Does The Dislike For Christian Evangelism Surprise You?

[debrand]

When I was a Christian, I was made uncomfortable by the dishonesty that some of my fellow Christians used to win converts. Anything from faking friendship to outright lying was encouraged. There were many people that I knew who would pray for others' conversion. This might not seem bad until you realize that they pretended for years that they were tolerant of their loved one's faith when they were secretly hoping for a conversion. Their tolerance was a lie.

Because Christians believe that they are showing love by sharing their faith, it must come as a surprise to realize that non Christians don't view their actions as kind. It would have shocked me that most people really, really dislike attempts to win souls.

One of the reasons that I have not told my friends and family of my lack of faith is that I don't want to be the subject of proselytization. The idea that my friends are secretly waiting for the moment to convert me just bothers me. Take my word for it, these people would not simply accept my lack of faith and the peace that I have.

This board is the first place that I have heard both nonChristians and Christians calling out people who proselytize. Are some of you surprised by the dislike of evangelism? Does the dislike change how you deal with nonChristians? Can you understand why people might get offended? Have you experienced anyone trying to win you to their faith or lack of faith?

For nonChristians...Have you ever had anyone be dishonest in their attempts to win you to their faith? How did you handle it?

I was rather broad in my above statements. I know that many Christians are loving people who just want their friends and family to be happy. They accept that other people can find joy and contentment in other faiths or no faith at all.

Also, I understand that just because someone talks about their beliefs doesn't mean that they are trying to win others to their faith.

[JesusFightClub]

Non Christian here. It's a very interesting question. I will be intrigued to see Christian responses.

I would assume people would being dishonest if they were trying to convert me, but I would expect them to be. So I don't feel surprised to discover that someone who's been giving me a bit of Jesus and puppydog eyes may be more interested in me as a notch on the conversion bedpost than as a best mate ;)

American fundies get particularly overexcited because of my politics, and I suppose that would make the conversion, if successful, sound like they were battling against more interesting demonic forces or something. *shrug*

I've got loads of examples, but they all follow the same pattern, familiar to most of FJ. I am all for the ends justifying the means and I don't get pissed off at them for it. I just don't trust the fuckers, and this has served me well.

[Childless]

Hmmm........ I've actually had the opposite experience. I think mostly because the wanna be converter is a relative, so that person feels that they don't have to put up a nicey nice front. Most of this person's proselytization techniques involve telling me how shitty my life/marriage/beliefs/etc. are and how everything I do and think is wrong. At least the person is honest which is better than someone trying to trick you into their belief system. Still, it's not a very effective way to win a soul. No one likes being treated that way.

As to the Christians who do lie, it's not very effective either. Do they honestly think someone will remain in their religion once they figure out they've been lied to? How do they think that person will view that particular religion when their first and only experience in it is negative? What do think that person will say about your religion to others? Those types Christians aren't very bright.

[Cran]

I had dishonesty in the broadest sense used on me.

Background: I was raised Lutheran, converted to Catholicism as grown-up but do not practice any longer.

In the time I was an active Catholic, many members of free Christian churches tried to convince me that I was hell-bound, the pope the Antichrist and so on and convert me to their branch of Christianity, and I couldn't avoid those people, because I used to moderate in a Christian forum and through that, I knew many other moderators and members in real life, as well.

One day, I would explain them In all patience why their arguments where wrong, and they said something like "Oh, well, I didn't understand that, that is really different than I thought!" and a few weeks later, they'd come to me with the same bullshit again, or post online with their old arguments against the church.

Pissed me of to no end.

[darareaksmey]

Christian here. I was raised (Lutheran) to know that it's a good thing to share the gospel with other people. There was no distinction between the (for lack of better words) "saved" and the "unsaved." But it was not something I did, or frankly anyone I knew did. Maybe because everyone we knew already was Christian.

It wasn't till I went off to a Southern Baptist college that many, many other Christians called my own Christianity into question. I wasn't a real Christian according to them. I 'd been baptized as an infant. I hadn't made a personal decision to have Jesus as my Lord and Savior, etc., etc. In other words, it was time for me to be on the receiving end of some of that evangelism that I'd never found it necessary to practice. And let me tell you, it pissed me off mightily. You have not lived till you've attended a church service with a friend, then turned around to find a whole room full of frumper-wearers praying for you, that your heart would be turned to Jesus. I did not appreciate it; I left that service and spent the greater part of that semester hiding from that "friend." She finally transferred out. I vowed I would never do that to others. Instead, I'd try to live a life with Christ as example and, if people asked me about my faith, share with them only then.

