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http://www.salon.com/2012/03/15/homesch ... singleton/

This article originally appeared on AlterNet.

In recent weeks, homeschooling has received nationwide attention because of Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum’s homeschooling family. Though Santorum paints a rosy picture of homeschooling in the United States, and calls attention to the “responsibility†all parents have to take their children’s education into their own hands, he fails to acknowledge the very real potential for educational neglect among some homeschooling families – neglect that has been taking place for decades, and continues to this day.

While the practice of homeschooling is new to many people, my own interest in it was sparked nearly 20 years ago. I was a socially awkward adolescent with a chaotic family life, and became close to a conservative Christian homeschooling family that seemed perfect in every way. Through my connection to this family, I was introduced to a whole world of conservative Christian homeschoolers, some of whom we would now consider “Quiverfull†families: homeschooling conservatives who eschew any form of family planning and choose instead to “trust God†with matters related to procreation.

Though I fell out of touch with my homeschooled friends as we grew older, a few years ago, I reconnected with a few ex-Quiverfull peers on a new support blog called No Longer Quivering. Poring over their stories, I was shocked to find so many tales of gross educational neglect. I don’t merely mean that they had received what I now view as an overly politicized education with huge gaps, for example, in American history, evolution or sexuality. Rather, what disturbed me were the many stories about homeschoolers who were barely literate when they graduated, or whose math and science education had never extended much past middle school.

Take Vyckie Garrison, an ex-Quiverfull mother of seven who, in 2008, enrolled her six school-age children in public school after 18 years of teaching them at home. Garrison, who started the No Longer Quivering blog, says her near-constant pregnancies – which tended to result either in miscarriages or life-threatening deliveries – took a toll on her body and depleted her energy. She wasn’t able to devote enough time and energy to homeschooling to ensure a quality education for each child. And she says the lack of regulation in Nebraska, where the family lived, “allowed us to get away with some really shoddy homeschooling for a lot of years.â€

“I’ll admit it,†she confesses. “Because I was so overwhelmed with my life… It was a real struggle to do the basics, so it didn’t take long for my kids to fall far behind. One of my daughters could not read at 11 years old.â€

At the time, Garrison was taking parenting advice from Quiverfull leaders who deemphasized academic achievement in favor of family values. She remembers one Quiverfull leader saying, “If they can do mathematics perfectly but they have no morals, you have failed them.â€

The implication, she says, was that, “if they’re not doing so well academically, well, then they can catch up on that later. It’s not such a big deal. It was a really convenient way of thinking for me because I wasn’t able to keep up anyway.†This kind of rhetoric, Garrison notes, provided a “high-minded justification for educational neglect. I would not have gotten away with that if I’d had to get my kids tested every year.â€

Over time, Garrison lost faith in her fundamentalist ideology and became aware that her children’s education was being neglected. Eventually all but one of her six younger children ended up entering and excelling in the public school system.

Why did she stick with homeschooling for so long, despite her difficulties? “We were convinced that it would be better for our kids not to have an education than to be educated to become humanists or atheists and to reject God,†Garrison says. “We became so isolated because the Quiverfull lifestyle was so overwhelming we didn’t have time or energy for socialization. So the only people we knew were exactly like us. We were told that the whole point of public school was to dumb down the children and turn them into compliant workers – to brainwash them and indoctrinate them into this godless way of thinking.â€

Garrison believes that homeschooling has become so popular with fundamentalist Christians because, “there is an atmosphere of real terror among some evangelicals. They are horrified by the fact that Obama is president, and they see the New Atheist movement as a vocal, in-your-face threat. Plus, they are obsessed with the End Times, and believe that the Apocalypse could happen any day now… They see a demon on every corner.

“We homeschooled because we wanted to protect our children from what we viewed as the total secularization of America. We listened to people like Rush Limbaugh, who told us that America was in the clutches of evil liberal feminist atheists.â€

*

Just how common are stories like Vyckie Garrison’s? Unfortunately, it’s hard to know. The federal government only maintains very broad demographic statistics about homeschoolers in this country; federal data only keeps track of what kinds of people are homeschooling and why. You can find plenty of information about homeschoolers according to race, family income or highest education obtained by the parents. But as regards neglect related to homeschooling? The government cannot tell you — and there is no systematic state-by-state record of the percentage of truancy convictions (possibly the best measure of educational neglect at present) that involve homeschooling families versus those involving enrolled students and/or their parents.

Capturing that kind of data is essential to understanding the scope of this problem, but getting real numbers will always be complicated by the fact that many homeschooling families choose not to comply with the law by submitting to state homeschool regulations, or even report their homeschool activity to the state. While it’s possible that some forget, others intentionally fail to report because they fear too much government intervention in their lives. For many conservative Christians, this is a key aspect of their decision not to report.

