Botkin Civil War history rewrite - major fail (no surprise)

[Marian the Librarian]

After 5 long and silent months, westernconservatory.com has been updated, this time with the news that "John J. Dwyer’s book, The War Between the States, is back in print for the 150th anniversary of the War."

After a few paragraphs of Dominionist blah blah blah, and the usual sales pitch for a Botkin-created, "visually rich" timeline, comes this little gem:

And as the war raged through the South, the women were watching from upstairs windows and through closed blinds. By night they saw enemy campfires burning in their orchards and pastures. By day they saw Federal troops stealing their livestock and raiding their cellars and gardens. Thousands of battles were fought during the War between the States which never made it into the history books - the battles the women and children of the south fought against worry, loneliness and fear.

Really? Really?? All those delicate, shrinking-violet, worried wimminfolk waited out the Civil War watching through upstairs windows and closed blinds?? About 15 seconds of Internet research tells me (and anyone else who's interested) a slightly different story.

From Smithsonian Magazine (smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Women-Who-Fought-in-the-Civil-War.html):

What duties did the women perform?

They did everything that men did. They worked as scouts, spies, prison guards, cooks, nurses and they fought in combat. One of the best-documented female soldiers is Sarah Edmonds—her alias was Frank Thompson. She was a Union soldier, and she worked for a long time during the war as a nurse. You often can’t really draw a delineation between “civilian workers†and battle, because these people had to be in battle, tending to soldiers. They were often on the field or nearby trying to get to the wounded, so you could argue that it was just as dangerous for them to work as nurses as to be actively shooting and emptying gunfire.

From the Daily Mail (dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2285841/The-women-fought-men-Rare-Civil-War-pictures-female-soldiers-dressed-males-fight.html):

Some enlisted alongside their husbands as they couldn't bear to be apart.

They often served with distinction fighting in dozens of battles.

One even chose to remain a man once the war had ended.

From the Washington Post (articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-04-29/local/38892753_1_women-soldiers-antietam-deborah-sampson):

In January [2013], the Pentagon agreed to allow women to fight in combat. But what was ignored in that controversial debate was the long-forgotten history of hundreds of American women who had fought bravely in the nation’s wars, won battlefield citations for valor and died on the front lines.

Their ranks include Deborah Sampson, who served for 17 months in the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War as Robert Shurtliff, and Lucy Brewer, who served with the Marines aboard Old Ironsides as George Baker during the War of 1812. And historians have found that an estimated 400 to 1,000 women, perhaps more, disguised themselves as men and took up arms in the Civil War.

“We just lifted the ban on women in combat as if it were a new phenomenon. It’s not. said Elizabeth Leonard, a historian at Colby College in Maine who has studied women soldiers of the Civil War. “It’s that we let these stories disappear.â€

Hey, Botkins - the Bible says "Speak the truth to one another." Give it a try.

[gustava]

Dipsh*ts.

[thoughtful]

Now, y'all know better than that. Manly Yankee women may have fought and done all kinds of difficult, sweaty things, but those flowers of Dixie were trembling behind their curtains.

Every last one of them.

Except Scarlett O'Hara, who was wearing the curtains.

I know, because Papa Botkin never lies.

:roll:

[Olive Plant]

Now, y'all know better than that. Manly Yankee women may have fought and done all kinds of difficult, sweaty things, but those flowers of Dixie were trembling behind their curtains.

Every last one of them.

Except Scarlett O'Hara, who was wearing the curtains.

I know, because Papa Botkin never lies.

:roll:

Which is why the south lost. The women of the south needed to fight their battles of loneliness and fear whilst hiding in the closet, and so the godless north had an unfair advantage. It is a great comfort to reflect on the timeless truth that although the south lost, at least they didn't lose the most important treasure they possesed: the naivite of their women-folk.

[Lainey]

Why did the women fight under men's names?

[snarkyjan]

Can't you see Elizabeth Botkin, dressed in the green velvet living room drapes, with the curtain rod across her shoulders like Carol Burnett?

[Miss M]

Why did the women fight under men's names?

Because the could not technically sign up as women. If they were enlisting in a regiment to fight, they had to dress, talk and act a like men.

[Marian the Librarian]

Can't you see Elizabeth Botkin, dressed in the green velvet living room drapes, with the curtain rod across her shoulders like Carol Burnett?

"Ah saw it in the windah, and Ah just had to have it!!"

[fundiefan]

As someone who spent the majority of her college years on women in the Civil War, I tell the Botkin's to go fuck themselves.

Then again, I say that about everything they have to say so it's nothing new.

[MamaJunebug]

"Ah saw it in the windah, and Ah just had to have it!!"

Not to threadjack, but if I could only watch one TV comedy bit for the rest of my life, this would be it.

Harvey Korman (playing "Rhett") had not seen the drapery-rod dress until Carol Burnett stepped into the scene during the taping. To watch him try not to crack up with laughter is healing all in itself.

Also, the Botkin book blows. Some women probably hid behind blinds and curtains. (I'd have been among 'em.) Most were in the thick of it. One of my ancestors tried to talk some raiding terrorists out of taking all her household furnishings. (That kind of courage did not reach me in the DNA, sadly.)

[Lainey]

Because the could not technically sign up as women. If they were enlisting in a regiment to fight, they had to dress, talk and act a like men.

That is so weird...but everyone knew they were, in fact, women, no? Or not until after the war?

[Peas n carrots]

There could have been a few women hiding behind the curtains, but most didn't.

I'd love to tell them about my 3x great grandmother. She lived deep in the Ozarks on the Missouri/Arkansas border. after her husband went away to fight those damn Yankees, she was left alone with several children and another on the way (my 2x great grandma). Well, during that time highwaymen called Bushwackers roamed the countryside, taking advantage of the situation stealing horses and robbing/raping the women who no longer had their husband's protection.

So the family lore goes like this: One day 3xGG got word that there were Bushwackers in the area and they planned on raiding her homestead as they apparently had a lot of horses. She sent her older children to let the horses out of the paddock, and she hid the younger children in the home. When she heard the Bushwackers come down their lane, she went outside, got up on a stump, started swinging an ax and screaming like a crazy person...all doing this while heavily pregnant. The Bushwackers saw this and the last thing they wanted to do was confront a "crazy woman" swinging an ax and immediately got the hell out of Dodge.

Yes, those Southern women were all shrinking violets :roll:

[DefraudedByPlaid]

There could have been a few women hiding behind the curtains, but most didn't.

I'd love to tell them about my 3x great grandmother. She lived deep in the Ozarks on the Missouri/Arkansas border. after her husband went away to fight those damn Yankees, she was left alone with several children and another on the way (my 2x great grandma). Well, during that time highwaymen called Bushwackers roamed the countryside, taking advantage of the situation stealing horses and robbing/raping the women who no longer had their husband's protection.

So the family lore goes like this: One day 3xGG got word that there were Bushwackers in the area and they planned on raiding her homestead as they apparently had a lot of horses. She sent her older children to let the horses out of the paddock, and she hid the younger children in the home. When she heard the Bushwackers come down their lane, she went outside, got up on a stump, started swinging an ax and screaming like a crazy person...all doing this while heavily pregnant. The Bushwackers saw this and the last thing they wanted to do was confront a "crazy woman" swinging an ax and immediately got the hell out of Dodge.

Yes, those Southern women were all shrinking violets :roll:

Lol, that's an incredible story!

[lizzielouwho]

That is so weird...but everyone knew they were, in fact, women, no? Or not until after the war?

Most of the women who fought did so as men. There is an interesting documentary called Rebel that can be viewed at http://video.klrn.org/searchForm/?q=rebel about Loreta Janeta Velazquez who fought in the confederate army. Apparently her story is questionable, but the documentary does touch on the other women who fought as men.

[Mellanya]

The discussion shouldn't be limited to the women on the front lines.

What about those women who had to do the hard physical work their husbands (and they themselves) did before? Working the fields all by themselves? Caring for the sick? Trying to keep supplies up? Fixing stuff because the men who did it were gone? Producing goods that were desperately needed both by soldiers as well by the ones who stayed at home? Doing everything they could and more to keep their communities from starving to death? Run the whole place? All of that with a major number of children?

Did those women hide behind the blinds too?

[Lainey]

Lol, that's an incredible story!

Seconded! That is awesome! :lol:

[lizzielouwho]

The discussion shouldn't be limited to the women on the front lines.

What about those women who had to do the hard physical work their husbands (and they themselves) did before? Working the fields all by themselves? Caring for the sick? Trying to keep supplies up? Fixing stuff because the men who did it were gone? Producing goods that were desperately needed both by soldiers as well by the ones who stayed at home? Doing everything they could and more to keep their communities from starving to death? Run the whole place? All of that with a major number of children?

Did those women hide behind the blinds too?

I was just going to write almost this same thing. Somewhere between 10 and 20% of the southern population owned slaves. The rest was comprised of mostly poor farm families. The women from those families most defiantly were not hiding behind the curtains. Heck they probably didn't even have curtains given the high cost of fabric at the time.

Jennie Wade was shot while kneading dough at 8:30 am. Troops began firing on the house she was in at 7 am. She continued her work in a house that was under fire for an hour and a half. She was not a scared little woman hiding. She was also a seamstress and took care of a young boy for money.

The fundie women have a very warped view of the way women behaved in the past. Most of them would not have been the aristocracy they so love. Most of them would not have even been able to find a husband amongst the farmers in a nation that was largely agricultural at the time because farmers needed sturdy wives who worked hard indoors and out.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Southern flowers, my foot. I'm sure there were some that acted that way, but based on the stories here, I'm guessing they weren't the majority. One of my many times great grandmothers ran a family farm together with her sisters and an elderly uncle because all the men were away. I'm pretty sure she didn't have time to hide behind the blinds.

[lizzielouwho]

There could have been a few women hiding behind the curtains, but most didn't.

I'd love to tell them about my 3x great grandmother. She lived deep in the Ozarks on the Missouri/Arkansas border. after her husband went away to fight those damn Yankees, she was left alone with several children and another on the way (my 2x great grandma). Well, during that time highwaymen called Bushwackers roamed the countryside, taking advantage of the situation stealing horses and robbing/raping the women who no longer had their husband's protection.

So the family lore goes like this: One day 3xGG got word that there were Bushwackers in the area and they planned on raiding her homestead as they apparently had a lot of horses. She sent her older children to let the horses out of the paddock, and she hid the younger children in the home. When she heard the Bushwackers come down their lane, she went outside, got up on a stump, started swinging an ax and screaming like a crazy person...all doing this while heavily pregnant. The Bushwackers saw this and the last thing they wanted to do was confront a "crazy woman" swinging an ax and immediately got the hell out of Dodge.

Yes, those Southern women were all shrinking violets :roll:

I am from the Ozarks in Mo. And I have a book you should check out. Its call Ozark Magic an Folklore by Vance Randolf. The book goes much further that magic and folklore and is a true peek into the everyday lives of the people who lived in the area of you 3XGG through the 1930s, she or other relatives of yours may even be mentioned in Vance Randolf's writings (he wrote several things on the Ozarks). He took down their stories, traditions, farming practices, the plants they used for medicine and even how long women of the area breastfed. Amazing stuff really. Especially if you claim ancestry in the area.