And I've kept that promise. I've lightened up slightly on people who try to evangelize to me. If they ask me if I know Jesus, I tell them yes, and move on. I"m not lying to them, but I know they wouldn't agree with me, and frankly I don't feel like arguing.

The only even remotely unwilling people I"ve ever evangelized have been my own kids. When they are of age, they're free to reject it all; but them, I'l always pray for. Other people I pray for only if you ask for prayers.

So the short answer is, NO, it doesn't surprise me that others dislike being evangelized. I didn't like it myself. But in a way that experience was a blessing, because it taught me greater tolerance for non-Christians. It also taught me to value my own faith, where we recognize that Jesus chooses us and we don't have to make some public choice of him.

[debrand]

I had dishonesty in the broadest sense used on me.

Background: I was raised Lutheran, converted to Catholicism as grown-up but do not practice any longer.

In the time I was an active Catholic, many members of free Christian churches tried to convince me that I was hell-bound, the pope the Antichrist and so on and convert me to their branch of Christianity, and I couldn't avoid those people, because I used to moderate in a Christian forum and through that, I knew many other moderators and members in real life, as well.

One day, I would explain them In all patience why their arguments where wrong, and they said something like "Oh, well, I didn't understand that, that is really different than I thought!" and a few weeks later, they'd come to me with the same bullshit again, or post online with their old arguments against the church.

Pissed me of to no end.

I've seen this and I don't know how to explain it. Correcting someone, even giving them references, won't change what they want to believe. It is like talking to a brick wall. Maybe they need a reason for their set of beliefs to be better than other people's.

[desertvixen]

I get that some relatives are genuinely concerned for what they see as the state of their family members' souls... but it's still irritating.

After her first husband died, my stepfather's mother remarried to a serious born-again type, who consistently tried to proselytize to my (agnostic) stepfather, as well as making her all concerned that her younger son, daughter-in-law, and four grandbabies were going to Hell (they are Catholic, as am I).

Being Catholic, the whole "witnessing" thing is just foreign to me.

[ZTwist]

Doesn't surprise me at all, who likes to be told they are wrong? As a Quaker (raised Presbyterian) I, and many other Quakers, believe there are many paths, Christian and non-Christian, to the Devine. Therefore, no need to proselytize or win converts.

[Avalondaughter]

I think the biggest attempts at conversion I ever had were when I was pre-teen and teenager by adults.

I wasn't annoyed by the attempts. They showed me so much love and acceptance. They emphasized love all of the time. I saw them as people who were extremely happy and at peace, who really had their act together. I wanted the peace and happiness they seemed to have.

Back then I was willing to consider and accept what they had to teach me, so I wasn't annoyed. Now I feel a bit irritated because their beliefs no longer seem rational to me. But I still don't blame them for what they do. If they are happy and content with their reglion and it has brought joy to their lives, then why wouldn't they want to share it, especially with people they care about?

[Rosa]

When I was a little kid, it really hurt my feelings how whenever we moved to a new town the "Christian" kids would reach out to be my friend and then drop me like a hot rock a few months later after I'd been to church & stuff with them but not had a conversion experience (my family's Methodist, so it took me a LONG time to realize the Baptist kids were waiting for a "conversion" - I didn't see a lot of difference between the churches except ours always had a nicer building.)

As an adult, that hasn't happened to me - I react to people being inexplicably nice to me with deep suspicion because in my experience they are recruiters of some sort (sales, religious, political) or they are users looking for a codependent to cling to.

[debrand]

I think the biggest attempts at conversion I ever had were when I was pre-teen and teenager by adults.

I wasn't annoyed by the attempts. They showed me so much love and acceptance. They emphasized love all of the time. I saw them as people who were extremely happy and at peace, who really had their act together. I wanted the peace and happiness they seemed to have.

Back then I was willing to consider and accept what they had to teach me, so I wasn't annoyed. Now I feel a bit irritated because their beliefs no longer seem rational to me. But I still don't blame them for what they do. If they are happy and content with their reglion and it has brought joy to their lives, then why wouldn't they want to share it, especially with people they care about?

