"Catholic's aren't Christian"

[Cassandra]

I'm soooo irritated.

One of my best friends and I went shopping today and we mentioned her grandfather's recent funeral, which was a baptist service. We rambled on for a bit and then discussed the differences between Protestant and Catholic funerals, because I've only ever been to a Catholic funeral.

And she says: "I don't understand how people can say Catholics are Christians, they're so obviously different."

I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and say : "Well they definitely have different traditions but they all fall under the spectrum of Christianity"

Which she replied that no, they didn't.

I let it go, because she's a great friend and I didn't want to start an argument/debate...but UGH. That sort of idea just pisses me off. While I'm an atheist I do come from a Catholic family and I've seen discrimination against Catholics by other Christians firsthand and its nothing but pure ignorant bigotry. It made me so upset that it was coming from my friend.

Ugh. Just needed to rant.

[clibbyjo]

I have seen it too. When I was Catholic and wanting my sister to be Godmother,she refused. She is IFB now and couldn't even bother to stand up there for show because Catholic's aren't Christian.(and I am HER daughter's godmother from when they were Catholic!)

I have heard it a million times from the Baptists when I lived in the south.

[xDreamerx]

This is something that really irks me as well. I grew up Anglican not Catholic, but since they are almost exactly the same in terms of theology and some just consider Anglicanism to be English Catholicism, I find it offensive.

As far as I am concerned, a belief in Jesus Christ makes a person a Christian regardless of how he or she practices that belief. I still find it surprising that this kind of thing happens. I don't know why but I do.

[Cassandra]

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised by my friend. She's a great person but definitely shows the signs of growing up as a white Baptist girl in the South.

The night Obama was elected she asked me if I was worried that 'the blacks would get uppity'. :oops:

Really, I swear she's actually a nice person :(

I've also seen a lot of Catholic hate in the small town I grew up in. I had a friend ask me once why Catholics though the Virgin Mary was more important than god.

[dianapavelovna]

I'm not even Catholic any more and this still chaps my ass when I hear it. Catholic and Christian used to be synonymous, for Pete's sake.

The Catholics worship Mary thing is also tired. Get learned, fools.

[xDreamerx]

Uppity? Oh jeez. If it makes you feel any better someone I know asked me if I thought he would plant watermelons in White House garden. I think he meant it as a joke, or at least I hope so, but it was in bad taste.

In my opinion there's been a historical anti-Catholic feeling in America. I'm not going to pull the persecuted card because I think that's super lame, but it's the reason the Catholic school system was started. Mainstream schools taught children Protestantism and parents resented it. I don't care for the Catholic school system today, but nonetheless it was started with good intentions. When Kennedy was elected it was a very big deal to a lot of Catholics. It seems like a small thing now, but in my experiences talking to people of that generation, it meant something to them.

Though I don't know that Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. of today are aware of this history. I think it's more a case of "our Christianity is the only true kind", which we see from every group.

Apparently they need to look up the definition of "saint" and "deity" because they do not seem to understand the difference.

[Lillybee]

Back in the day, the KKK hated African Americans, Jews and Catholics. It was only a few years ago that Catholics were allowed to join the KKK.

[duplessis3]

It isn''t an opinion, it is historical fact that there has been a thread of anti_Catholcism in the US. That's why the Irish and Italians weren't welcomed with open arms. (And we won't even get into the anti-nonchristian stuff...)

What do people need to believe about Jesus to be called a Christian? (asking sincerely, not snarkily because I want to say that I think a belief in the Trinity and Jesus is fully human and fully divine are necessary but of course this means that LDS and JWs aren't Christian. I think definitions are important...so Jesus was some kind of super important teacher? and had a direct line to God? )

[ladypuglover]

In all my years of being a Protestant I've never heard anyone ever say that Chatholics weren't Christian. Not once until I came here and heard from you all. Durring Sunday school we were taught that religion came in all forms to all people and Jews, Catholic and Protestants were all believers of the same God.

[JenniferJuniper]

duplicate post.

[JenniferJuniper]

Well, speaking as an agnostic who has spent a lot of time around Catholics:

"Christians" aren't necessarily Catholic. There is only one "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" and if you ain't in it, you are out of it.

