Girl Scouts/Guides/Brownies remove God from pledge.

[OkToBeTakei]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-06- ... m-promise/

No biggie really. Some discussion in Guiding circles, but not really a huge news story. Scouting and Guides are not attached to any particular church in the UK. It is not a religious organisation. Apparently it has been discussed since and because of this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... rists.html

The Guide Association will consider dropping the religious element of the 'Promise' made by its 600,000 members, following criticism from a small number of parents.

Since the Guides were launched more than 100 years ago by Robert Baden-Powell, recruits have made a pledge to God.

The current wording states: "I promise that I will do my best, to love my God, to serve the Queen and my country, to help other people and to keep the Guide Law."

Whilst the Promise is optional, only girls who have taken it can be awarded the movement's highest badges.

The review will consider whether to remove the reference to God, or to introduce separate religious and non-religious versions.

Fairly open to interpretation, it has changed a few times apparently to reflect the differing religious make-up of the UK. My God is gin. I'd be ok saying the pledge :lol:

But this.

The move emerged after two families objected to the current wording. Caroline Mason said her daughter had felt unable to take part in her Brownies enrolment in north Somerset due to the religious content of the Promise.

She told the Association: "As a family I am bringing up my children with strong morals, but no religious belief.

"This is our choice as parents and I do not understand why my daughter should be excluded from something because of it."

A second complaint came from Juliette and Barry Willett, who said their daughter Maddie had been excluded from a ceremony in Crawley Down, West Sussex.

The cases were taken up by the National Secular Society, which received a response from Jo Hobbs, the Association's Head of Guiding Development.

She confirmed that the policy was to be reviewed, saying: "On an issue as important as this, the expression of our core values, we must take a planned and measured approach to ensure that any decisions are right for our organisation.

"The issue is on the Executive Committee's agenda and when the time is right we will review our current approach."

Again this seems ok, maybe a tiny minority (two families.) But in the interests of the spirit of Baden-Powell, progressive and I quite admire their stance.

But to the bolded. FUCK OFF! Rant imminent. You make your Brownie promise when you are 7yrs old. I'm pretty sure said child just wanted to go play ladders and earn her hostess badge with her wee pals, go to camp and have a good time. I am heartily sick of parents levying such huge burdens on their kids to further their own beliefs. That goes for both religious ones and non-religious ones. Really pisses me off. 'This is our choice as parents.' Yes a truer phrase was never uttered. How about suspending those deeply important opinions for a few years and let your child take part in a harmless fun part of childhood. The things people hang on their kids, abortion marches et al. Rant over.

ANYWAY!

Robert Baden-Powell himself said.

"We do not interfere with the boy's religion, of whatever form it may be, though we encourage him to practise whatever he professes."

Incidentally when I made my promise a few short years ago :P I was more concerned with learning the words not what they were. Now I wonder what on earth did not make me, a Scot, question my allegiance to the Queen :lol:

[MamaJunebug]

Can imagine how some of the Dominionists will take this, but it should be a non-issue or one of celebration to conservative Lutherans (who I don't count as Dominionists, btw). One of their traditions (with which I still agree) advises against joining an organization that pledges or prays to an indefinite "God." They base this on their interpretation of Scripture that says you shouldn't pray with people who aren't praying to the true God.

All the conversation about who the true God is or even if there is one is not the point of my current diatribe, mind you. I simply applaud the Guides/Scouts for dropping it. I wish the US would drop it from the pledge of allegiance already. And I'm about to quietly resign my membership from a women's charitable organization (PEO) that requires "belief in God" as a prerequisite to joining. That's mostly because I've just not gelled with the PEO women, but I do look forward to not having to smile and stare into the distance twice a month while they do their little devotions.

Veering OT. Good for you, Girl Guides!

[Dev83]

Good - I always thought it was weird that it was in there, considering what a liberal organization they are.

I love the Girl Scouts.

[ADoyle90815]

Good - I always thought it was weird that it was in there, considering what a liberal organization they are.

I love the Girl Scouts.

I also thought it was weird as well, but when I was a Girl Scout, that was the closest we ever got to anything religious as my particular troop was secular since we often met at the elementary school's cafeteria. I still love the Girl Scouts since they are what fundies hate because they empower girls in that they can become more than a SAHM if they want.