I've become really cynical of kindness used as a conversion attempt. When I was a Christian, we would encourage one another to show love and kindness to nonChristians so that they would convert. It wasn't true charity for the sake of being charitable.

People can be happy and content with their religion, even enjoy discussing it and yet never try to convert anyone. Pagans and Jews, for the most part, don't try to convert people. There are Christians who don't try to convert others.

[bea]

Cradle Catholic here, raising my kids as Catholic, but I practice a mish-mash of folk magick and ceremonial magick.

The first time I was faced with in-my-face evangelism was in college, when the Campus Crusade for Christ started stalking students. I was at a Catholic university, too, which made it even weirder to be minding my own business studying under a tree and be leaped upon (figuratively) by someone trying to win my soul to Jeebus.

Luckily, the university administration (which was Jesuit) was just as unsettled by the CCforC as the students, and they were warned off in short order. Didn't stop them from stealth attacks, though. A lot of students used to cheerfully go along with the conversation until we got the Crusader's name, whereupon we'd report them to the university administration.

I think evangelism is, basically, RUDE. It assumes that YOUR PERSONAL interpretation of religion and God is the right one, and that anyone who is exposed to it will automatically switch their views to align with yours. Saying "it's not that I don't understand, I just don't agree" to evangelists has confused many people, let me tell you.

Giving them a gimlet eye and saying "Fuck off, I"m a witch" has also worked, I admit.

[Avalondaughter]

I've become really cynical of kindness used as a conversion attempt. When I was a Christian, we would encourage one another to show love and kindness to nonChristians so that they would convert. It wasn't true charity for the sake of being charitable.

People can be happy and content with their religion, even enjoy discussing it and yet never try to convert anyone. Pagans and Jews, for the most part, don't try to convert people. There are Christians who don't try to convert others.

You do have an excellent point. For one thing, it didn't take me too long in the world to see that people of other religions could be happy - and Christians could be miserable. I grew up believing Christians were the happiest, most peaceful people ever. I learned that Christianity is not going to solve one's issues with self-loathing! Christians are also one of the few religions that do proselytize.

I am only speaking of my early experiences where I truly believe the folks who were trying to convert me, truly cared about me. Granted, I wasn't totally honest either. I wasn't really committed to Christianity, and while I intended to be saved at one point (once I figured out how to be saved and how I would feel saved), I never really was officially saved, but I did let my church leaders and Bible camp counselors believe that I was saved.

I've also had friends who joined churches and felt that sense of loving acceptance in the beginning, but once they were fully members, they were dropped in favor of winning over the next soul. Christians are just as exclusive and cliquey within their own circles as the rest of us.

[dairyfreelife]

I don't like it because I think people should believe whatever they want as long as that believe does not cause harm to others (physical mostly is what I am thinking). I never really liked it because it assumes unnecessarily that a person is not happy when they are or that because someone is of a different denomination (never mind holding similar beliefs about God and Jesus), that they are not "real" Christians and never converted. So, no, is does not surprise me at all that evangelizing is disliked.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think evangelism is, basically, RUDE. It assumes that YOUR PERSONAL interpretation of religion and God is the right one, and that anyone who is exposed to it will automatically switch their views to align with yours.

This is where I'm at, and I will admit that I pretty much HATE missionaries and the entire idea of evangelism. They come across as shrill people each standing on the street corner yelling about how they have the only path to truth, while (1) spouting nonsense and (2) contradicting each other. In my experience they were foreign people who just blindly assume they know what's best without understanding anything, and being condescending. They will happily say that well-regarded charitable people are going to burn forever because they didn't believe. And they think they're somehow saving the world. Saving the little ignorant children. Argh. But it's not quite lying. If anything, the coercion those people will do is provide services, and then insidiously start pumping the belief into little kids. It's a different sort of deception, in my view. (It's possible to be religious and provide services and NOT do this. Also just being a nice person while religious and attracting people by your example is not this.)

On the other hand, there some amount of lying (or lying by omission, I think) in certain kinds of apologetics aimed at winning either converts or "born-again" (or BT, if we're talking Jewish outreach). They show the perfect family life, the warm gatherings, and oh yeah, our beliefs are very friendly, we accept you as you are, no problem! but it's only later on once people are hooked in that the demands start up. Well, yeah, if you want to belong you have to believe Z as well as X and Y. And you can find conversations among the insider outreach people talking strategically about how you can't bring up Z right away because they KNOW it turns seekers off. Only once they've swallowed Y and changed belief systems enough to make the group their main social outlet already, THEN you bust out Z - when they're closer to it already because they accepted Y, and they're looking back at burnt bridges. To me that's dishonest. As is tarting up Z with all kinds of flowery language if it's done specifically because they know outsiders won't take to it otherwise.