And that "personal relationship with Jesus Christ" many Protestant groups claim to have? Pure revisionist, individualist narcissism. "Protest" all you like, Protestants, but you're all sinners! :twisted:

[Chrystal-J]

I've heard that before. It's born out of ignorance, prejudice and preachers who don't want to lose anyone to the Catholic faith. Catholics were the first Christians and all other faiths were splinter groups off of that.

[TheSassyOne]

Well as a Catholic, I've heard this unfortunately all of my life. Thankfully I live in an area that is predominately Catholic, but it's not unusual when I met people who are not Catholic that I get the "side eye" and I am sometimes told that I am going to hell. Oh well, thank you very much! Hehe. I don't let it bother me though, because there are kookies in every sect of every religion and non religion. I know some Catholics, even in my own extended family, who are just as ignorant.

Oh and to answer the question that was posed, what makes one a Christian? Well the belief in God is already there, so add to it the belief that Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah. Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Lutherans, Episcopalians, J.Witnesses, etc. are all Christians by virtue of the fact that we all believe that Jesus is the Messiah, is God's Son and follow Him. Each religion has it's own different tenets, but that's what we share and what makes us Christian (a follow of the Christ - the Messiah). :D

[Lillybee]

I remember driving through southern Oregon a few years ago. There was a huge billboard that said that the Pope was the anti-christ. it was sponsered by a local Baptist Church.

[xDreamerx]

It isn''t an opinion, it is historical fact that there has been a thread of anti_Catholcism in the US. That's why the Irish and Italians weren't welcomed with open arms. (And we won't even get into the anti-nonchristian stuff...)

What do people need to believe about Jesus to be called a Christian? (asking sincerely, not snarkily because I want to say that I think a belief in the Trinity and Jesus is fully human and fully divine are necessary but of course this means that LDS and JWs aren't Christian. I think definitions are important...so Jesus was some kind of super important teacher? and had a direct line to God? )

I know, I basically just added the caveat of opinion to avoid any kind of mudslinging. Irish and Italians weren't considered white in America, even at the beginning of the 20th century they were still considered an "ethnic" group, "No Irish Need Apply", "No Irish or dogs allowed inside." that kind of thing. But I didn't want to mix Irish politics in with Catholic politics so I just avoided going there all together.

I wonder, is it the centralized authority of the Pope that contributes to it? America is obviously a republican nation and did people look upon the Pope as just another King for people to allign themselves with? I know when Kennedy was elected, there were often snide remarks made about whether or not he would use the red phone to call the Pope in a crisis.

But if that is the case, one can see how that feeling can be connected to today's fundies who are very much into the individual rights of states...

[3 is enough]

I have to say, growing up Catholic in Canada, I never encountered the anti-Catholic sentiments that are so prevalent in the US.

It was such a big deal when JFK was elected as the first Catholic President, but Canada had its first Catholic PM in 1890, and there have been 8 others since then. Religion just isn't that much of an issue, and rarely comes up in political campaigns.

Maybe it just stems from being a more secular nation. That's not to say people don't go to church, but it's considered more of a private matter. I was shocked when we moved to Pennsylvania in 1991, and people I just met asked if we had joined a church yet. No one would dream of asking a virtual stranger that question in Canada.

My father was Anglican, my Mother is Catholic. When the got married, my father agreed to raise the children as Catholics, but would not consider converting. It was never a problem. He didn't go to church, and as a kid, I thought that Protestants were lucky because they didn't have to go to church every week. :lol:

But I never heard the idea that Catholics weren't Christians. That's just ridiculous. The Catholic Church was THE original Christian church. And it really irks me that Gothard and his ilk are invading Central and South America, and trying to convert the Catholics there. These people already have religion, and they do believe in Jesus Christ.

Oh, and the "Catholics worship Mary and the saints" thing? Please. Catholics honour Mary, because she was the Mother of God, and the saints are honoured because they led exemplary lives. But they aren't on the same level as God. In fact, as children we were told to pray to Mary or a particular saint to intercede on our behalf for more trivial matters, because although God loves us all, He is very busy. So if, say, you wonder whether or not to buy a used harp for your daughters, instead of inconveniencing God about such a trivial matter, you would ask St. Cecilia, the patron saint of musicians, to intercede on your behalf.

