Eric Holder: Homeschool family political asylum (MERGED)

[sunshine]

http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2013/02/ ... al-rights/

Ready, set, go...

[Jinger Jar]

If one's fundament is being violated from or during homeschooling, one needs to tell a trusted adult. There's nothing to be ashamed of, but somebody needs to know.

[gustava]

With all the pain and suffering that push people to apply for asylum, these people should be mortified.

[Kitchen Princess]

Don't bring that H$LDA alarmist shit here, sunshine. This has nothing to do with any existing homeschool issue in AMERICA. It has to do with a German couple seeking asylum because they feel persecuted by German authorities because they want to homeschool for religious reasons. Homeschooling is regulated by the states. It doesn't matter what Eric Holder says about it. The US Government is not trying to usurp the states' power to regulate homeschooling.

[meda]

This is an interesting article about the notion of "rights". Many countries don't grant their citizens an absolute right to practice religion in any way that citizen sees fit. The U.S. does does not have such a blanket right, even with the first amendment. There are all sorts of limitations placed on religious expression. Bigamy laws conflict with the right of men under Islam to have 4 wives. Christian Scientists cannot deny their children medical treatment without running afoul of child endangerment laws. We dont have floggings and stonings. There are many other examples.

People like this family (or their lawyers) tend to believe in the idea of "natural rights", or biblical rights, which has gained traction in some right wing legal circles in recent years. Historically this notion natural rights was a progressive idea that was influential in the enlightenment and in the fight against slavery. In recent years this has been co opted by the Ayn Rand crowd. The theory stands in contrast to the idea of legal rights, which are granted by governments, examples would be our Constitution, the UN charter of human rights, and the Magna Carta.

If I understand the US arguement correctly, they say that no legal rights have been violated, so there is no grounds for asylum. A blanket ban on homeschooling is not de facto persecution because of religious expression. The counter arguement seems to be that this family has some sort of god given natural right to homeschool because of their religious faith, and that natural right should trump German and US law.

[formergothardite]

I can't get the page to load, Sunshine can you sum it up and give your opinion on it?

[Kitchen Princess]

The whole website seems to be down. Don't know why.

[Kitchen Princess]

Here's H$LDA's account. The OP's link was just a summary of this. http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2013/201302110.asp

[formergothardite]

So these people are claiming persecution because they can't homeschool? Oh good grief. Your kids won't die if you sent them to school.

[gustava]

Don't bring that H$LDA alarmist shit here, sunshine. This has nothing to do with any existing homeschool issue in AMERICA. It has to do with a German couple seeking asylum because they feel persecuted by German authorities because they want to homeschool for religious reasons. Homeschooling is regulated by the states. It doesn't matter what Eric Holder says about it. The US Government is not trying to usurp the states' power to regulate homeschooling.

Asylum is a federal matter so it Holder's perspective is important. And the US does accept asylum requests for religious persecution.

My guess is that HSLDA is trying for some sort of test case.

[formergothardite]

How can anyone think not being allowed to homeschool is persecution.

[Kitchen Princess]

Asylum is a federal matter so it Holder's perspective is important. And the US does accept asylum requests for religious persecution.

My guess is that HSLDA is trying for some sort of test case.

It is NOT important in context of being legally allowed to homeschool in the US. It possibly has implications for religious liberty with regard to asylum. But it will have no bearing on current homeschool laws, which are set by the states. This is has been fought in court all over the nation and I highly doubt the US is wishing to ban homeschooling at all, much less override state law.

Further, most states make no mention of religion in their homeschool statutes, so even if the Federal government came to take those rights away, it wouldn't be on the basis of religion.

This is H$LDA thinking of a impending totalitarian government and hoping to INSERT a homeschool right based on religion into our laws. It's what they've always hoped for.

[OkToBeTakei]

zachsgang.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/homeschooling-is-not-fundamental-right.html

Homeschooling is NOT a fundamental right???

This is long, but if you're a homeschooling family it is a MUST read!!!!! We need to know what we're facing!!!!

OMG PANIC ELEVENTY!!!!111!!!

