Fundamentalism and Child Abuse

[Liza]

I have been wondering why corporal punishment seems to be so prevalent in Fundamentalist Churches given the information we now have about the harm that it does.   

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundamentalistparenting/2017/05/1205/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/valerie-tarico/religion-child-abuse_b_858996.html

 

Comments?

Above is an IFB church ... at + 2 minutes the pastor talks about how to inflict pain on infants.  Soo sick.

[Anonymousguest]

They believe the Bible instructs them to use corporal punishment. They take the rod verses in Proverbs literally and believe that children cannot be saved without spanking.  Some of the child training gurus go so far as to say kids need to be spanked to relieve them from the guilt of their sin. 

This sermon from Vodie Baucham should give you an idea of the philosophy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/01/12/transcript-of-voddie-bauchams-child-training-sermon-at-hardin-baptist-church/amp/

[Palimpsest]

Also a lot of them use Michael Pearl's vile book "To Train Up A Child."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pearl

[Terrie]

In their minds, it doesn't matter what science says. The Bible is God and says to smack your kids. Plus, it fits in nicely with their authoritarian world view.

[delphinium65]

29 minutes ago, Terrie said:

Plus, it fits in nicely with their authoritarian world view.

It does, and it creates a LOT of unintended abuse, i.e. abusive behavior done with the best possible intentions.  Parents are told that they cannot trust science, they cannot trust the advice of their own parents, they can't even trust their own parenting instincts, but if they follow the Bible they will get the desired result.  Most new parents are relatively clueless when it comes to taking care of new tiny humans, and may be desperate for a guaranteed way of raising their children.  Even a very loving mother or father may engage in abusive behavior, all the while believing that it is in the best interest of the child(ren) being spanked/beaten/otherwise abused.  

Of course, there are those who are just assholes to begin with, and will happily take the excuse to hit their kids.  Either way, the standard 'Biblical' advice is not helpful! 

[chaotic life]

My father was physically abusive when I was growing up, a fact my narcissistic mother exploited and manipulated.

After I was grown he hurt one of my siblings and it opened his eyes. I don’t know why it was different then before but I know it brought him to his knees, literally and figuratively. He told me he finally understood that there was not biblical mandate that obligated him to spank afterall. He was a Mennonite minister. He was in his 50s before he realized that fact.

He went to therapy to relearn how to parent without abuse, apologized to his children and made restitution.

People used to ask me why I was willing to forgive him and repair relationship and not my mother when he was the more physically abusive parent. This was why. His abuse was only physical for the most part and very much this misguided moral obligation. And he corrected it and apologized sincerely. She never did.

In fact, the point he stopped participating and would not hurt his kids ever again is when things started falling apart. It became impossible to manipulate him and make him look like the monster when he learned healthy behaviors.

I often wonder what it would have been like if he had overcome his religious training when I was a child. Mostly I am just glad my younger siblings have no memories of him being that person.

[AliceInFundyland]

@chaotic life This speaks to me so much right now. As I have referenced elsewhere, I don’t speak my dad. Nine years in the fall. He was emotionally/psychologically abusive. I could let go of so much and forgive so much if he could move an inch from the rigidity that got us to this place...

Misguided moral obligation is an interesting but apt word choice him too.He’s very legalistic b/w fundie liberal vegetarian atheist. His way or no way.

I even spelled out what I needed from him to ever move forward. I’ve never heard back,

You have an interesting family. (No snark.) I’m glad you’re back and posting again. I’ve enjoyed your posts since I came aboard.

[chaotic life]

AliceinFundyland I have very little contact with my mother for similar reasons. It’s been 8 years and the closest I ever got from her was I am sorry I was codependent and let your father get me to be a bad mother.

Mostly I am not here though. Afraid I am stalked here as surely as anywhere else I once was online. Someday the long reaching tendrils of abuse will cease to impact every part of my world but I am not there yet.

What did strike me about my father’s revelation was that he never WANTED to hit us. He genuinely thought he was sinning if he did not hit us. And it took a great deal to overcome that programming.

Sadly, my father was raised secular Jew. It was his own abusive background that made him so susceptible to that religious message and an abusive narcissist who manipulated and exploited that message. Lovely conversion story lemme tellya.

[usedbicycle]

Physical abuse is meant to instill fear, and that's the only way fundies think they can avoid sinning. Fear of getting hit for the children, and fear of Hell (and God!) for everyone else. 

They share a really sad worldview, in which people only act morally because they fear the "rod", or because the Bible says to act a certain way.

As an atheist, I often have Christian friends ask me how I'm such a good person even though I don't believe in Hell. They tell me that if they didn't have to worry about pleasing God, they'd be afraid of what they might do.

 

[Briefly]

18 hours ago, chaotic life said:

My father was physically abusive when I was growing up, a fact my narcissistic mother exploited and manipulated.

After I was grown he hurt one of my siblings and it opened his eyes. I don’t know why it was different then before but I know it brought him to his knees, literally and figuratively. He told me he finally understood that there was not biblical mandate that obligated him to spank afterall. He was a Mennonite minister. He was in his 50s before he realized that fact.

He went to therapy to relearn how to parent without abuse, apologized to his children and made restitution.

People used to ask me why I was willing to forgive him and repair relationship and not my mother when he was the more physically abusive parent. This was why. His abuse was only physical for the most part and very much this misguided moral obligation. And he corrected it and apologized sincerely. She never did.

In fact, the point he stopped participating and would not hurt his kids ever again is when things started falling apart. It became impossible to manipulate him and make him look like the monster when he learned healthy behaviors.

I often wonder what it would have been like if he had overcome his religious training when I was a child. Mostly I am just glad my younger siblings have no memories of him being that person.

I'm glad that he was able to make those changes and that he apologized for real.  I'm sorry your mom never did.

[Shiny]

Lori Alexander, who is a monster, said that spanking is biblical because it teaches children that sin is pain. I assume this is what many of these people believe, despite all evidence to the contrary. 

 

[Liza]

On 7/3/2018 at 11:59 AM, Palimpsest said:

lso a lot of them use Michael Pearl's vile book "To Train Up A Child."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/i

@PalimpsestYes, it is vile and sick.  Many people signed petitions to get it off the shelves, but .. free speech ya know.

10 hours ago, Shiny said:

Lori Alexander, who is a monster, said that spanking is biblical because it teaches children that sin is pain. I assume this is what many of these people believe, despite all evidence to the contrary. 

@Shiny   This picture says it all for me.  Lori's view of children is sick and twisted.  In fact, many of the images Lori puts up say a lot about her own cruel and viciious nature.  

[CyborgKin]

On 7/4/2018 at 1:30 AM, Anonymousguest said:

Some of the child training gurus go so far as to say kids need to be spanked to relieve them from the guilt of their sin. 

And that's how you train people to self-harm when they feel guilty.

[Liza]

14 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

On 7/3/2018 at 11:30 AM, Anonymousguest said:

ome of the child training gurus go so far as to say kids need to be spanked to relieve them from the guilt of their sin. 

And that's how you train people to self-harm when they feel guilty.

@CyborgKin   I feel dense asking this question, how does this train people to self-harm?    thanks.

[CyborgKin]

10 hours ago, Liza said:

@CyborgKin   I feel dense asking this question, how does this train people to self-harm?    thanks.

By establishing a pattern that guilt (or failure or disappointment of parents) always leads to pain, which resolves the situation.  Once spanking stops, the learned psychological expectation is still there, leaving the person feeling a need for that pain and possibly turning to providing it themself.