[OkToBeTakei]

You do realise this is the UK Guides? Not the Girl Scouts?

[alaeangelorum]

But this.

Again this seems ok, maybe a tiny minority (two families.) But in the interests of the spirit of Baden-Powell, progressive and I quite admire their stance.

But to the bolded. FUCK OFF! Rant imminent. You make your Brownie promise when you are 7yrs old. I'm pretty sure said child just wanted to go play ladders and earn her hostess badge with her wee pals, go to camp and have a good time. I am heartily sick of parents levying such huge burdens on their kids to further their own beliefs. That goes for both religious ones and non-religious ones. Really pisses me off. 'This is our choice as parents.' Yes a truer phrase was never uttered. How about suspending those deeply important opinions for a few years and let your child take part in a harmless fun part of childhood. The things people hang on their kids, abortion marches et al. Rant over.

:

I find that quote odd... I was always under the impression (have been a Brownie, Girl Guide and Young Leader) that you could omit the 'god' part from the promise already, so it shouldn't have excluded anyone even before this change. Perhaps I was mistaken though.

ETA: actually having looked it up you used to be able to change the word 'God' but not remove it entirely.

[Lulu]

I think its the same, in Australia, with regards to Girl Guides. Which is good as we not religious and my daughter loves going.

The Boy Scouts was another matter. My 2 middle boys started but one of the reasons we stopped was the 'Prayer Book' that was sent home each week with a different boy to write a prayer in and recite it at next weeks meeting.

I am uncomfortable with activities/chaplains/shows that are aimed at children having a strong religious presence. Especially at schools.

[desertvixen]

My understanding is that here in the States, girls may change or omit the word "God" already.

[JesusFightClub]

OKToBe, I'm sort of agreeing with you and disagreeing at the same time. I may need to lie down in a darkened room ;)

However I do totally agree with what you say about children being forced into marches, demos etc. I hate it. Does the kid know why you're demonstrating except "Mummy and Daddy are upset"? Likely, no.

Nobody should demonstrate for something they don't believe in or understand. It irritates the shit out of me. People say "But my little Sophie really hates it when someone is horrible to someone else! So she should go on our anti-fascist counter-demo!" No. She shouldn't, and that is middle-class wankery. It's UAF thinking, and that's not a compliment.

[terranova]

God was optional in the pledge I took when I was a Girl Guide 22 years ago.

[OkToBeTakei]

I find that quote odd... I was always under the impression (have been a Brownie, Girl Guide and Young Leader) that you could omit the 'god' part from the promise already, so it shouldn't have excluded anyone even before this change. Perhaps I was mistaken though.

ETA: actually having looked it up you used to be able to change the word 'God' but not remove it entirely.

The whole pledge was optional, still is.

[bal maiden]

You make your Brownie promise when you are 7yrs old. I'm pretty sure said child just wanted to go play ladders and earn her hostess badge with her wee pals, go to camp and have a good time. I am heartily sick of parents levying such huge burdens on their kids to further their own beliefs. That goes for both religious ones and non-religious ones. Really pisses me off. 'This is our choice as parents.' Yes a truer phrase was never uttered. How about suspending those deeply important opinions for a few years and let your child take part in a harmless fun part of childhood. The things people hang on their kids, abortion marches et al. Rant over.

Whilst I generally agree, when I did my Brownie and Guide promises, I distinctly remember feeling uncomfortable with the God bits, and having to go to 'church parade' on Sundays. I was never allowed to carry the troop flag at church parade because I'd clearly said I didn't go to church. Actually, thinking back, it may have just been that my Brown Owl was a cow...

I wonder if they will change 'Taps' (that end of meeting song) now too? That's pretty God-y.

[LucySnowe]

When you become a British citizen, you have to promise to uphold the queen and all her heirs and successors (including RoyalBaby!), but you have a choice of whether to drag God into it or not:

Oath of allegiance

I (name) swear by Almighty God that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.

Affirmation of allegiance

I (name) do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.

I really do not see why the Girl Guides or equivalent groups can't do the same. No one seems to object that if you don't swear by Almighty God, you're somehow less faithful to Liz.