? That's so great! You're so clever! While you guys sort out what you're going to say, I'll book the hall, apologise to Lisa for when we had to cancel the last meeting and get the leaflets ordered! Yay!" It helps if your boobs are hanging out at the time.

I was trying to think of women who were respected as theoreticians recently and drawing a bit of a blank. (Of course, I'm meaning late 20th/21st century.) Women are respected for being "working class" and bringing their experiences to the forefront. Men are respected for their understanding of theory and their class background is largely ignored.

There seems to be a clear imbalance here. We're still doing better than conservatives, but we have a long way to go.

[Irishy]

A couple of things...

JFC, you're a great advertisement for communism. No, really!

I'm thinking Ceaucescu was not a 'proper' commie.

I love Katy Perry. I would give her one myself, of I were that way inclined.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Communism= the Soviet Union (anyone here ever read "The Gulag Archipelago"?), East Germany (that country was so great that they had to build the Berlin Wall to keep the West Germans out. Uh, wait...), Castro's Cuba (Elian Gonzalez's mom lost her life trying to get the hell out of that place), North Korea, Romania... I can't think of a single communist country I would want to live in. How something works in practice matters much more than how it's supposed to work in theory.

As far as feminism in communist countries goes, that whole show is run by men. A woman is lucky if she gets to be the head Party apparatchik in a medium-sized city. For more on communism and feminism, I recommend "How We Survived Communism and Even Laughed" by Slavenka Drakulic. http://www.amazon.com/How-Survived-Comm ... 0060975407

[JesusFightClub]

FloraDoraDolly, I can see why it looks that way and I don't want to make any thread in FJ a communism debate, though I'll happily discuss these things :) I thought these particular arguments against feminism that I was complaining about were stupid because if you're a feminist, it definitely doesn't mean you're a communist, and if you're a communist, it definitely doesn't mean you're a totalitarian, and even if you are a Stalinist (god forbid) it doesn't mean you behave or believe like the fantasies of the dominionist Christian Right.

Most FJists are feminists and will see that the jesus-is-savior crap is absolute nonsense. You aren't indoctrinated (ffs) with Marxism because you believe a woman should be equal with a man. What these people are doing is trying to smear all feminists. They reckon that if they can make you feel all creepy up and down your back because you might agree with a commie on anything they can win you over to their side, True Americans aginst the Commies. Ignore them. They're lying.

[AtroposHeart]

*Yawn, nothing I haven't heard before. Seriously, feminism is the result of female oppression, not commies. Though commies did help at some points because they are more interested in oppressed classes(traditionally)