[valsa]

Also just being a nice person while religious and attracting people by your example is not this.

I agree. The only religious charitable workers I can respect are the people who do their good works, with no strings attached, and simply let it be known via general knowledge that they are X religion. If you help people and do good things, people will look positively on you and that will extend to looking positively on whatever religion you are part of.

Once you start requiring people to believe as you do to get help, or at least sit through your preaching, all your charity is looked on with suspicion (as it should be)

[Deleted07]

I pretty much agree with everyone :)

I've never really cared if people believe in whatever religion or even in green-egg-men! Whatever gets you through the day! As long as no one is being made to be subservient and or abused in any way, I'm cool with it. And as long as you're not trying to convert me when I've said to you, "look, I'm really not interested!"

Raised Catholic, in my teen years I just couldn't get over how bigoted and rich (as in monetarily!) their system was, not to mention contradictory! When they weren't really doing anything in or for the community! As well as the fact that our teachers all seemed to not even be living the life they were trying to teach us about! lol.

When I was searching for other religions I was impressed with The Salvation Army religion, that at least they put their deeds where their faith was. All of the people I had met were quite humble and lovely and were not overly evangelical and answered my questions and discussions without criticism. So was just impressed with the ACTUAL help that they all did. But a lot of their teachings, I personally, couldn't agree with, I'm just far more liberal in my views on sexuality, womens rights to choose etc..

In my search the most 'cliquey' group I ever came across were Jehovah of Witness, which surprised me considering they are the ones who door-knock most!!! They basically will not associate with anyone outside their faith, which makes it hard for when you are trying to find out if that faith is right for you, (its like they expect you to just join and not want information beforehand? I dunno! It was weird for me) they were not keen on me asking questions and I just felt very they were quite condescending toward me, so my interest didn't last long.

[Deleted07]

Also just wanted to say, with missionaries trying to convert poorer countries etc... I often wonder if the people in these countries just follow the religion, just so that they get the help that these places offer??? As in groceries, clothing, education etc...

Thats one thing I couldn't help but feel when watching that Duggars in El Salvador episode... How they were saying that they help this family with all these things, but couldn't help but think would they help if he didn't convert??? Course not!.

If you're living in a country as poor as that and you have a family to raise, I think MOST people would just convert for the perks? Sorry if that sounds mean, but its something I REALLY feel would happen!

[valsa]

If you're living in a country as poor as that and you have a family to raise, I think MOST people would just convert for the perks? Sorry if that sounds mean, but its something I REALLY feel would happen!

That's not mean, it's common sense. Unless there would be a very severe social backlash from converting, it's a pretty easy choice between your religion and your family starving (though lying about converting would serve the same purpose)

[anniebgood]

Christian here. I was raised (Lutheran) to know that it's a good thing to share the gospel with other people. There was no distinction between the (for lack of better words) "saved" and the "unsaved." But it was not something I did, or frankly anyone I knew did. Maybe because everyone we knew already was Christian.

It wasn't till I went off to a Southern Baptist college that many, many other Christians called my own Christianity into question. I wasn't a real Christian according to them. I 'd been baptized as an infant. I hadn't made a personal decision to have Jesus as my Lord and Savior, etc., etc. In other words, it was time for me to be on the receiving end of some of that evangelism that I'd never found it necessary to practice. And let me tell you, it pissed me off mightily. You have not lived till you've attended a church service with a friend, then turned around to find a whole room full of frumper-wearers praying for you, that your heart would be turned to Jesus. I did not appreciate it; I left that service and spent the greater part of that semester hiding from that "friend." She finally transferred out. I vowed I would never do that to others. Instead, I'd try to live a life with Christ as example and, if people asked me about my faith, share with them only then.

bolding mine.

Were you confirmed? Did you promise to renounce the devil and all his promises? Did you then affirm that you believed in Jesus Christ, His Father, and The Holy Spirit? You then made your personal decision for yourself. It pisses me off that because we are a liturgical church people don't believe that we give a person the right to choose for themselves.