Given the scarcity of numbers on this issue, the best one can hope for at this point is anecdotal information about the problem. But because homeschooling is such a highly politicized issue, it is often difficult to get a clear sense of what is happening from homeschooling parents themselves. And because many parents see themselves as advocates of homeschooling, they are not always very eager to discuss potential gaps in homeschooling education.

Luckily, more than a few adult homeschool graduates are eager to talk. And as I talk to more and more people who recount first-person stories of homeschool-related neglect, it becomes hard to write off what homeschool advocates would call “exceptions†simply as fringe outliers.

Erika Diegel Martin’s story is particularly haunting. A homeschooling graduate of the mid-1990s, and an ex-Quiverfull daughter I have known for many years, Diegel Martin was pulled out of public school at 14. Because she was old enough to remember several years of public schooling, she says she never really believed her parents’ dire warnings about it. Her younger brothers were another story. “When the school bus would come by, my youngest brother would go, ‘There goes the prison bus.’ Our parents had them believing that public schools were these horrible places, just dens of iniquity.â€

The narrative about public schools, she says, went something like this: “How would you like to get stuck in a building with no light – and secular, godless, atheist teachers for seven hours of the day without even being able to see your parents or go out to play?†As a result, she says, “My brothers were terrified of the public schools.â€

Like Garrison, Diegel Martin recounts notable educational gaps in her own family, where there was little academic encouragement. One of her brothers decided to quit school at 16 and faced no parental opposition. The youngest, Diegel Martin says, ceased his formal education at the age of 12, when she left home and was no longer available to teach him herself. And though she was fortunate enough to receive sex education before leaving public school, her siblings were not so lucky. Their parents never taught the three other children about sex, and Diegel Martin remembers giving her 21-year-old sister “the talk†the week before she got married. She also had to intervene to ensure that her younger brothers learned about sex.

As for herself, when she completed her schooling, she says her parents did not allow her to obtain her GED as proof of high school graduation. Their reason? “The girls weren’t allowed to get a GED because we were told we wouldn’t need it. It would open up opportunities that were forbidden to us. We would work in the family business until we got married, and then become homemakers.

“When I talked about wanting to go to college, my parents said, ‘Well, you’re a girl. You don’t go to college.’â€

Melinda Palmer, 29, is another homeschool graduate who is forthcoming about the problems she encountered as a homeschooled child. She had no experience of public education, and quickly came to fear it. Her father cast the local school as a corrupt example of the dangerous world outside the home. The family’s isolationism created an environment in which everyone was so terrified of the outside they saw no choice but to submit to her father’s abusive rule for many years. She says they had come to believe that the tyranny of their father was preferable to what might await them on the outside.

The oldest of eight children, Palmer grew up in an extremely conservative family that ultimately went entirely off the grid. They lived in a rural country home in Vermont without running water or electricity. Though she says homeschooling started out with good enough intentions, it ultimately fell by the wayside, in part because of the sheer amount of work it took to subsist in Vermont without basic amenities while also maintaining the large family’s produce and livestock. It took so much time and energy to complete each day’s chores that they rarely had enough time to study.

Though she says all of the children in her family are literate, she tells me that, in math, she never made it past the start of pre-algebra, and that she has not yet obtained her GED. Since leaving the Quiverfull movement, she has found success as an artisanal cheese-maker, but many opportunities remain unavailable to her because of her upbringing. She speaks hopefully of continuing her schooling at some point, but feels self-conscious about working toward the GED at 29, when some of her younger sisters have already earned theirs. “I study and read things all the time,†she says, “but I haven’t done anything official yet.â€

Palmer insists that her family was not alone in homeschool neglect. Among the various fundamentalist families that ran in her family’s social circles, she says, “I knew several families whose children were not very literate.†Moreover, she points out, education is “more than just learning math and science and the facts of history – it’s learning how to interact with the kids around you, and figuring out what different kinds of personalities bring to life.

“You can do homeschooling right if you’re very careful,†she acknowledges. “Know all the ways it can go wrong and guard against these; have outside interaction; get help with what you need help with and use a decent curriculum.†But most homeschoolers, Palmer points out, “are woefully lacking in every area†of their education. /p>

Palmer sends me a note after we talk that reads, “I know of a family right now in pretty much the exact same situation we were in back then. They reported [their homeschooling status] to the state once, eight years ago, and never after that, to my knowledge. The state never caught on… They are one of the families I know whose children are functionally illiterate. Their 18-year-old daughter can read, but can barely write a paragraph… and the education goes significantly downhill from there. Her youngest brother, almost 11, has barely learned to read.â€

I follow up to find out if anyone has reported the family to social services. She says they have been reported, but very little has changed.