[xDreamerx]

I have to say, growing up Catholic in Canada, I never encountered the anti-Catholic sentiments that are so prevalent in the US.

It was such a big deal when JFK was elected as the first Catholic President, but Canada had its first Catholic PM in 1890, and there have been 8 others since then. Religion just isn't that much of an issue, and rarely comes up in political campaigns.

Maybe it just stems from being a more secular nation. That's not to say people don't go to church, but it's considered more of a private matter. I was shocked when we moved to Pennsylvania in 1991, and people I just met asked if we had joined a church yet. No one would dream of asking a virtual stranger that question in Canada.

My father was Anglican, my Mother is Catholic. When the got married, my father agreed to raise the children as Catholics, but would not consider converting. It was never a problem. He didn't go to church, and as a kid, I thought that Protestants were lucky because they didn't have to go to church every week. :lol:

But I never heard the idea that Catholics weren't Christians. That's just ridiculous. The Catholic Church was THE original Christian church. And it really irks me that Gothard and his ilk are invading Central and South America, and trying to convert the Catholics there. These people already have religion, and they do believe in Jesus Christ.

This was my childhood. Except my mother was Anglican and my dad was United. I got raised Anglican since he was not a regular church goer and my mother was and they decided I needed regular religion in my life. We never really talked about it much and you certainly wouldn't have asked a stranger about their religion. Though, I did talk about it more with friends or if someone brought up what they were doing at church or for Christmas or whatever then you would discuss it. But I'm a news junkie and a huge Kennedyphile and seldom do I watch Canadian news unless there's an election or something big going on. I watch a lot of America media, news, etc so that has filtered into my opinions a little more. Nothing that interesting ever happens here (if you ask me) and I like a good controversy, which America just has more of (no offense, but seriously our news is boring). My dad has told me stories about the day Kennedy was shot he was remembers where he was and what he was doing that kind of thing. I've also had a lot of teachers who either were American or spent some time there in University or whatever so I guess I have a more Americanized mind than some Canadians. Maybe Quebecers would feel more strongly about Catholics? I'm just assuming.

[3 is enough]

Funny thing about Quebec and the Catholic Church. I grew up in Montreal, in the 60's. That was during the Quiet Revolution, when the Quebecois were leaving the Church in droves. So the Church bent over backwards to stem the exodus. I'm talking about altar girls, general absolution confessions, and priests telling women to follow their conscience in regards to birth control. When I moved to the US in the early 90's, and the priest made a big deal over finally allowing girls to serve at the Mass, I was floored. That had been going on in Quebec for 25 years!

[Letgo]

My in-laws used to be Catholic and now most of them aren't. Nearly everyone is non-demoninaltional Christian. And now they don't think Catholics are Christian, including themselves when they were Catholic. I just try and avoid bringing the subject.

Lillybee, I think I know that billboard! But I thought it was put up by a local wingnut, not a church. I can't think of a Baptist church around here that would definitely do that. But I could make a guess, if it really was one of them. It's been gone for a number of years or I'd drive by and check it out.

[ladypuglover]

What is funny is that I don't think that Jesus was ever a Christian. I need to read up more but I think he died as a practicing Jewish man.

[ADoyle90815]

One thing about having grown up where there's a large Catholic community is that I haven't experienced much anti-Catholic sentiment. When I've heard those myths, I found it to be annoying as I have Catholic family members.

[Nothing2CHere]

One thing about having grown up where there's a large Catholic community is that I haven't experienced much anti-Catholic sentiment.

That was my experience also, growing up as a Catholic. If anything, I was the outsider because I was Byzantine Catholic, not Roman Catholic, and no one had ever heard of that before. Of course, I was so saturated by Catholics as a child (my entire family was, most of our family friends were, the majority of my classmates in school were) that I didn't even realize there were other religions as a little kid.

No one has ever personally told me that I'm going to hell or that I'm not saved because I'm Catholic, but I was quite surprised when I first started hearing that sentiment, I think it was in college.

[VodouDoll]

A Campus Crusader told me that in college too! She was pretending that she had to take a survey for a class and was stopping people to stealth evangelize. She asked what religion I was and when I said I was Catholic she said, "Oh, um, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but are you aware that all Catholics are going to hell?"

