Eric Holder: Homeschool family political asylum (MERGED)

[tropaka]

How could they have even come to the conclusion that not being allowed to homeschool warrants asylum? I thought that was for situations where returning to a home country would result in physical hardship. I don't even see the religious aspect of it as you can certainly practice religion in your home/church without keeping your children out of school.

[formergothardite]

In the comments from the whiny lady's blog:

"CRAZY! Our legal system wants to allow homosexual marriage because they believe that IS a fundamental right (beside the fact that marriage was God's design, not our government's), but on the flip side you don't have the fundamental right to train up and educae your own children."

Maybe you should learn to spell educate before you actually educate your children.

Sunshine, were you homeschooled? Just curious, you seemed like you came from a sheltered background in some of your other posts. If you were, what do the homeschoolers you know think of this? The people I knew who homeschooled starting back in the 80's this this is just silly, the fundie, younger, public school is from the devil homeschoolers think they are being persecuted.

[formergothardite]

According to this blogger(who has a note to any government agency who is monitoring her blog :roll: ), this is an attempt by the government to stamp out homeschooling because homeschooling is a threat to the government monopoly.

ladyliberty1885.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/holders-doj-no-fundamental-right-to-homeschool/

[Maggie Mae]

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 25350.html

(Not breaking the link because it's Al Jazeera.)

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany, evangelical Christians wanted to homeschool, German government said "No" and they worried about having their kids taken away. Family fled to the US, applied for Asylum, and was granted it, but now it's being revoked.

http://www.examiner.com/article/german- ... d-security

I don't think the right to teach children at home is something that qualifies for political asylum, at least not when there are people who need it because if they go back to their "home country" they will be killed by their government.

[pudding]

Seemed odd to me from the beginning, because in Austria - same language, neighboring EU country - homeschooling is allowed.

There is not really an explanation if it was only about homeschooling. Going to Austria would have been the first option.

[valsa]

I don't think the right to teach children at home is something that qualifies for political asylum, at least not when there are people who need it because if they go back to their "home country" they will be killed by their government.

This. There are people who will likely be tortured, raped, and/or killed if they stay in/go back to their country. I'm finding myself lacking sympathy for these folks.

[JMarie]

If they had just moved to the U.S. and not declared asylum, wouldn't they be okay now and not facing deportation?

[Cran]

They wouldn't be deported, but they face a real risk of losing custody of their children. It has already happened to other families.

This doesn't qualify them for political asylum, imho, but I do not like the law, either. Germany and Hungary are the only countries in Europe that ban home schooling outright and have compulsory school attendance. Once the school was the means of indoctrination into fascism, now home schooling is the way to indoctrinate children into religious fundamentalism :roll:

Personally, I do not understand the enmity German lawmakers show towards home schooling. Yes, it can be abused by fundamentalists, but private schools, for example run by the Opus Dei, face very little control, which leads to the same problem. I think there's no basis for forcing children into school, because a good education can be provided in other ways, too. Stringent laws should be put into place to regulate home schooling, stating the qualifications necessary to teach at home, working out a mandatory syllabus and enforcing control by making the pupils take tests each year.

This would, apart from the benefit to children who simply do not fit into the 0/8/15 school system, rob fundies like this of the possibility to play the martyr.

[yewchapel]

Methinks these people wanted to become some kind of homeschooling heroes. All EU citizens have free movement and right to work in any country within the EU, so it would have been very easy for them to move to Austria and settle there where homeschooling is legal and they speak the same language, and no chance of losing their kids. Nice use of SOTDRT 'logic' there.

[ladyaudley]

and in Germany, it's an old Nazi law .

nope, it's not. The law is older than that, first established by Bismarck.

[debrand]

Methinks these people wanted to become some kind of homeschooling heroes. All EU citizens have free movement and right to work in any country within the EU, so it would have been very easy for them to move to Austria and settle there where homeschooling is legal and they speak the same language, and no chance of losing their kids. Nice use of SOTDRT 'logic' there.

I did not know that they could just move to Austria and have the right to homeschool. The move across the border would seem much easier than moving to the United States.

nogreaterjoy.org/articles/post-nazi-germany/

We at NGJ have been in correspondence with German homeschool families. One such family has moved into our community and is in association with the German-speaking Mennonites of our area. They dropped in just last week to say hi and to access our internet.

I wonder if this is the same family? If so, there might be more at play than a desire to homeschool. Is spanking illegal in Germany? Is it illegal to be a Mennonite in Germany? It worries me that they are in contact with the Pearls. To be fair, contact does not mean that they agree with the Pearls

[Cran]

nope, it's not. The law is older than that, first established by Bismarck.

You're right, I looked it up, I am sorry. I edited my original post accordingly.

[Mama Mia]

If they had just moved to the U.S. and not declared asylum, wouldn't they be okay now and not facing deportation?

You can't "just move" to the U.S. , the wait to immigrate is very, very long and many people do not fall into eligible groups.

[ladyaudley]

You're right, I looked it up, I am sorry. I edited my original post accordingly.

No worries :) it's one of my pet peeves since moving to Britain ^^

I think free schools give enough of an opportunity for a different type of schooling in Germany; a friend's sisters went to one that was basically unschooling in a building. I suppose it's difficult to find enough other fundies to open one with though...

[Effie]

They wouldn't be deported, but they face a real risk of losing custody of their children. It has already happened to other families.

This doesn't qualify them for political asylum, imho, but I do not like the law, either. Germany and Hungary are the only countries in Europe that ban home schooling outright and have compulsory school attendance - and in Germany, it's an old Nazi law. Once the school was the means of indoctrination into fascism, now home schooling is the way to indoctrinate children into religious fundamentalism :roll:

Cran, homeschooling is not legal here, nor in any other northern country (?). I was once temporarily disabled (couldn't walk) and was told that if I couldn't make it to school (with assistance/help) I could be educated in my home, by the teachers from my school. That would have been a solution for a short while. Since there weren't any disabled-friendly schools in the area, they eventually had to adapt the school for the disabled children in the village.

Compulsory school until 9:th grade here. If you don't show up, your parents will be called to meetings etc. If the parents don't manage to get you to school, the local police will show up at your door-step and drag your sorry ass to school. At that point, CPS will already be involved.

[MyName]

Ugh. My fundie fb friends are posting this story with the "Obama is deporting a HS family!! RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!1!!"

Annoying as hell.

[salsa]

Methinks these people wanted to become some kind of homeschooling heroes. All EU citizens have free movement and right to work in any country within the EU, so it would have been very easy for them to move to Austria and settle there where homeschooling is legal and they speak the same language, and no chance of losing their kids. Nice use of SOTDRT 'logic' there.

While I positively roll my eyes at the "we're persecuted!!!" angle from the family in question, I do personally understand what a disruption it is to move. Of course, moving in our case involved the children changing schools, but even without that, there are 1) a new job for at least one partner 2) leaving friends 3) making new social contacts 4) THE EXPENSE!! and the hassle of selling a house, buying a new one and hiring a moving company. (and all our moves were within the state)

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Ugh. My fundie fb friends are posting this story with the "Obama is deporting a HS family!! RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!1!!"

Annoying as hell.

Yes I've seen that on fb too, followed by "we let all the illegal immigrants stay but of course Obama opposes this one family"

[debrand]

While I positively roll my eyes at the "we're persecuted!!!" angle from the family in question, I do personally understand what a disruption it is to move. Of course, moving in our case involved the children changing schools, but even without that, there are 1) a new job for at least one partner 2) leaving friends 3) making new social contacts 4) THE EXPENSE!! and the hassle of selling a house, buying a new one and hiring a moving company. (and all our moves were within the state)

But wouldn't it be harder to move to the United States instead of Austria?

Because they are in Tennessee, I wonder if they were the German homeschooling family that the Pearls mentioned. There must be more to this story than the family just wanting to homeschool.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I assume the hslda offered them their help before they moved. They follow cases like this. The German family probably wanted to move somewhere like the US where there is a large pro HSing movement.

[DarkAnts]

I assume the hslda offered them their help before they moved. They follow cases like this. The German family probably wanted to move somewhere like the US where there is a large pro HSing movement.

I think that the hslda is using them. They are trying to force an issue in the US and this family seemed like the perfect poster family for their fight. If the organization wanted to simply help the family, then they could have helped them move to Austria which allows homeschooling. There would be no need to seek political asylum. And it would have cost less.

[latraviata]

One of te main tings I don't get about this story is that why the hell theyhad to seek asylum? They are from Germany, Germany is part of the EU, there is free movement of people withi the EU (ie. citizens can move between countries, get jobs, claim benifits without having to have residence/work permits), most EU countries allow homeschooling (including some German speaking ones and te UK) so why was there a need for political asylum?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschool ... statistics

[Gertie]

Cran, homeschooling is not legal here, nor in any other northern country (?). I was once temporarily disabled (couldn't walk) and was told that if I couldn't make it to school (with assistance/help) I could be educated in my home, by the teachers from my school. That would have been a solution for a short while. Since there weren't any disabled-friendly schools in the area, they eventually had to adapt the school for the disabled children in the village.

Where are you? Sweden? The wikipedia link that latraviata posted claims that homeschooling is basically illegal in Sweden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_international_status_and_statistics

[Effie]

Where are you? Sweden? The wikipedia link that latraviata posted claims that homeschooling is basically illegal in Sweden.

Yes, Sweden. Ah interesting. Gaah I didn't know that both Norway and Denmark allow home-schooling. That's worrisome... Fortunately we don't follow our neighbours in everything we do.

[longskirts]

The US immigration system is messed up and while the argument behind this application may not be so convincing, I think the family should be allowed to stay. The US needs to move away from the "Deport all the foreigners!!!" mentality.

HSLDA is taking it on because they don't have much to do anymore. They used to fight restrictions on homeschooling; now just about anyone who wants to can homeschool legally and there's less need for them.