*

Still, this is not to say there aren’t many homeschooling parents who are doing an excellent job of ensuring that their children receive a quality education. Most parents realize they are taking on a tremendous amount of responsibility when they commit to homeschooling a child, so I am not surprised to find many – secular and religious – who are doing well by their children.

Maria Hoffman Goeller is one of those. A lifelong family friend, Goeller is a homeschool graduate raised in a conservative Christian home, where she never lagged behind in academics. Now she has a son with special needs in the California public school system but educates two other school-age children at home. “Part of the reason we homeschool is because I’m choosing what worldview or what subjects I want to introduce my child to,†she says. But she understand the limits of her own skill, which is why she placed her special-needs son in public school. “While I can teach my children reading, writing and arithmetic, I am not trained in special education,†she says. “I want my child to have the best education he can get, which at this time is public school.â€

Though she considers herself conservative, Goeller does not demonize public schools as some families do. And contrary to stereotypes about Christian homeschoolers, Goeller is adamant that she will not sacrifice academic rigor, or shield her children from views different from her own. In fact, she says she would welcome more opportunities for them to interact with public school students, for example, in sports and even in certain classes now and then.

Certainly, Goeller is not alone in the care and thoughtfulness she takes with her children’s homeschool education. But in light of what Garrison, Diegel Martin and Palmer tell me, it seems irresponsible to assert, as many homeschooling parents do, that homeschooling neglect is just a fringe element in the homeschooling world. And getting a straight answer about the scope of the problem from people who champion the cause is difficult at best.

Take Kelly Hogaboom, a secular “unschooling†mother who maintains a popular homeschooling blog called Underbellie, and boasts of having “two terminally truant children.†Hogaboom is an advocate for homeschooling and “unschooling,†a type of homeschooling that often foregoes curriculum in favor of more child-directed education. She is dismissive of the cases of neglect that I bring up, saying, by way of shutting down my inquiries: “Like yourself, I too had…a deep fear of religious fundamentalism and an erroneous belief state institutions could and should stamp it out.â€

Of course, her response misses the mark; the issue of “stamping out†religious expression isn’t the point here. The issue at stake is educational neglect — which is, as the anecdotal evidence shows, an actual problem. My hope is that by looking to homeschooling parents for insights, they will be able to provide an honest assessment of their own successes and failures — in order to paint a more textured picture of the actual potential for neglect.

But in the end, Hogaboom declines to discuss the topic at all, urging me instead to read alternative theories of education she thinks I may have missed. And just in case I don’t understand that she has dismissed the concerns I raise, she concludes our email discussion by saying: “I get a laugh [at] how many grownups enjoy talking amongst themselves about what’s best for children†– and following it up with a smiley emoticon.

Though I am frustrated by her failure to engage with me, on some level, I understand her irritation. Homeschooling parents are probably called upon to apologize for neglectful homeschoolers quite a bit. But apologies are not what I’m looking for. I want to know about their experiences – positive and negative — as a way of understanding how to better prevent neglect.

Of course there are parents who are qualified to teach their children at home, and who do an excellent job of it. And there are children who excel in homeschooling environments. These families may well constitute a majority of homeschoolers. But this does not mean that all children do so well, and just as public schools are obligated to educate children who fall behind, so are parents who opt out of the system.

*

Kathryn Joyce, author of Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement, confirms that there are legitimate reasons for being concerned about a lack of oversight among homeschoolers. She acknowledges the diversity of the homeschooling movement, but notes, for example, that, “among the Quiverfull community, there are families that homeschool in such a way that education begins to diverge between boys’ education and girls education around the time they hit puberty.â€

Sometimes, Joyce says, girls, “stop receiving the same education as their brothers and are trained instead to fulfill the role that they’re going to have, which is to be a Quiverfull mother and a submissive wife.â€

She recalls an anecdote from Quiverfull leader Geoffrey Botkin, who suggested that girls should be taught to use the tools of the laboratory they will inhabit: the kitchen and the nursery. Girls’ education should prioritize “learning how to be mothers, learning in the kitchen, helping their mothers – not merely as chores that are a part of growing up. Rather, the point was that this should be a key part of their education because this was going to be their chief role.†Though Joyce says many homeschoolers go on to do exceptionally well once they go to college, she has also encountered problems with basics like literacy.