I adore Whiner Lady :lol:

[formergothardite]

Finally able to read the original article and it was all hysterics about homeschoolers being persecuted. I can't tell is Sunshine agrees with that or is if the "ready set go" is about how christian homeschoolers are going to start freaking out about nothing.

[OkToBeTakei]

Finally able to read the original article and it was all hysterics about homeschoolers being persecuted. I can't tell is Sunshine agrees with that or is if the "ready set go" is about how christian homeschoolers are going to start freaking out about nothing.

You mean like Whiner above? She is like a reactionary firework. I see her being the 'LOOK SHINY' type :lol:

[formergothardite]

Even my parents who are huge supporters of homeschooling are rolling their eyes about this one. Whenever people start bitching about all the laws around homeschooling my mom always drags out her "back in the day" stories about how back in the early 80's homeschoolers had to have home inspections and turn in work to a school board to prove they were teaching their kids. And all the people realized it was a privilage to do this not some sort of religious right. My parents are friends with some of the first people to homeschool in our area so even though we were going to private school at that point they heard and saw all the original regulations when it came to homeschooling.

[Someonetocall]

Finally able to read the original article and it was all hysterics about homeschoolers being persecuted. I can't tell is Sunshine agrees with that or is if the "ready set go" is about how christian homeschoolers are going to start freaking out about nothing.

I assumed the OP put the "ready, set, go" because s/he knew that FJers would rip this idea apart. I see no indication here that the OP agrees that this is persecution, although I have not checked the OP's other posts to judge hir position. I am assuming intent in a vacuum.

Also, "persecution" my left foot. These people want persecution, I will show them persecution. It has less to do with state-run schooling and more to do with one's children being harmed or killed for trying to attend school.

[gustava]

It is NOT important in context of being legally allowed to homeschool in the US. It possibly has implications for religious liberty with regard to asylum. But it will have no bearing on current homeschool laws, which are set by the states. This is has been fought in court all over the nation and I highly doubt the US is wishing to ban homeschooling at all, much less override state law.

Further, most states make no mention of religion in their homeschool statutes, so even if the Federal government came to take those rights away, it wouldn't be on the basis of religion.

This is H$LDA thinking of a impending totalitarian government and hoping to INSERT a homeschool right based on religion into our laws. It's what they've always hoped for.

I think we're in agreement.

[formergothardite]

I assumed the OP put the "ready, set, go" because s/he knew that FJers would rip this idea apart. I see no indication here that the OP agrees that this is persecution, although I have not checked the OP's other posts to judge hir position. I am assuming intent in a vacuum.

Also, "persecution" my left foot. These people want persecution, I will show them persecution. It has less to do with state-run schooling and more to do with one's children being harmed or killed for trying to attend school.

Well only she can tell us what she really meant.

I don't think most fundies have any idea what persecution means. No one is trying to kill their kids or take them away from them or even say that they can't teach them religious beliefs at home. They are just being told then need to send their kids to school.

[I live off the state]

One of te main tings I don't get about this story is that why the hell theyhad to seek asylum? They are from Germany, Germany is part of the EU, there is free movement of people withi the EU (ie. citizens can move between countries, get jobs, claim benifits without having to have residence/work permits), most EU countries allow homeschooling (including some German speaking ones and te UK) so why was there a need for political asylum?

[formergothardite]

Persecution points? If they just move and not make a big deal about it, where is the persecution in that?

[I live off the state]

Persecution points? If they just move and not make a big deal about it, where is the persecution in that?

I am not saying they don't have the right to stamp their freet and kick up a fuss if they are pissed about laws in the country which they are citizens of and think they are unfair and authoritarian. But claiming political assylum was unnecisary as there were other options available to them.

[formergothardite]

Oh, I agree it is totally unneccesary, it is just that they are fundies and most fundies love to pretend they are being persecuted.

[lilah]

I think they are doing this so they don't have a huge influx of people claiming asylum for being opressed!!!11 becuase their country bans things that the US does not like gun ownership or certain chemicals in processed foods.

And I agree that they could have gone through the normal immigration procedures. Getting political asylum is usually faster. I had a friend who emigrated from Liberia in the 90's and didn't get political asylum for years.

[formergothardite]

I just read the Whiner lady's blog about this and she compared not being allowed to homeschool to force feeding Jewish children pork. :roll: