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http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/ar ... 1208.shtml

 

Perhaps this has been discussed before but I don't remember.

 

Mrs Chancey

 

 

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However, the Bible does clearly demonstrate that a girl who "plays the harlot" and entices men is to be held accountable for her actions (see Lev. 21:9 and Deut. 22:20-21). When a girl wears a "come-on" look and skimpy clothing, she is inviting wrong attentions (sometimes on purpose, but more often because that's just our culture and "fashion" these days). Mrs. Sherman has gotten a lot of feedback in the past from angry women who declare that a woman is never responsible no matter what if a man comes on to her or rapes her. Saying a girl must not invite bad attention or wear indecent clothing does not excuse the wickedness of the men who prey upon young girls, but it does exhort girls to be careful of the message they are sending through their clothing and attitudes.

 

As far as rape statistics being the same today as they were in the past, we do have historical accounts to show us that rape and assault increase as a nation's morals decline. I have first-person diaries, letters, and biographies from the late 18th century through the early 20th century that show clearly that men who assaulted women were held to account to an extreme degree. Many times citizens took matters into their own hands and shot a man or ran him out of town for insulting their women (not that vigilante "justice" is biblical, but it just illustrates the point that the virtue of womanhood was cherished by gentlemen). Yes, we have had sin with us since the Fall, but there are times when it is rampant and open and times when it is held in check by godly magistrates. The death penalty for rape was carried out until our more "enlightened" times dictated that a man couldn't be held accountable for rape. This was a strong deterrent, but today rape has almost lost its meaning in the wash of rampant fornication and "hooking up." Because the majority of girls play the harlot, your average man doesn't see any need to protect women or honor them. One target is just like the next. This is tragic! In a nation that honors God's laws and enforces stiff penalties for crimes, the crime rate drops sharply--witness the 74% drop in the crime rate in Kennesaw, Georgia, after that city's mayor publicly announced that all citizens would be encouraged to arm themselves for self defense in case of break-ins (see this link)!

 

Mrs. Sherman

 

 

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One thing I have had the opportunity to observe in my community is a religious sect called the Mennonites. I never hear of any of their children, girls, or women being abducted, molested, raped, or dealt with treacherously. I find that interesting, because they follow two guidelines in their behavior: they dress in a very simple, modest manner, and they stay near their authorities. Although I am not of this sect, I find the fact that they do not suffer the maladies of modern society such as I mentioned very heartening. I am not suggesting we dress exactly as they do or even follow their beliefs, but I am suggesting we take a good look at the ingredients that go into their lifestyle, which looks like a pretty safe one for women.

 

People understand the concept of danger in relation to tomato plants and small children---(protecting them from frost and sunburn, etc.), but they pretend not to understand that there is a segment of our society that will need special protection--the independent, lightweight young girls with cute figures are the ones for the most part who are going missing from a public place. I'm not saying that there are no exceptions; there are. What I am saying is that we can create more safety for ourselves by what we wear, where we go, what we do, and who we are with. The girls I mentioned advertising for the car wash,were on a street corner at a stop light. All someone had to do was open the car door, pull them in, and speed off.

 

If it is someone else's fault that our young girls are snatched and assaulted, then it is someone else's fault that our cars are stolen when we leave the keys in and the doors unlocked in a public place. Everyone with an ounce of sense will do what they can to protect their cars and not leave them open. You never hear anyone say, "I should be allowed to leave my car unlocked, and if someone steals it, that's their fault!" We understand this in the realm of cars and material possessions, but why don't we understand it in relation to our daughters? Is a car worthy of greater protection than a daughter? Why then do we parade our young girls around the public in bikini tops and low-cut shorts, tempting the lewd and base people of every society? We wouldn't leave our cars open and unprotected would we? We either lock them up or attend them. I'm saying our girls deserve no less. Cover them up, stand close to them, or leave them at home.

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But because they're so lovey-dovey close and love covering so much, when Uncle rapes his third victim you just cover it up and let him move onto the next one! Yaaaay, covering!

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So, When I was an ultra-conservative fundie Catholic girl who never wore anything remotely immodest, yet I was violently assulted and very nearly murdered ... what do they have to say about that? Goodness, could rape be about power and control and hate, and have nothing to do with lust? This isn't a new idea, so I guess those bitties at LAF have their head even farther up their asses then I thought possible...

*Can't spell. So mad. Sorry for anything else I missed.

* How the HELL did I end up with one of those whistle smilies in the middle of that!?!

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Is that Mrs Sherman the beloved Queen of Pink Cabbage Roses and Glitter, Lady Lydia? She who says it takes her a month to clean a closet?

Yeah, she's really with it on statistics isn't she?

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Her argument about leaving something unlocked is a fail anyway. The car analogy would more like, if you don't want your car stolen, keep a cover on it.

But of course, that would sound just as ridiculous as LAF's current stand.

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I was reading through the responses...

Mrs. Sherman:

Radical feminists are always screaming that they are of greater value than housewives and mothers and homemakers---they claim that they have a brain, and that they are intelligent. What is there about the hooker clothing that these girls wear that says "I am intelligent" or "I have a degree"?

Further proof she's quite ignorant.

I have a college degree I'm quite modest in dress. Some of my outfits would pass in the world of fashionable fundiedom. And I'm sure there are plenty of intelligent, degree holders here who don't dress like hookers.

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I was reading through the responses...

Mrs. Sherman:

Further proof she's quite ignorant.

I have a college degree I'm quite modest in dress. Some of my outfits would pass in the world of fashionable fundiedom. And I'm sure there are plenty of intelligent, degree holders here who don't dress like hookers.

I live in jeans and sweatshirts and I'm an intelligent mother who's also a degree holder. I haven't dressed like a hooker in quite a few years, and then it was for a Halloween party.

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I'm a lifelong atheist (though my parents did their best to fundie-fy me) and I've only gotten more conservative in dress as an adult. Aside from the green hair, I wouldn't be out of place at a fundie convention most of the time. I seriously doubt these women would know I'm an Evil Atheist (eek!) just looking at me, and as I'm also plump I don't think I'm especially "rape-able".... and yet I have been raped.

Wouldn't be caught dead in a denim jumper, though.

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It is less extreme, but it is basically the same idea as Wahhabi Islam.

Also, our government does not legislate it; that is an important difference. For instance, rape victims are not punished here the way they are in Saudi Arabia.

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I was reading through the responses...

Mrs. Sherman:

:lol: I don't know many feminists, much less radical feminists who wear bright red lipstick and go-go boots!

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Ok, couple of points:

1- Oh NO, not again! Women are responsible for any sexual assault committed against them .Ok, got it. Not AGAIN!

2- I am positive rape didn't occur less in former times, just it wasn't reported. POSITIVE.

3- I have a degree (well, in 2 months;)), I speak 5 languages and guess what, sometimes I like to dress sexy. To dress up when I go out. Not like a hooker, but with class, but still sexy.

4-My father molested me through my childhood. Now is that because my mother dressed me in those slutty little clothes for 3-year-olds, or maybe because he is sick?!

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Mrs. Sherman - Girls aren't cars. Women aren't objects. That is all.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Right after I got done thinking, "Wow, these people really hate girls. Probably women, too, but especially girls."

I also noticed Chancey's use of the phrase "held accountable." She suggests that, since rape is no longer punishable by the death penalty,* rapists are no longer "held accountable," but before that she also says that if a woman "plays the harlot" she is to be "held accountable." Nice.

If they think girls have no value as actual, functioning humans, why are they so intent on protecting them from harm? Oh, that's right, they don't care if they are harmed, just if they are damaged.