Given these sorts of issues, I am unconvinced when Rachel Goldberg, a secular homeschooling mother from Charlotte, North Carolina, echoes what I hear from homeschooling parents of every stripe on the subject of government oversight. “I don’t think there should be any regulation of homeschooling,†she says. “I’m not a libertarian or a conspiracy theorist, but I am fiercely protective of my kids and my choices about how to raise them. It’s none of the government’s business how I teach them. Just as I wouldn’t want the state to require me to submit menu plans and quarterly nutritional assessments (even though I believe nutrition is vitally important), I don’t want the state to require curricula plans, portfolios, etc.â€

According to Joyce, among extremist Quiverfull families (quite unlike Goldberg’s) there is often “a sense of persecution†when it comes to oversight; many families that refuse to report their activities do so because they fear state intrusion. But their fear may have very little basis in fact. “Often, people have to look outside the United States, to countries like Sweden, where homeschooling is much more heavily regulated, to make this argument,†Joyce notes. “There isn’t as much evidence that persecution is happening here, but I think they get a lot of organizing value and activism mobilization out of the argument that they’re persecuted.â€

Erika Diegel Martin, whose parents were anti-government extremists, agrees. Her parents did not report their first year of homeschooling to the state out of fear, but because she lived in a small New Hampshire town, the neighbors eventually noticed when the children weren’t in school. Finally, a truancy officer showed up to inquire, and as a result, the family reported their homeschooling status. “Look, any other parents [in] a public school would be charged with truancy if their kids didn’t show up at school,†Diegel Martin points out. “Why should it be any different for a homeschool family that isn’t reporting their children? It’s our government’s responsibility to make sure that our children are getting a proper education.â€

My old friend Maria Hoffman Goeller is a bit more cautious about the need for oversight. With one child in the public school system and two learning at home, Goeller insists that she has not experienced over-regulation in California, one of the more tightly regulated states. But she is always on the alert, she says, for any government mandate that might try to determine “what I can and cannot teach.â€

Goeller tells me that her apprehension about over-regulation stems from the arrests of homeschooling parents she knew during childhood, before homeschooling was well-understood in the United States. She remembers at least a couple of parents being arrested for truancy, and she remains unconvinced that they deserved this. Some families she knew opted not to report because of these cases. For those children, this meant not answering phones and hiding in the house if a stranger knocked on the front door.

No one I speak to who is homeschooling today mentions that this sort of oppressive regulation is a reality for current homeschooling families. Instead, they say that today’s regulation consists mostly of bureaucratic paper-pushing – hardly the kind of homeschool persecution some fear. It may be annoying, but so far as I can tell, it’s not trampling on anyone’s rights – though that doesn’t keep homeschoolers from worrying.

*

Ultimately, the women who report neglect in homeschooling want their experiences to serve as a warning that either greater restrictions on homeschooling are needed, or states need to do a better job of enforcing existing regulations.

For 18 years, Vyckie Garrison says, she continued homeschooling even though it became increasingly evident that “we should not have been homeschooling. It was a really bad idea for us, but we believed firmly that it was our obligation, that it would be sinful to send our children to public schools, which we called ‘Satan’s indoctrination centers.’†She tells me that yearly testing requirements “would have made a huge difference for our family. It would have either convinced us to quit homeschooling, or to do a much better job of meeting those minimum requirements.â€

I don’t believe the answer is to end homeschooling altogether, and neither do any of the women I talk to, no matter what their experience with homeschooling. But neither is it acceptable to allow more homeschooled children to fall through the cracks. And since no one should be deprived of an education, we have a duty to listen to those who were overlooked.

Melinda Palmer has become a vocal critic of homeschool neglect since leaving her home about six years ago at the age of 22. She cites “the grace of God†as the reason for her survival, as well as the support of her mother and siblings. She is still a Christian, but says her family believed in a “warped understand of God.†Today, she is no longer a fundamentalist and no longer afraid of living out in the world. She has also gotten involved in advocacy on behalf of better homeschooling regulation.

Of all my sources, Palmer has the most concrete ideas about what needs to change in order to make homeschooling safer for all kids. “First,†she says, “we should not reduce the oversight. Second, we need to make sure every child who is not in a public school is either on a private school roster or is on the homeschool watch list. I know of many in Vermont right now who are not even registered as homeschoolers, and no one pays attention…When kids are far below grade level, it should raise red flags, and someone should be looking into it.â€

Furthermore, as a sister to several children with cognitive disabilities, Palmer highlights the particular attention that homeschooled children with special needs deserve. “If kids have disabilities, the government needs to make sure that the disabilities are being addressed either by the parents or by an intervening agency.…A child with disabilities,†she notes, “has as much right to an appropriate education†as any other child.

Just before we hang up the phone, she makes a final request: “Please spread the word that it is really necessary for the government to make sure children aren’t being robbed of an education… Kids have rights too, and one of them is the right to an education appropriate to their age and ability.â€

It’s an important point, and I conclude with it because it is one of the more incisive analyses I’ve heard on this topic yet. There is simply no justification for allowing cases of educational neglect – wherever it exists – to go unchecked. We need not imprison more parents to make sure this happens, but improving state and local oversight of those who opt out would be one step in the right direction. As Garrison, Diegel Martin and Palmer acknowledge, better checks on their own home education would have made a vast difference for them. This is why, they say, they will continue to speak out.