My pentecostal relatives can't understand that we started very young with our children and they made the commitment when they were old enough to understand. They may not go to church every Sunday but they do go. They hold their beliefs out front, their friends know that they are Christian and they believe.

[Beeks]

Very interesting question and responses! I can't wait to read more.

As for me, I'm Jewish. The only attempts to convert me/tell me about Jesus have come from people handing out those stupid money tracts (I just called them out and asked why they felt the need to trick people into accepting something from them) and mormons and JW's knockin on my door. With the mormons, who come extremely often because my husband was raised mormon and converted to Judaism, I politely tell them we are all happy being Jewish but they can chat if they want to. They usually do, about non-religious things. With the JW's I'm not as polite and just usually tell them I'm not interested while walking away/closing the door.

We live in a pretty liberal area so we don't get a whole lot of Jesus Camp types =)

[Guest Anonymous]

The dislike for Christian evangelism really surprised me, after I deconverted. :P :oops:

I now, of course, don't like evangelism, but I think I still understand it. Certainly, when I was a young, fervent Christian I genuinely cared for my friends and the people I shared the gospel with. I just saw the gospel message as an extension of how much I cared for them: I wanted to extend friendship, care, and the gospel with people I came into contact with. I didn't stop trying to befriend people after a certain amount of time was up, or withold support or help because people believed different things to me.

I found it really hard to get my head around others 'need' to evangelise to me, after I left my faith behind. It was painful for a long time, and part of the pain was because I did understand where they were coming from. To my Christian friends I had 'backslidden' and lost the most important thing in the world, of eternal significance, and they were genuinely hurting for me. The only way we have really reconciled ourselves to the situation is by talking about it less, which is sad, but really understandable as I was once there and experienced the feelings they are now feeling for me.... :|

[changemanagement]

Answer - No.

I've never really been subjected to much evangelism I was baptised and confirmed in the Episcopal church. I was aware of the JWs and Mormons who came knocking on the door, but apparently I've been living in a fundie-free bubble.

As a middle aged woman who is quite content with how I deal "privately" with my faith, I think it's horribly rude to be evangelised to . I didn't ask you to and I don't want you to. I will be horribly rude back to you.

A few weeks ago, I was in the basement when the doorbell rang. I hobbled up the stairs (arthritis) because I thought it was UPS. It was JWs. I opened the door, saw them, and slammed the door. Took about 1 second. I was pissed and not sorry about my rudeness.

After visiting this board for the past several years, I am even less tolerant of being preached at or preached to by random people.

[darareaksmey]

bolding mine.

Were you confirmed? Did you promise to renounce the devil and all his promises? Did you then affirm that you believed in Jesus Christ, His Father, and The Holy Spirit? You then made your personal decision for yourself. It pisses me off that because we are a liturgical church people don't believe that we give a person the right to choose for themselves.

My pentecostal relatives can't understand that we started very young with our children and they made the commitment when they were old enough to understand. They may not go to church every Sunday but they do go. They hold their beliefs out front, their friends know that they are Christian and they believe.

Oh sure, I was confirmed, and my son was just confirmed and my daughter will be confirmed next year. But very honestly, I didn't consider that to amount me picking Jesus out of every religion in the world as my Lord and Savior, or asking him to "come into my heart" or some such tripe. I understood completely that this was that public profession; but I didn't have to make it; and I would still have been a Christian even if I hadn't. Basically I just did it because my mother wanted me to, and so I could have the dubious honor of being able to vote in church. But the Baptists and even fundy-er types with whom I was surrounded at college didn't see that as good enough. It's not an answer to an altar call, nor a public witness, to them. It took me a while to decide that this was their lack of understanding, not mine.

[Rosa]

I have a friend who is really into cults, who was raised crazy Christian and knows all sorts of detailed Bible stuff, but also likes to know about cults and reads their magazines and stuff. So when people evangelize to her she's really excited - she asks them lots of detailed questions and mentions their leaders & publications by name and asks stuff like "So does Michael still heal people by sleeping naked with them?"

The real cultists often run away from her as fast as they can, because they're supposed to be vague and not give out their real names and stuff. The crazy Christians often assume she's one of them (at a wedding last year, someone asked her where she went to church and she said "I don't" and they said "Oh are you homechurching?) It's an amazing talent, I keep trying to get her over here.