*Also, the whole treating hypothetical rapists as monsters who need to be killed (or castrated or shunned or tortured, etc.--see any dialogue on Law and Order SVU) really just encourages people to minimize rapes that actually happen. Because if the actual rapist is a respected member of the community, or even just not a monster from another planet, people really don't want to kill (or castrate or shun or torture, etc.) that person. So instead of recognizing that people can appear to be generally good people and still commit a horrible crime, they just come up with reasons why that rape didn't count. And counter to what Chancey seems to think, blaming the victim is still the loophole of choice today.

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This whole attitude is totally sickening, and her idea of Mennonite/Amish etc. communities as being more pure is so wrong it's not even funny anymore!

And this sentence just baffled me:

"The death penalty for rape was carried out until our more "enlightened" times dictated that a man couldn't be held accountable for rape."

First it seems that she blames women for being raped (poor men can't control themselves you know), but then she seems to totally contradict herself and say that it's so bad men AREN'T held accountable anymore. I am confused! What does she want!? Ooh yes, ppl to wear long dresses and be demure, and any twisting of the truth will do for that!

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Umm, it's still theft if I leave my car unlocked, with the keys in it even, and someone who doesn't own it drives off with it. A poor decision on the part of the victim does not negate the criminality of another's action.

'Lady' Lydia is so dumb, it makes me think she needs the cover of her headship or whatever wacky terminology they have for it.

I don't dress (IMO) like a harlot, though I would earn a frequent "Uh oh!" from that Fish with Trish lunatic. I like my tops that show a hint of cleavage, and form-fitting dresses. If someone can't recognize that I'm both quite bright and have great breasts, I don't see that as my problem. Women don't have to choose between being valued as sexy and valued as something else (intelligent, moral, domestic, even) in the normal world.

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Also the comparison with the car is not accurate. The only thing it could be compared to is a woman lying out on the streets naked, her legs wide spread. Which STILL doesn't give anyone the right to do anything to her.

Sorry for the mental image, but that's a lame comparison.

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I was raised Mennonite. There is NOT a lower incident of assualts among the plain people, there's a higher rate of hiding abuse AND demanding that victims "forgive" their rapists.

This is precisely why the Slut Walks got started. You can be a SLUT...and you still do NOT deserve to get raped.

She's also slighly off on her chivarly interpretation. WHITE women were protected from allegations of violating their honor, from BLACK and JEWISH men. If the assault come from her own home, or usually even from a random white man, then she was a whore and a liar. If the woman was not white, then it didn't matter what happened to her in the first place.

A Century of Childhood is a fascinating read on the reality of what life was like in "the golden ages." Sexual play and sexual assault was common for children up until they reached puberty and it would become obvious that someone had assaulted a girl via pregnancy and when boys reached full manhood upon entering their aprenticeship and were free to screw any woman they wanted so assaulting them became less common.

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Patsy: But because they're so lovey-dovey close and love covering so much, when Uncle rapes his third victim you just cover it up and let him move onto the next one! Yaaaay, covering!

This.

chaotic life: I was raised Mennonite. There is NOT a lower incident of assualts among the plain people, there's a higher rate of hiding abuse AND demanding that victims "forgive" their rapists.

and this.

When I was younger, I used to dress like a boy, buttoned collared shirts, jeans, tennis shoes. Nothing about my appearance gave off a 'Come hither, I'm a harlot' vibe. Yet, I was raped. It had nothing to do with what I was wearing.

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I wonder what prompted Mrs. Chancey & Mrs. Sherman to broach this subject.

Somebody in their circles crying "rape", perhaps?

It's curious that it more or less synchs with the nauseating news coming out about Jerry Sandusky at Penn State. In the Chancey/Sherman universe, are young men ever sexually violated? If so, were they behaving in a slutty, provocative, immodest manner to deserve it?

I remember when you-all discussed Kristina's statement that only women who "asked for it" were attacked. And it occurs to me that maybe 3 babies under 18 months of age is God's way of keeping Kristina and her stupid pronouncements off teh webz for awhile. (Thank you, Ma'am! ... Now: Any way to booger up the LAF site? No? OK, got it: The responsibilty is ours to speak against it. We're on it. Amen.) :)

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