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I can't remember where I read it (may have been Kathryn Joyce's Quiverfull book), but this article reminds me of the problem with unchecked homschooling: The fundie mom who bragged that her 9 year old daughter couldn't read, but that didn't matter because every morning the girl got her younger siblings washed, dressed and fed. In terms of a fundie female, the 9 year old had her priorities right, didn't matter she was illiterate.

Perhaps the laws have changed, but it used to be that in New Jersey, you could only homeschool if one of the parents had some sort of teaching certification. Seems like a fair compromise.

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My friends who homeschool put a significant amount of energy, time and money into ensuring their children receive an education. The two best are both former teachers who selected homeschooling because one of their children had special needs (autism in one, highly gifted in the other). My step cousin was educated at home and is now an RN. Because of situations like the one shesinsane mentioned, I still think mandatory testing twice a year is the minimum we should require of homeschooling families.

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In Oregon we see fundies frequently killing their home schooled kids. I'm thinking of the tragic case of the Christines, and the FOC children. These kids just fall through the tracks.

I've got friends that homeschooled, they all have advanced degrees and their kids are engaged, not isolated from their community. These families also tested with frequency. Their kids took GEDs and SATs and are now moving onto advanced degrees.

Heck these religiously home schooled kids aren't likely to read a newspaper unless they leave home.

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My friends who homeschool put a significant amount of energy, time and money into ensuring their children receive an education. The two best are both former teachers who selected homeschooling because one of their children had special needs (autism in one, highly gifted in the other). My step cousin was educated at home and is now an RN. Because of situations like the one shesinsane mentioned, I still think mandatory testing twice a year is the minimum we should require of homeschooling families.

I worked with a fundie guy who resided in Kansas, whose wife was homeschooling their four kids. One thing he mentioned (and didn't seem too happy about it) was the state required the kids to be in some activity outside the home with peers once a week. I don't know about any mandatory testing, but wonder if that was required as well. I hope so.

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This has become such a hot issue. Public education is also having its own problems. As a nation, we have given up our priority to have a well educated populace. Instead, we are becoming ideologues who are more interested in "training" young people to one way of thinking or another. We are becoming a third world country in the process.

I have said this before and I will say it again. Children benefit from an education that comes from public, private and home/parental sources all working together. We should have a government run basic and supplemental education that will give all children the opportunity to learn to read, to think, to perform methematics, to think, to reason, to be exposed to literature, philosophy, history, science and the arts. They should have a place to go that is safe and has pooled resources to provide equipment and trained staff to imprt the information. Children with differences need sponsorship and assistance to attain their goals as well. Private edcational facilities should be able to provide the same as the public facilities and have the freedom to add religious doctrine or specialty education of other sorts. Homeschooled children should be entitled to the same things. I believe that homeschooled children should have public resources available (and required) if the home program cannot provide the basic skills that are required by ALL schools.

Lack of education for religious reasons is simply not a sustainable rationale. If we are to be Americans and live in a nation that can move from one generation to the next with a viable and creative workforce, we need to get over this fear of Religion. If people wish to live "off grid" and keep their children out of the "system", then they need to sign an agreement to not ask for public help when things go awry. The poor children, however may request help on their own.

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On the one hand, yes I think there needs to be some sort of oversight to minimize systemic abuses and educational neglect.

On the other hand, I don't think it's very fair if the requirements homeschoolers need to meet are higher than the requirements public schools are held to. Example: the only elementary school in my town is rated as failing per no child left behind. Under that law, the parents should have the right to send their kid to another, not failing school. Except there isn't another school in the district. So every kid in my town is stuck going to a school that fails to meet minimum standards. To take a theoretical homeschooler in who isn't meeting the minimum requirements and put them in a school that is failing to meet the minimum requirements seems rather pointless, doesn't it? No matter where how kids are educated--public, private or homeschool---some kids are going to fall through the cracks. There's no guarantee that all kids are going to succeed in anyone system. The best thing we can do is provide easy access to help for those who need it and hope for the best.

Also, I would add that it seems rather unfair that the Amish get a big pass on undereducating their children (forcing them out of school at 8th grade) but everyone loves to talk about how horrible it is that Quiverfull fundies are shortchanging their kids by not providing them with decent homeschool.

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On the one hand, yes I think there needs to be some sort of oversight to minimize systemic abuses and educational neglect.

On the other hand, I don't think it's very fair if the requirements homeschoolers need to meet are higher than the requirements public schools are held to. Example: the only elementary school in my town is rated as failing per no child left behind. Under that law, the parents should have the right to send their kid to another, not failing school. Except there isn't another school in the district. So every kid in my town is stuck going to a school that fails to meet minimum standards. To take a theoretical homeschooler in who isn't meeting the minimum requirements and put them in a school that is failing to meet the minimum requirements seems rather pointless, doesn't it? No matter where how kids are educated--public, private or homeschool---some kids are going to fall through the cracks. There's no guarantee that all kids are going to succeed in anyone system. The best thing we can do is provide easy access to help for those who need it and hope for the best.