[nolongerIFBx]

I wonder, is it the centralized authority of the Pope that contributes to it? America is obviously a republican nation and did people look upon the Pope as just another King for people to allign themselves with? I know when Kennedy was elected, there were often snide remarks made about whether or not he would use the red phone to call the Pope in a crisis.

But if that is the case, one can see how that feeling can be connected to today's fundies who are very much into the individual rights of states...

Growing up Baptist-fundie, the hatred toward Catholics was for two reasons. First, many of them grew up Catholic and felt deceived by their religion, i.e. they had been taught wrong things (according to their new beliefs) all their lives and most, if not all, their family was still being deceived. Secondly, Catholics and Protestants murdered many Baptists because they refused infant baptism. Foxe's Book of Martyrs was encouraged reading to learn about our history. http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html Event today there is still conflict between Catholics (granted a branch off of Roman Catholicism) and evangelical Christians- http://www.compassdirect.org/english/co ... exico/4846 .

People are passionate about their faith and/or their religion and most religions/denominations have at some time killed to try to stamp out "heretics". Personally I think it's time to get over it.

I think early Americans weren't over it yet (it was slightly more recent for them!) and that they did fear Rome trying to extend control to America. As more came to America, the original colonists weren't too fond of anyone who didn't fall in line with their religion, including Baptists, which is why Roger Williams founded Rhode Island. Anna Hutchison was one who soon found her beliefs differing from her Puritan, Massachusett neighbors- and besides she was a woman teaching men!- was charged with heresy, and had to move to Rhode Island.

The things that have been done throughout history in the name of God are atrocious.

[Eclipse]

I have to say, growing up Catholic in Canada, I never encountered the anti-Catholic sentiments that are so prevalent in the US.

It was such a big deal when JFK was elected as the first Catholic President, but Canada had its first Catholic PM in 1890, and there have been 8 others since then. Religion just isn't that much of an issue, and rarely comes up in political campaigns.

Maybe it just stems from being a more secular nation. That's not to say people don't go to church, but it's considered more of a private matter. I was shocked when we moved to Pennsylvania in 1991, and people I just met asked if we had joined a church yet. No one would dream of asking a virtual stranger that question in Canada.

My father was Anglican, my Mother is Catholic. When the got married, my father agreed to raise the children as Catholics, but would not consider converting. It was never a problem. He didn't go to church, and as a kid, I thought that Protestants were lucky because they didn't have to go to church every week. :lol:

But I never heard the idea that Catholics weren't Christians. That's just ridiculous. The Catholic Church was THE original Christian church. And it really irks me that Gothard and his ilk are invading Central and South America, and trying to convert the Catholics there. These people already have religion, and they do believe in Jesus Christ.

.

I grew up in Canada and my experience has been very different. I grew up, to be more exact, in southwestern Ontario, about an hour down the 401 from Toronto (not Bible belt at all) and I've heard it before. I heard it the first time when I was in grade 9 from some Baptists I made friends with. They were the first Baptists I ever met. All the kids i went to elementary school with were Catholic, Presbyterian or Mennonite and no one had never expressed any such sentiment to me before. It was not a Catholic school by the way. My Baptist friends tried to "save" me and would tell me Catholics weren't Christian. Their opinion on the subject is different now. But when one of them got married to the son of a Baptist minister, her future in-laws didn't come to the Jack and Jill shower we threw because it was held at a Catholic household. They also instructed on what to say at the reception when people asked me about my church and the connection to the families. (I was a bridesmaid).

I also grew up hearing regularly how when the first Catholic church was built in the city in the late 1870s, they had to lie about what the land would be used for when they were purchasing it and what they were building until well into the construction process.

I had a friend who started going to the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship after marrying a member of the church and no longer talks to me because I was raised Catholic or acknowledges I exist. That's the church where the Toronto Blessing started.

My father was Anglican and converted to Catholicism when he married my mom. I don't think it was ever an issue in the family because my grandfather converted from Presbyterian to Anglican when he married my Granny and I think that was a much bigger shock to the older generations. My dad did say that if some of his older generations were a live when he converted, they would have shunned him and how they turned over in their graves. Though he said they turned over in the graves when my grandpa became Anglican too.