Also, I would add that it seems rather unfair that the Amish get a big pass on undereducating their children (forcing them out of school at 8th grade) but everyone loves to talk about how horrible it is that Quiverfull fundies are shortchanging their kids by not providing them with decent homeschool.

To the bolded. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't think anyone was suggesting this.

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Homeschooled kids should have to pass a regular academic progress test. Same with private school kids.

As for the Amish, I think the Supreme Court made a huge mistake in allowing them to get out of schooling their kids past eighth grade for religious reasons.

Just because parents have the ultimate authority over their children doesn't mean that they should be allowed to progressively fuck up their kids' lives by withholding education. And, considering that the Quiverfull girls are being groomed to be the "teachers in the home," I submit that in a generation or two, the kids will be so poorly educated that this talk of taking over the nation for Jeebus (not to be confused with that guy in the Gospels) will sound exceptionally funny.

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I couldn't have said it any batter than FlorenceHamilton.

Don't these knuckleheads (the malicious ones) realize what a disservice they're doing their kids, and the world? No, I guess not. That'd take an education to appreciate!

There really should be a term for people who use homeschooling as cover for neglect. Educational abuses? Intellect punishers? Mindwasters?

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The blogger mentioned on this thread is a good example of someone who should not be homeschooling.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8699

This woman hasn't been off the couch in ten friggin years, her kids are house slaves and she insists she home schools to superior standards while not managing to learn how to spell and grammar check (no less learn the real skills without the short cut tools).

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Homeschooled kids should have to pass a regular academic progress test. Same with private school kids.

As for the Amish, I think the Supreme Court made a huge mistake in allowing them to get out of schooling their kids past eighth grade for religious reasons.

Just because parents have the ultimate authority over their children doesn't mean that they should be allowed to progressively fuck up their kids' lives by withholding education. And, considering that the Quiverfull girls are being groomed to be the "teachers in the home," I submit that in a generation or two, the kids will be so poorly educated that this talk of taking over the nation for Jeebus (not to be confused with that guy in the Gospels) will sound exceptionally funny.

:text-yeahthat:

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To the bolded. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't think anyone was suggesting this.

I think the assumption in most articles that talk about kids not doing well in homeschooling is that they should be put in school. What is the other alternative? I know in my state, if the local superintendent thinks your homeschooling program isn't working, they have the power to end your homeschooling program, which is a lot of power to have, especially if it's not exercised judiciously.

I think it's sad that über-religious parents force their kids to conform to their parents' expectations. But I can't think of any alternative that would be better. I don't think it would be better for the government to have ultimate power over children's educations. They have a lot less reason to care about individual children than the parents. So the question becomes: if parents aren't supposed to decide what is best (in their opinion) for their children, then who?

I plan on homeschooling my kids, but at the same time I recognize that if I had been homeschooled, it would have been very bad for me in spite of the difficulties I had in school simply because my mother's limitations left very little room in her life for us kids. So I'm glad I went to public school. I'm also glad that there were programs out there, such as IB that gave me the opportunity to be challenged and have better education than I would have otherwise received in the standard curriculum at my high school.

Maybe a good alternative would be to have ad campaigns letting these kids know they can sue for emancipation from their parents if their parents are failing to give them any input in their education :p

Oh and on another note, I remember when I was reading about unschooling, I read about this one parent whose 16 year old could not read and she recalls how he struggled so much to read to learn for his driver's test :shock: but then he suddenly figured it out and was reading within grade level in just a few months! Wow! amazing (that was sarcastic). Her whole point was that kids will get it eventually and you shouldn't force them! Sorry, but sometimes kids need outside help and encouragement and as a parent, that's what you're there for. How many years did that kid lose that he could have been learning and reading and gathering knowledge? What if he had had a problem that, with proper therapy, could have had him reading a lot sooner?

Homeschooled kids should have to pass a regular academic progress test. Same with private school kids.

And same with public school kids. But there are so many public school kids who fail to learn to read and graduate high school functionally illiterate. The system fails them. They might not be failing to learn so they can take over the country for Jeebus, but it's still sucks for them.

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I think the assumption in most articles that talk about kids not doing well in homeschooling is that they should be put in school. What is the other alternative? I know in my state, if the local superintendent thinks your homeschooling program isn't working, they have the power to end your homeschooling program, which is a lot of power to have, especially if it's not exercised judiciously.

I think it's sad that über-religious parents force their kids to conform to their parents' expectations. But I can't think of any alternative that would be better. I don't think it would be better for the government to have ultimate power over children's educations. They have a lot less reason to care about individual children than the parents. So the question becomes: if parents aren't supposed to decide what is best (in their opinion) for their children, then who?

I plan on homeschooling my kids, but at the same time I recognize that if I had been homeschooled, it would have been very bad for me in spite of the difficulties I had in school simply because my mother's limitations left very little room in her life for us kids. So I'm glad I went to public school. I'm also glad that there were programs out there, such as IB that gave me the opportunity to be challenged and have better education than I would have otherwise received in the standard curriculum at my high school.

Maybe a good alternative would be to have ad campaigns letting these kids know they can sue for emancipation from their parents if their parents are failing to give them any input in their education :p

Oh and on another note, I remember when I was reading about unschooling, I read about this one parent whose 16 year old could not read and she recalls how he struggled so much to read to learn for his driver's test :shock: but then he suddenly figured it out and was reading within grade level in just a few months! Wow! amazing (that was sarcastic). Her whole point was that kids will get it eventually and you shouldn't force them! Sorry, but sometimes kids need outside help and encouragement and as a parent, that's what you're there for. How many years did that kid lose that he could have been learning and reading and gathering knowledge? What if he had had a problem that, with proper therapy, could have had him reading a lot sooner?

And same with public school kids. But there are so many public school kids who fail to learn to read and graduate high school functionally illiterate. The system fails them. They might not be failing to learn so they can take over the country for Jeebus, but it's still sucks for them.

Actually if what you said is true, that home schooling laws in your state hold you to a higher standard than public schools I'd pursue the argument up to the state board or at least via the local board. It sounds like your state has some oversight of homeschooling.

Me I'd just be happy if they would track the home schoolers in Oregon so it wouldn't be so easy for their parents to murder them.

BTW I'm long done with the kid raising process, but my DD went to an ebil public school that wasn't highly rated. I felt as a parent I had a responsibility of contributing to our local schools, I routinely sat on the curriculum committee. I also felt that as a parent public education was only a single portion of my DDs learning experience. Consequently she had additional homeschooling, in a variety of core curriculum areas.

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Actually if what you said is true, that home schooling laws in your state hold you to a higher standard than public schools I'd pursue the argument up to the state board or at least via the local board. It sounds like your state has some oversight of homeschooling.

Me I'd just be happy if they would track the home schoolers in Oregon so it wouldn't be so easy for their parents to murder them.

BTW I'm long done with the kid raising process, but my DD went to an ebil public school that wasn't highly rated. I felt as a parent I had a responsibility of contributing to our local schools, I routinely sat on the curriculum committee. I also felt that as a parent public education was only a single portion of my DDs learning experience. Consequently she had additional homeschooling, in a variety of core curriculum areas.

Here's the relevant bit from the homeschooling laws in my state:

The commissioner of education, resident district superintendent, or nonpublic school principal shall review the results of the annual educational evaluation of the child in a home education program as provided in paragraph II. If the child does not demonstrate educational progress for age and ability at a level commensurate with his ability, the commissioner, superintendent, or principal shall notify the parent, in writing, that such progress has not been achieved. The parent shall have one year from the date of receipt of the written notification to provide remedial instruction to the child. At the end of the one-year probationary period, the child shall be reevaluated in a manner as provided in this section. Continuation in a home education program shall be contingent upon the child demonstrating at the end of the probationary period educational progress commensurate with his age and ability.

here's hte link I got it from: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/htm ... -a-mrg.htm

there was actually a case in my state not too long ago where a child was forced into public school in spite of the fact she was doing quite well with a homeschooling curriculum. The issue was that the parents were divorced and the father disagreed with homeschooling because the mother was fundie and was homeschooling for religious reasons. He was concerned his daughter would be raised very sheltered and with beliefs he did not agree with. It was a very interesting case.

In a lot of ways I do think that homeschoolers in my state are held to a higher standard than public school students.

There definitely needs to be some sort of 'keeping track'--parents shouldn't be able to murder their kids and not have anyone notice! But it's so hard to find a perfect solution. The assumption a lot of times is along the lines of "if that child weren't homeschooled, they wouldn't have been killed/abused/illiterate." But no one can say that for sure. There are plenty of kids who go to schools who are abused, whose parents kill them and who remain uneducated. The problem generally lies in a different area than the method of education. What we need is stronger community ties so that children in bad situations know they can turn to their neighbors to help them out, in school or not.

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Example: the only elementary school in my town is rated as failing per no child left behind.

Are you aware that under the idiotic NCLB act, a school can be considered to be failing because it's students haven't progressed in the last two years, even though the majority of them were already proficient or advanced?

It's really not a good way to judge how good a school actually is.

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This has become such a hot issue. Public education is also having its own problems. As a nation, we have given up our priority to have a well educated populace. Instead, we are becoming ideologues who are more interested in "training" young people to one way of thinking or another. We are becoming a third world country in the process.

I have said this before and I will say it again. Children benefit from an education that comes from public, private and home/parental sources all working together. We should have a government run basic and supplemental education that will give all children the opportunity to learn to read, to think, to perform methematics, to think, to reason, to be exposed to literature, philosophy, history, science and the arts. They should have a place to go that is safe and has pooled resources to provide equipment and trained staff to imprt the information. Children with differences need sponsorship and assistance to attain their goals as well. Private edcational facilities should be able to provide the same as the public facilities and have the freedom to add religious doctrine or specialty education of other sorts. Homeschooled children should be entitled to the same things. I believe that homeschooled children should have public resources available (and required) if the home program cannot provide the basic skills that are required by ALL schools.

Lack of education for religious reasons is simply not a sustainable rationale. If we are to be Americans and live in a nation that can move from one generation to the next with a viable and creative workforce, we need to get over this fear of Religion. If people wish to live "off grid" and keep their children out of the "system", then they need to sign an agreement to not ask for public help when things go awry. The poor children, however may request help on their own.

Yeah, the kindergardeners of No Child Left Behind are graduating.

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Homeschooled kids should have to pass a regular academic progress test. Same with private school kids.

This- I subbed in a few private schools before I found a permanent position in a public school. They were all over the map in academics- for this reason I'd be really leary to send a potential child of mine to private school. I'm also glad that my siblings feel the same way.

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This- I subbed in a few private schools before I found a permanent position in a public school. They were all over the map in academics- for this reason I'd be really leary to send a potential child of mine to private school. I'm also glad that my siblings feel the same way.

My personal difficultly with some nonreligious home schoolers is that rather than be part of a solution and help build community by becoming involved in their local schools their first impulse is to keep their kids out of public education.

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I tell you what, I feel like I missed out BIG time being home schooled, as far as my math skills are concerned. I was given a lot of flexibility and lots of access to books, which made me into a voracious lifelong reader, but I wasn't pushed very hard with math. Even though my dad is an engineer, and could have provided me with all the math help I needed, he largely chose to ignore our education and leave it all to my mother, who, bless her heart, only (barely) had a high-school education at the time. So me, a pretty bright kid who loved school, was left with a minimal education in math. When I transitioned into public high school, I was in all AP classes for English, all sciences, and History, took 4 years of French, and really excelled except for in math, where I never made past Algebra 1. I tried to take Algebra in college and failed miserably. That pretty much killed my dreams of a Biology degree. I place the blame squarely on a frankly sub-par education during my elementary and middle school years.

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My personal difficultly with some nonreligious home schoolers is that rather than be part of a solution and help build community by becoming involved in their local schools their first impulse is to keep their kids out of public education.

Yes, I see that among some of my aquaintances. At least they are in a charter school program, because it's pretty much required here in CA if you're homeschooling. My siblings are both very much the public school type, and there is a graduate degree in each of our households.

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As a parent I've homeschooled, public schooled and hybrid cooperative schooled. As a highly qualified professional, I've taught in public and private prep schools. Experiece DD, for many secular homeschoolers, removing their children from public school was a last resort after attempting to be very involved in schools and advocating for change. I'm annoyed by the tone of this article. What percentage of public and private school students are functionally illiterate by age 11? My first year as a teacher I was shocked when I had a high school class come in and fully 1/3 of them were unable to read well enough to do my work or read at all. We spent the semester learning to read instead of working exulsively on my subject speciality. People may be afraid of the SOTDRT but they are also validy afraid of the quality of public education when they volunteer in the school, attend site coucil meetings, PTA meetings and school board meetings and yet nothing improves and their voices are discounted. Now that I've personally experience many forms of successful education, I find I am more open to the reality that there are many paths to many positive destinations. There are some disasterous paths to many dangerous destinations. It is the individual's and the individual family's responsibility to find the pathway that is best suits goals.

I like the service Vickie provides to women and children of the quiverfull movement. She clearly agonizes over and regrets the way she educated or didn't education her children, but we can't use her experience as the litmus test for millions of children, just like we shouldn't use the failure of a single public school student as the litmus test for validity of public education. To do either commits a logical fallacy.

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My personal difficultly with some nonreligious home schoolers is that rather than be part of a solution and help build community by becoming involved in their local schools their first impulse is to keep their kids out of public education.

You can be involved in your local school AND homeschool your kids at the same time. I've been doing it for years. There isn't a single good reason I can think of to put my kids into a failing system when I do not have to. I realize many parents do not have a choice, but I do have a choice and I made the choice to invest in their education while still volunteering at the local school and trying to change the system.

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